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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:31 
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MaliA wrote:
Language naturally evolves (to google, to tweet and so on) with their users, and although I do dislike sloppy use of English, I don't believe that crossing the particular Rubicon to the French method of language protection is the answer.

I totally agree. The thing is, much of our language evolution in the past was down to creative usage mixed with popular quirks. These days, you just have a lot of errors driving change. I hear about people arguing for plurals to include apostrophes (i.e. I have three book's in my bag), just because a lot of people use the apostrophe incorrectly. What we need is more basic language and grammar education in schools, alongside helping kids to be creative with what they write or type.

That might sound like an old git's ranting, but the point is to make yourself understood. Without clarity, language can fail; also, you shouldn't have to reread something a whole bunch of times in order to figure out what the context or meaning is.

So I'm quite happy with new words. I'm happy with the gradual evolution of language and written form. But it still pisses me off when I see a massive billboard advertising a "Sale on womens outfit's", because it's just flat-out wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:33 
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CraigGrannell wrote:
whole bunch

lol

I saw a car advert with 'less emissions' on it the other day. :(

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:33 
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We should putside the differences with the American version of English and attack the main cause of pain : Latin/French. Anglish shall prevail. It's much more fun, for a start.

http://anglish.wikia.com/wiki/Scorelore

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:47 
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MaliA wrote:
Alarm wrote:
Our American chums have some rather unusual Christian names like Buzz, Rock and Tag. Mind you, I expect some of ours sound odd.



Chuck Stetson is the best american name I've recently encountered.

Hi, I'm Ed Winchester.


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:03 
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22. Train station. My teeth are on edge every time I hear it. Who started it? Have they been punished? Chris Capewell, Queens Park, London


wtf? Can someone tell me the 'proper' word for a train station if not 'Train station'? King's Cross Station is a Train Station, not a Bus Station.

I don't understand how this is incorredt. :S

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:06 
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Craster wrote:
MaliA wrote:
it just isn't sports anymore.


Feex.

I get much more annoyed these days with people moaning about language changes and business speak than I ever did about the words themselves.

Language changes fine (subject to Craig's comments on mistakes driving the change, which I'd heard about too), but business speak? That can fuck off. It's not just using nouns as verbs that's so fucking stupid, it's not just the fact it makes you sound like a cunt, it's jsut making stuff up for the sake of opacity of language. Or indeed to create your own cliquey language for wankers in suits. Meaningless jibber jabber.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:12 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Meaningless jibber jabber.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:15 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Language changes fine (subject to Craig's comments on mistakes driving the change, which I'd heard about too), but business speak? That can fuck off. It's not just using nouns as verbs that's so fucking stupid, it's not just the fact it makes you sound like a cunt, it's jsut making stuff up for the sake of opacity of language. Or indeed to create your own cliquey language for wankers in suits. Meaningless jibber jabber.


:this: x several new paradigms.

The problem is, people use waffle to impress and to hide muddled thinking. If you can't explain your ideas clearly, you've not thought them through. Don't hide behind jargon and expect me to be impressed. I won't be. [/RANT]

I once went to an interview for a council role and was asked to present on a document the interviewers had recently produced on global warming. It was big, glossy, and each page had pictures of trees and happy children. Within its 60 pages, however, there was barely any discernible content hidden amongst all the waffle and business speak. Unsurprisingly, I drew their attention to this in my presentation, and didn't get the role.


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:20 
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The thing is, when most people complain about business jargon it's a reactionary response. When you look at it carefully, a lot of it (not all, by any means) makes excellent sense and is a good way of describing what you want.

I defy anyone to come up with a better way of describing a paradigm that doesn't use the word paradigm.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:21 
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Pod wrote:
Quote:
22. Train station. My teeth are on edge every time I hear it. Who started it? Have they been punished? Chris Capewell, Queens Park, London


wtf? Can someone tell me the 'proper' word for a train station if not 'Train station'? King's Cross Station is a Train Station, not a Bus Station.

