The US Elections

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:35

... and Roseanne.

No, really.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Hahaha, epic. John Goodman for VP.

Cavey · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:37

... Only in America, eh.
Incredible.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Captain Caveman wrote:

... Only in America, eh.
Incredible.

Dude, they've already had an actor, a playboy and a village idiot running the country.

We're not much better.

Cavey · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:47

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

Captain Caveman wrote:

... Only in America, eh.
Incredible.

Dude, they've already had an actor, a playboy and a village idiot running the country.

We're not much better.

Fair point!

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:48

Hang on, she's also a nominee for the Green Party: http://www.gp.org/committees/pcsc/

They've got three

What's going on there?

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:49

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

Captain Caveman wrote:

... Only in America, eh.
Incredible.

Dude, they've already had an actor, a playboy and a village idiot running the country.

That sounds like the best Village People tribute act, ever.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:49

predicting kern will be along to explain how it all works.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Grim... wrote:

Hang on, she's also a nominee for the Green Party: http://www.gp.org/committees/pcsc/

They've got three

What's going on there?

democracy!

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 13:20

Looks like they asked their convention in July to pick one official candidate from a choice of three.

Of course, getting onto the ballot is another matter: each state has its own rules on ballot access and usually if you aren't from the big 2 the system is set against you (from what I remember).

Pedants can point out that in November yanks will only be choosing electors to elect the president later in the year, but we'll save that for another time.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 13:23

It's immaterial anyway, as come November yanks will only be choosing electors to elect the president later in the year.

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 13:24

Pedant.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49252

MaliA wrote:

It's imamterial anyway

What, only relevant to Muslim clerics?

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Well, true Mali. But what's particularly interesting is the fact that the electoral college doesn't actually have to vote for the candidate that got the majority vote in that state. I'm not aware of any instance where the electoral college has exercised their right to vote for whoever they damn well please, though, and can't be arsed to wiki to find out.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 13:28

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

Well, true Mali. But what's particularly interesting is the fact that the electoral college doesn't actually have to vote for the candidate that got the majority vote in that state. I'm not aware of any instance where the electoral college has exercised their right to vote for whoever they damn well please, though, and can't be arsed to wiki to find out.

L-LOL

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

That said, I just wiki'd, and 24 states have passed laws against "faithless electors", so some of the electoral college members must have been very naughty electors indeed in the past.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Yowsers - if it's a tie the selection of President would then be decided by a ballot of the House of Representatives.

I mean, I know democracy is the least worst system and all that (props to the big man), but this is just shit.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 13:32

Americans are always 200 years behind. It's why we view them such affection. We toss a coin, don't we?

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6653

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

That said, I just wiki'd, and 24 states have passed laws against "faithless electors"...

\
Yeah, well fuck you too Arkansas.

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

Anyone tried the BBC predictor yet? Holds would give Obama 347/191, but that's clearly not going to happen. The experts are all over the place, although mostly coming down on Obama's side. Looking at the race objectively, I think this is going to be very tight and Romney actually has a good chance of pulling off a win. A hell of a lot also seems to be riding on Florida and its 29 points.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 15:05

I think it is time for Obama to go. He's been a disappointment.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

MaliA wrote:

I think it is time for Obama to go. He's been a disappointment.

Well, that may be so, but when the alternative is a raving lunatic who hates poor people and wants to roll back women's rights (compulsory rape with a transvaginal ultrasound if you want to have an abortion, anyone?) I'd rather be merely disappointed.

Unless Roseanne gets elected, of course.

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 15:19

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

MaliA wrote:

I think it is time for Obama to go. He's been a disappointment.

Well, that may be so, but when the alternative is a raving lunatic who hates poor people and wants to roll back women's rights (compulsory rape with an transvaginal ultrasound, anyone?) I'd rather be merely disappointed.

Unless Roseanne gets elected, of course.

So very many times :this:

All things consideted, Im not disappointed in him more than the American system.

sdg · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 15:34

There was an interesting piece in new scientist this week which basically said its Obamas without a doubt, based on stats and forecasts carried out which haven't been wrong in the last five elections or something.

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

Too many people counting chickens, I'd say. Plus lots of people in swing states seem to be being blocked from the vote, which doesn't bode well.