I don't understand how this is incorredt. :S

:this:

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:22 
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Craster wrote:
The thing is, when most people complain about business jargon it's a reactionary response. When you look at it carefully, a lot of it (not all, by any means) makes excellent sense and is a good way of describing what you want.


Citation needed.

Quote:
I defy anyone to come up with a better way of describing a paradigm that doesn't use the word paradigm.

That's not business speak in and of itself, though. What's wrong with it is that it's a word that's massively misused and overused by business people.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:22 
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Craster wrote:
I defy anyone to come up with a better way of describing a paradigm that doesn't use the word paradigm.

Your face.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:23 

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Pod wrote:
Quote:
22. Train station. My teeth are on edge every time I hear it. Who started it? Have they been punished? Chris Capewell, Queens Park, London


wtf? Can someone tell me the 'proper' word for a train station if not 'Train station'? King's Cross Station is a Train Station, not a Bus Station.

I don't understand how this is incorredt. :S


Railway station.


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:24 
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I think there's a difference between using specialised language because it clearly explains what you're doing, and using words just because you think it makes you look smarter. But then, I suppose people would be very annoyed if they paid millions to a business consultant to be simply told they should cut costs and raise income.

As for pet hates, I never liked it when people would say that they wanted to 'liaise' with me about something. I'd prefer it if they just spoke to me about it.


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:27 
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Kern wrote:
I think there's a difference between using specialised language because it clearly explains what you're doing, and using words just because you think it makes you look smarter.

This is endemic though. I too often end read things where the writer's clearly thinking they are clever, due to using a thesaurus on every word and selecting the most complicated option. Something I ensure when I write for magazines is to keep things in plain, descriptive English; and, where possible, I attempt to minimise the number of ideas per sentence (thanks to Bill Bryson for that gem of a tip).


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:30 
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Full-sized aortic pumps, you say?


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:30 
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My personal favourite at the moment is someone who said of a deal we were trying to negotiate the final few points on - "we need to get everyone in the ham sandwich".

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:30 
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Full-sized aortic pumps, you say?


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:31 
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Malabelm wrote:
Full-sized aortic pumps, you say?


YOU say.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:31 
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Kern wrote:
I think there's a difference between using specialised language because it clearly explains what you're doing, and using words just because you think it makes you look smarter. But then, I suppose people would be very annoyed if they paid millions to a business consultant to be simply told they should cut costs and raise income.


Don't disagree with that. I do get very annoyed when people complain about business speak when it's the right tool for the job though. Or they complain about its misuse as if it's the fault of the words themselves rather than the idiots using them.

Quote:
As for pet hates, I never liked it when people would say that they wanted to 'liaise' with me about something. I'd prefer it if they just spoke to me about it.


Liaise has a different context though. "Please speak to Kern about X" implies something fairly short that can be addressed with a quick conversation. "Please liaise with Kern about X" suggests something longer term that could require you both to be working on something for a more extended period.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:32 
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Craster wrote:
I defy anyone to come up with a better way of describing a paradigm that doesn't use the word paradigm.


Example.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:34 

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Oh.... and conversation over:

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

Quote:
To begin with it has nothing to do with archaism, with the salvaging of obsolete words and turns of speech, or with the setting up of a "standard English" which must never be departed from. On the contrary, it is especially concerned with the scrapping of every word or idiom which has outworn its usefulness. It has nothing to do with correct grammar and syntax, which are of no importance so long as one makes one's meaning clear, or with the avoidance of Americanisms, or with having what is called a "good prose style." On the other hand, it is not concerned with fake simplicity and the attempt to make written English colloquial. Nor does it even imply in every case preferring the Saxon word to the Latin one, though it does imply using the fewest and shortest words that will cover one's meaning. What is above all needed is to let the meaning choose the word, and not the other way around. In prose, the worst thing one can do with words is surrender to them. When you think of a concrete object, you think wordlessly, and then, if you want to describe the thing you have been visualizing you probably hunt about until you find the exact words that seem to fit it. When you think of something abstract you are more inclined to use words from the start, and unless you make a conscious effort to prevent it, the existing dialect will come rushing in and do the job for you, at the expense of blurring or even changing your meaning. Probably it is better to put off using words as long as possible and get one's meaning as clear as one can through pictures and sensations. Afterward one can choose -- not simply accept -- the phrases that will best cover the meaning, and then switch round and decide what impressions one's words are likely to make on another person. This last effort of the mind cuts out all stale or mixed images, all prefabricated phrases, needless repetitions, and humbug and vagueness generally. But one can often be in doubt about the effect of a word or a phrase, and one needs rules that one can rely on when instinct fails. I think the following rules will cover most cases:

(i) Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.

(ii) Never us a long word where a short one will do.

(iii) If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.

(iv) Never use the passive where you can use the active.

(v) Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.

(vi) Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

These rules sound elementary, and so they are, but they demand a deep change of attitude in anyone who has grown used to writing in the style now fashionable. One could keep all of them and still write bad English, but one could not write the kind of stuff that I quoted in those five specimens at the beginning of this article.



All of which reminds me of this:

Image

and in turn my minds drifts back to the teenagers I've recently, like been working with who, like, never really, like, do a proper, like, sentence, yu nurr? Talking to a teacher chum last night, she's STILL failing children for SMS abbreviated language in homework. As if that hasn't been stamped out in the five or so years since I first heard of it.

The americanisation of English is a problem, because it is an onslaught from a massive, unregualted nation where the development of the language is driven influenced by the media and niche dialects get overexposed, such as hip-hop slang. The effect is worst when targeted at people who are just developing communication skills and learning language. I would prefer we went down the French route to prevent the reduction in English I fear is happening. There's no French-speaking US equivalent so their language is not threatened with too much quick, limiting change.


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:34 

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Oh.... and conversation over:

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

Quote:
To begin with it has nothing to do with archaism, with the salvaging of obsolete words and turns of speech, or with the setting up of a "standard English" which must never be departed from. On the contrary, it is especially concerned with the scrapping of every word or idiom which has outworn its usefulness. It has nothing to do with correct grammar and syntax, which are of no importance so long as one makes one's meaning clear, or with the avoidance of Americanisms, or with having what is called a "good prose style." On the other hand, it is not concerned with fake simplicity and the attempt to make written English colloquial. Nor does it even imply in every case preferring the Saxon word to the Latin one, though it does imply using the fewest and shortest words that will cover one's meaning. What is above all needed is to let the meaning choose the word, and not the other way around. In prose, the worst thing one can do with words is surrender to them. When you think of a concrete object, you think wordlessly, and then, if you want to describe the thing you have been visualizing you probably hunt about until you find the exact words that seem to fit it. When you think of something abstract you are more inclined to use words from the start, and unless you make a conscious effort to prevent it, the existing dialect will come rushing in and do the job for you, at the expense of blurring or even changing your meaning. Probably it is better to put off using words as long as possible and get one's meaning as clear as one can through pictures and sensations. Afterward one can choose -- not simply accept -- the phrases that will best cover the meaning, and then switch round and decide what impressions one's words are likely to make on another person. This last effort of the mind cuts out all stale or mixed images, all prefabricated phrases, needless repetitions, and humbug and vagueness generally. But one can often be in doubt about the effect of a word or a phrase, and one needs rules that one can rely on when instinct fails. I think the following rules will cover most cases:

(i) Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.

(ii) Never us a long word where a short one will do.

(iii) If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.

(iv) Never use the passive where you can use the active.

(v) Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.

(vi) Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

These rules sound elementary, and so they are, but they demand a deep change of attitude in anyone who has grown used to writing in the style now fashionable. One could keep all of them and still write bad English, but one could not write the kind of stuff that I quoted in those five specimens at the beginning of this article.



All of which reminds me of this:

Image

and in turn my minds drifts back to the teenagers I've recently, like been working with who, like, never really, like, do a proper, like, sentence, yu nurr? Talking to a teacher chum last night, she's STILL failing children for SMS abbreviated language in homework. As if that hasn't been stamped out in the five or so years since I first heard of it.

The americanisation of English is a problem, because it is an onslaught from a massive, unregualted nation where the development of the language is driven influenced by the media and niche dialects get overexposed, such as hip-hop slang. The effect is worst when targeted at people who are just developing communication skills and learning language. I would prefer we went down the French route to prevent the reduction in English I fear is happening. There's no French-speaking US equivalent so their language is not threatened with too much quick, limiting change.


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:35 
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GovernmentYard wrote:
Pod wrote:
Quote:
22. Train station. My teeth are on edge every time I hear it. Who started it? Have they been punished? Chris Capewell, Queens Park, London


wtf? Can someone tell me the 'proper' word for a train station if not 'Train station'? King's Cross Station is a Train Station, not a Bus Station.

I don't understand how this is incorredt. :S


Railway station.

:this:


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:36 
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Longines Symphonette wrote:
Craster wrote:
I defy anyone to come up with a better way of describing a paradigm that doesn't use the word paradigm.


Example.


Nope.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:38 
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Warhead wrote:
GovernmentYard wrote:
Pod wrote:
Quote:
22. Train station. My teeth are on edge every time I hear it. Who started it? Have they been punished? Chris Capewell, Queens Park, London


wtf? Can someone tell me the 'proper' word for a train station if not 'Train station'? King's Cross Station is a Train Station, not a Bus Station.

I don't understand how this is incorredt. :S


Railway station.

:this:

See, that shows how much language has changed even since I were a child. I couldn't see a problem with 'train station' until I saw the 'correct' term. I don't think I've used the term 'railway station' for about 15 years. :S

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:38 
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GovernmentYard wrote:


Orwell's essay should be required reading, really.


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:39 
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myoptikakaka wrote:
Warhead wrote:
GovernmentYard wrote:
Pod wrote:
Quote:
22. Train station. My teeth are on edge every time I hear it. Who started it? Have they been punished? Chris Capewell, Queens Park, London


wtf? Can someone tell me the 'proper' word for a train station if not 'Train station'? King's Cross Station is a Train Station, not a Bus Station.

I don't understand how this is incorredt. :S


Railway station.

:this:

See, that shows how much language has changed even since I were a child. I couldn't see a problem with 'train station' until I saw the 'correct' term. I don't think I've used the term 'railway station' for about 15 years. :S


Railway station is, of course, nonsensical unless you also expect to refer to the bus station as the road network station, or something equally ludicrous.

If you don't have a rigid structure to the language, and English sure as hell doesn't, you have to expect that it'll meander in its usage.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:40 
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Railroad, surely?


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:44 
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Some that are endemic in my profession at the moment:

Touch base – Just say “catch up”, “talk to” “speak to”

Circle back – or, less idiotically, “reply” or “get back to you on that”

“Push back on that”– Gnk. You mean “Say no”

“You need to take ownership of that point” - you mean “you’re responsible for this heap of shit”, but you’ve said it in such an empowering way that I don’t mind the fact you’ve given me a hospital pass (I did it myself! GAAAAH!)

“Do you have capacity/bandwidth to deal with that?” - you mean “Do you have time for this?”, but because you sound like such a cock the answer’s going to be no.

Going forward – Mega gnk.

Uncommercial – People use this to mean “being unreasonable”, when what they mean is “you’re not agreeing with me and I don’t like it”.

right-size/right-shoring – “we hope you won’t notice we mean downsizing or offshoring if we change the words to something more positive.”

To microlight - To skim through a powerpoint presentation, apparently.

Soup to nuts – I quite like this one, in all honesty – it’s an import from the States meaning “from start to finish”. Sounds a bit saucier than that.

To architect/transition/helm – Some fucking terrible examples of nouns being used as verbs. Far worse than “to impact on”, which is bad enough.

Helicopter view/holistic view/360-degree perspective – GAAAAH.