As for Obama being a disappointment, that's hardly surprising given that those outside of the US don't realise how conservative the Democrats are and, in particular, how conservative Obama is, along with the simple fact the GoP's blocked practically everything Obama's tried to do, including things they've agreed with. A GoP win would be the worst possible ending to this election, because it would confirm that abhorrent tactics are the way to win. What I'd love to see is the GoP get utterly thumped, regroup, boot out the tea party idiots and become a party that actually has some ethics and reason.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 15:55

Possibly stupidest of all is that Romney is essentially quite the centrist, but has been pushed into right-wing fanatic mode by his party.

Cavey · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 16:04

CraigGrannell wrote:

As for Obama being a disappointment, that's hardly surprising given that those outside of the US don't realise how conservative the Democrats are and, in particular, how conservative Obama is,

Being a conservative isn't a precursor for failure you know, Craig. In fact, empirically speaking and from my perspective at least, actually the inverse is far more likely to be true.

Still, as a mere "little c", fairly progressive, 'One Nation' conservative, the Republican Party is an amoral anathma, although Obama has been a terrible disappointment I feel? I'm sure those factors you mention do indeed come into play, but still. I'd be happier if I could see a burning ideology; a political soul if you will - even some good old joined up thinking - but frankly, pretty all I've heard are impressive-sounding speeches and platitudes, and unfulfilled promises, most notably on the economic and foreign policy fronts. The 'Wall St Guys' are surely still very much in the driving seat, here in 2012, Guantanamo Bay remains open for business and the US has been more hostile towards the likes of Iran than ever before, under his watch. The distinct lack of US leadership over the Libyan debacle was also notable, and the Israel/Palestine issue appears to have very much moved further backwards, with all the attendant sabre-rattling, resettlement and so on and so forth. Above all, Obama appears somewhat ineffectual? The world is, I think, a more dangerous and impoverished place than it was?

All of that said, Romney's numerous, inexplicable gaffes must seem like manna from Heaven to the Obama campaign.

sdg · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 16:12

the US position on Libya was carefully considered was it not, to try to put an end to the habit of the US powering into very situation and instead sitting back and letting the UN and NATO do it with the proper procedures and input of all members being taken into account and as little us meddling as possible. As for G.bay, that's disappointing but I think the problem there is he gets elected and is then told, well theses are the people we've got, what are you going to do with them instead and are you prepared to stand up in front of the world and explain yourself when one of them commits a terrorist act. He seems to have been backed into a bit of a corner there-he wouldn't have created the Guantanamo situation but now it's there, how do you get away from it?

Cavey · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 16:19

sdg wrote:

the US position on Libya was carefully considered was it not, to try to put an end to the habit of the US powering into very situation and instead sitting back and letting the UN and NATO do it with the proper procedures and input of all members being taken into account and as little us meddling as possible. As for G.bay, that's disappointing but I think the problem there is he gets elected and is then told, well theses are the people we've got, what are you going to do with them instead and are you prepared to stand up in front of the world and explain yourself when one of them commits a terrorist act. He seems to have been backed into a bit of a corner there-he wouldn't have created the Guantanamo situation but now it's there, how do you get away from it?

I guess from my POV, don't claim you're going to close Guantanamo Bay if you don't have a handle on what this would (supposedly) entail. But for me, the biggest disappointment lies within the economic arena, both in terms of the very patchy, weak, largely non-manufacturing based recovery and in particular, how bankers still appear to feature so strongly in the administration. I worry that far too little, if anything, has really changed on that front.

I guess that, very broadly speaking, I'm looking towards America for geo-political leadership, but not really finding it? Some pretty major stuff has happened to the world from 2008 on, requiring (I believe) some fundamental rewrites on how we all do stuff. But there again, as others have quite rightly said, before getting too carried away with such perceived disappointments, one has to consider the alternative on offer...

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49252

Captain Caveman wrote:

CraigGrannell wrote:

As for Obama being a disappointment, that's hardly surprising given that those outside of the US don't realise how conservative the Democrats are and, in particular, how conservative Obama is,

Being a conservative isn't a precursor for failure you know, Craig. In fact, empirically speaking and from my perspective at least, actually the inverse is far more likely to be true.

No, but those who view themselves as liberals thought that the US had elected a liberal, because he was the democrat candidate.

Cavey · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 16:29

Craster wrote:

Captain Caveman wrote:

CraigGrannell wrote:

As for Obama being a disappointment, that's hardly surprising given that those outside of the US don't realise how conservative the Democrats are and, in particular, how conservative Obama is,

Being a conservative isn't a precursor for failure you know, Craig. In fact, empirically speaking and from my perspective at least, actually the inverse is far more likely to be true.

No, but those who view themselves as liberals thought that the US had elected a liberal, because he was the democrat candidate.

I'm not disputing it mate, but as Craig says, that's only because those people don't know that the Democratic Party is actually a centre-right political entity, arguably closer to our own Conservative Party than is the Republican Party, which is exceedingly right wing, particularly in social welfare terms. (Far, far too much so, in my own opinion)

Squirt · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6653

Craster wrote:

Captain Caveman wrote:

CraigGrannell wrote:

As for Obama being a disappointment, that's hardly surprising given that those outside of the US don't realise how conservative the Democrats are and, in particular, how conservative Obama is,

Being a conservative isn't a precursor for failure you know, Craig. In fact, empirically speaking and from my perspective at least, actually the inverse is far more likely to be true.

No, but those who view themselves as liberals thought that the US had elected a liberal, because he was the democrat candidate.

I think there were plenty of people who were expecting him to turn the US into Sweden or something, whereas he hasn't done that at all, or ever said he would.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Squirt wrote:

Craster wrote:

Captain Caveman wrote:

CraigGrannell wrote:

As for Obama being a disappointment, that's hardly surprising given that those outside of the US don't realise how conservative the Democrats are and, in particular, how conservative Obama is,

Being a conservative isn't a precursor for failure you know, Craig. In fact, empirically speaking and from my perspective at least, actually the inverse is far more likely to be true.

No, but those who view themselves as liberals thought that the US had elected a liberal, because he was the democrat candidate.

I think there were plenty of people who were expecting him to turn the US into Sweden or something, whereas he hasn't done that at all, or ever said he would.

He said "yes we can", dude. YES WE CAN. If that doesn't mean promising to turn the US into a liberal socialist utopia then I don't know what does.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 17:13

We should install a govener in there once moor. On the grounds that they tried it and done it wrong.

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

Captain Caveman wrote:

I'm not disputing it mate, but as Craig says, that's only because those people don't know that the Democratic Party is actually a centre-right political entity

But that's entirely my point. Many people outside of the USA are suggesting Obama's a disappointment because his administration has been quite conservative, and yet Democratic Party politics roughly map to the Tories in the UK. Lots of people in UK, for example, hear left/right from US commentators and assume Dem/GoP is like (old) Labour/Tories, when the reality is very different.

As for ineffectual, perhaps, but, as I said, he's been blocked at every turn by an absolutely insane GoP, which seriously needs to be taken down a peg or two. The USA is heading towards becoming a banana republic, and a Romney win would only cement tactics that have been used these past few years.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 17:28

I'm happy to accept Kern's take on it
i think I'd learn a lot by listening to him.

Cavey · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 17:41

CraigGrannell wrote:

Captain Caveman wrote:

I'm not disputing it mate, but as Craig says, that's only because those people don't know that the Democratic Party is actually a centre-right political entity

But that's entirely my point. Many people outside of the USA are suggesting Obama's a disappointment because his administration has been quite conservative, and yet Democratic Party politics roughly map to the Tories in the UK. Lots of people in UK, for example, hear left/right from US commentators and assume Dem/GoP is like (old) Labour/Tories, when the reality is very different.

Sorry, I thought the premise of your original post was that this disappointment stemmed from an actual lack of perceived performance, because he's essentially a conservative (and therefore bound to fail), as opposed to simply an (unfounded) expectation of him to enact left of centre policies etc. My mistake; must be my persecution complex setting in again.

In that case, I pretty much agree with you.

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 18:34

Remember, of course, that a US President is domestically less powerful than the British Prime Minister. The PM, after all, is (usually) backed by a majority in the Commons that lasts the whole term. Whoever gets into the White House can't guarantee that even his party will support him in the House or the Senate, and with the whole House up for grabs every two years, alongside a third of the Senate, he can quickly find himself a very isolated individual indeed.

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 18:45

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

That said, I just wiki'd, and 24 states have passed laws against "faithless electors", so some of the electoral college members must have been very naughty electors indeed in the past.

The thing people forget about the farce in 2000 was that it would have been perfectly constitutional for the Florida state legislature to pick the electors itself (which I think it might have done, but don't want to look up the reference out of fear of picking old wounds).