Sexify – This is used to mean adding pie charts and shit to Powerpoint presentations.

Catch a whale/walrus/elephant - bringing in a big deal or trophy client. SEE MY PENIS.

Thing is, this, largely, isn’t like Latin phrases used in law, where they get across a concept in far fewer words than if you did it in English, but instead it’s just wankery.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:46 
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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:50 

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Craster wrote:
Railway station is, of course, nonsensical unless you also expect to refer to the bus station as the road network station, or something equally ludicrous.


It's a station by which one accesses the railway, but you'll find you can get there by car, train, bus, bicycle, etc. Less so a bus station, which tends to only be walked to or bussed to.

Besides, there's more to language than "it evolves, deal with it" - there's onomatopoeia to consider along with other things. Train station is simplistic, lumpen and utterly without culture, romance or colour. Railway station is a far more evocative word and comes from the time such places were first built, has a grounding in history, has more value as an adjective than train.


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:52 
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GovernmentYard wrote:
Besides, there's more to language than "it evolves, deal with it" - there's onomatopoeia to consider along with other things. Train station is simplistic, lumpen and utterly without culture, romance or colour.


In that case St Pancras = Railway Station, East Croydon = Train Station.


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:55 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
“Push back on that”– Gnk. You mean “Say no”

Not when I'm instructing your Mother.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:56 
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I'm with Craster on the business-language point.

Sure, there are cretins who talk utter trash, but this is no new thing (remember the boss in Drop the Dead Donkey?).

Some of the ones in that article must be piss-takes though. Complaining that someone says 24/7 instead of "24 hours, 7 days a week". Seriously? Grow up!

Also, "It is what it is", is a fine phrase. certainly easier to say and convey meaning than, "At the end of the day, this situation has come about, and we have to take stock and plan based on the situation we are currently in, and not worry about the past".

Also, who complains about the use of the word 'leverage'. Fools. Fools complain about it, that's who.

"Deliverable". That's a sensible word. What's wrong wtih these people?

I can't even finish reading the article as there are too many idiots complaining about things they are too stupid to understand.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:56 
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Of course, I never said there was anything wrong with using Railway station, I just said it was nonsensical. Much of the English language is nonsensical, and it's all the more wonderful for it. However, a direct result of that is an inherent susceptibility to being mutable.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:57 
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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:58 
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Craster wrote:
Longines Symphonette wrote:
Craster wrote:
I defy anyone to come up with a better way of describing a paradigm that doesn't use the word paradigm.


Example.


Nope.


Yep.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:59 

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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Some that are endemic in my profession at the moment:

Touch base – Just say “catch up”, “talk to” “speak to”

Circle back – or, less idiotically, “reply” or “get back to you on that”

“Push back on that”– Gnk. You mean “Say no”

“You need to take ownership of that point” - you mean “you’re responsible for this heap of shit”, but you’ve said it in such an empowering way that I don’t mind the fact you’ve given me a hospital pass (I did it myself! GAAAAH!)

“Do you have capacity/bandwidth to deal with that?” - you mean “Do you have time for this?”, but because you sound like such a cock the answer’s going to be no.

Going forward – Mega gnk.

Uncommercial – People use this to mean “being unreasonable”, when what they mean is “you’re not agreeing with me and I don’t like it”.

right-size/right-shoring – “we hope you won’t notice we mean downsizing or offshoring if we change the words to something more positive.”

To microlight - To skim through a powerpoint presentation, apparently.

Soup to nuts – I quite like this one, in all honesty – it’s an import from the States meaning “from start to finish”. Sounds a bit saucier than that.

To architect/transition/helm – Some fucking terrible examples of nouns being used as verbs. Far worse than “to impact on”, which is bad enough.

Helicopter view/holistic view/360-degree perspective – GAAAAH.

Sexify – This is used to mean adding pie charts and shit to Powerpoint presentations.

Catch a whale/walrus/elephant - bringing in a big deal or trophy client. SEE MY PENIS.