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 18:51

Craster wrote:

No, but those who view themselves as liberals thought that the US had elected a liberal, because he was the democrat candidate.

Back in 2008 I commented that there was something amusing that Obama was the candidate for the traditional party of slavery. Now it's even more amusing that not only do we have that irony, but Romney is the candidate for a party that was founded to combat two perceived evils: slavery and Mormonism*

*(ok, so technically it was slavery and polygamy, but there was only one group notorious for it back in the 1850s...)

Pundabaya · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5016

I already despise the Mitt-head.

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2012 21:44

Obligatory US-politics-themed-Animaniacs-song-of-awesomeness:

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

Little known fact: The Republican candidate was born to German parents, who refused to give him a name. Instead forcing him to, at all times, stand next to his brother, Romney. They would then refer to him as such.

Hence, Mitt Romney. Poor kid.

I'll get my coat.

Cavey · **Posted:** Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:33

Comical!

Welcome back mate, I was wondering where you'd got to.

Plissken · **Posted:** Fri Oct 05, 2012 13:15

As mentioned, many people expected Obama to turn the US into Sweden.

If you listen to the Republicans, he's been busy turning it into the Soviet Union.

Dimrill · **Posted:** Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:33

Somewhat related: #ixzz28vg7mm5M" class="postlink">Anti-abortion Congressman pressured his mistress to have an abortion. Bohhhhhhhhhh.

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

Dimrill wrote:

Somewhat related: #ixzz28vg7mm5M" class="postlink">Anti-abortion Congressman pressured his mistress to have an abortion. Bohhhhhhhhhh.

I'm sure he'll wriggle out of that somehow and continue the seemingly relentless GoP charge. The polling right now is insane, and Romney's bounding towards making this election a 50/50. I really hope Obama kicks some serious arse at the next debate.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49252

This one's a beaut.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/10/08/a ... -children/

Quote:

A man running as a Republican for State Representative in Arkansas published a book in which he endorses the death penalty for rebellious children and much, much more.

In his book “God’s Law: The Only Political Solution,” published in April, former Arkansas Department of Human Services attorney Charlie Fuqua explains that he supports killing wayward kids because that’s what a Bronze Age tribe did in his favorite religious text.

“The maintenance of civil order in society rests on the foundation of family discipline,” he wrote, according to an excerpt published by The Arkansas Times. “Therefore, a child who disrespects his parents must be permanently removed from society in a way that gives an example to all other children of the importance of respect for parents. The death penalty for rebellioius children is not something to be taken lightly. The guidelines for administering the death penalty to rebellious children are given in Deut 21:18-21.”

He goes on to write: “Even though this procedure would rarely be used, if it were the law of land, it would give parents authority. Children would know that their parents had authority and it would be a tremendous incentive for children to give proper respect to their parents.”

Fuqua’s run is being bankrolled by established Republicans in the state, including the party itself and the House Republican Leadership PAC. Spokeswoman Katherine Vasilos told Raw Story in an email that the Republican Party of Arkansas had no plans to make financial contributions to Fuqua in the future.

In his book, Fuquoa also expresses his opposition to paying minimum wage, funding public education and what he calls the “Muslim problem,” which he believes could be dealt with by expelling all the Muslims from America. He adds that prisoners who cannot be rehabilitated within two years should just be executed to save money.

And in a diatribe published to his campaign website, Fuqua explains that liberals and Muslims have formed a “strange alliance” around their links to the “antichrist,” because, as he explains, “they both deny that Jesus is God in the flesh of man, and the savior of mankind. They both also hold that their cause should take over the entire world through violent, bloody, revolution. Both want to end freedom of speech so that their doctrine cannot be criticized. Neither can survive in a free marketplace of ideas.”

Curiosity · **Posted:** Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:54

I am choosing to believe that the media are playing up Romney's chances because the story of underwhelming but sensible bloke just about beating millionaire psychopath as expected doesn't equate to clicks.

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:43

Dimrill wrote:

Somewhat related: #ixzz28vg7mm5M" class="postlink">Anti-abortion Congressman pressured his mistress to have an abortion. Bohhhhhhhhhh.

I've not read the link, but while I'm all for women choosing what to do with their babies, I'd have real issues if someone wanted to abort one of mine.

Be Excellent To Each Other

The US Elections
Obama, Mitt...

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Be Excellent To Each Other

The US Elections Obama, Mitt...

Who is online

The US Elections
Obama, Mitt...