Thing is, this, largely, isn’t like Latin phrases used in law, where they get across a concept in far fewer words than if you did it in English, but instead it’s just wankery.


Tell me honestly, how do you cope? Going forward is the one for me. Bullshit until rationalised, then utterly redundant unless you've got a DeLorean. I'd also argue downsizing and offshoring are management bollocks as well... when a union rep at Lloyds I always replaced offshoring with 'taking our jobs and giving them to people in Bangalore' and downsizing with 'making people redundant and getting computers or other staff to take on their work'.

I was once told that a percentage of my work was 'non-value added' which apparently meant that for a minority of my time I was only doing the stuff I was paid to do and not any extra stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:59 
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Longines Symphonette wrote:
Yep.


Well, no. Paradigm and example aren't synonyms at all. A paradigm is a method of approaching a particular situation, whether that be a default solution for a problem, or a way of thinking about eg. a business process.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:02 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
right-size/right-shoring – “we hope you won’t notice we mean downsizing or offshoring if we change the words to something more positive.”


Seizing on this as an example of you missing the point.

This is an example of people using weasel words and half-truths to project a more positive image of a negative situation. And you don't like that, so it pisses you off.

However, weasel words and half-truths are perfectly valid in the context of language. Indeed, the language would be poorer if it lacked an ability to project 'spin' on a particular message you're trying to give out. There's no abuse of language here, just people saying things you don't like.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:03 
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Craster wrote:
Longines Symphonette wrote:
Yep.


Well, no. Paradigm and example aren't synonyms at all. A paradigm is a method of approaching a particular situation, whether that be a default solution for a problem, or a way of thinking about eg. a business process.


OK, an exemplar.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:04 
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Longines Symphonette wrote:
OK, an exemplar.


That's much closer, but you looked it up, didn't you? I sure as hell did. So why's it a 'better' word than paradigm?

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:05 
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No, craster, because everyone still understands perfectly what it means. It's an example of people trying to be all clever and wordsmithy, but being wankers. Same as most business jargon. Which was someone's point

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:05 
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Craster wrote:
Longines Symphonette wrote:
OK, an exemplar.


That's much closer, but you looked it up, didn't you? I sure as hell did. So why's it a 'better' word than paradigm?


Because it's closer to exemplary which I would argue less people have to look up than paradigm.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:08 
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Craster wrote:
So why's it a 'better' word than paradigm?

Well, the X is worth 8 points for a start.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:08 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
No, craster, because everyone still understands perfectly what it means. It's an example of people trying to be all clever and wordsmithy, but being wankers. Same as most business jargon. Which was someone's point


Totally disagree. There are entire branches of linguistics dedicated to the use of positivity/negativity in language choices. If we took your view, we'd be putting speechwriters and journalists out of business.

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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:08 

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Curiosity wrote:
"Deliverable". That's a sensible word. What's wrong wtih these people?

I can't even finish reading the article as there are too many idiots complaining about things they are too stupid to understand.


But this shit about 'service delivery' is.... shit. We used to provide, give or perform services and now we deliver them, as if the service is just something we cart along and shove through a letterbox. Only, of course, if they are actionable. Because people who simply do things aren't leveraging their added value.

I am and always will be a railway passenger, not a train customer.


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:10 
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GovernmentYard wrote:
I am and always will be a railway passenger, not a train customer.


Tell that to the Revenue Protection Officer


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 Post subject: Re: americanism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:11 
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Longines Symphonette wrote:
Craster wrote:
Longines Symphonette wrote:
OK, an exemplar.


That's much closer, but you looked it up, didn't you? I sure as hell did. So why's it a 'better' word than paradigm?


Because it's closer to exemplary which I would argue less people have to look up than paradigm.


But did you know the word examplar existed? I didn't.

Also, it suggests a qualitive evaluation. If from the same root as the word examplary, it suggests that it's a 'very good' paradigm. Which isn't necessarily the case.

A shit exemplar comes across as an oxymoron. A shit paradigm doesn't.

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