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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 19:07 
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Anthony King & Ivor Crewe's superb work 'The Blunders of our Governments' is highly worth reading if you're into policy failure.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 19:09 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
I don't disagree with any of that Gaywood. A Tory theme seems to be the right basis for the idea, wrong implementation. Thatcher seemed to approach it like ripping off a plaster. Needed to be done, so do it fast.


She also didn't want to be the fourth prime minister in a row to be destroyed by the unions. Sandbrook, in his brilliant series on postwar history, notes that unlike attempting a big bang overhaul of union law, as Wilson and Heath tried, the Thatcher governments introduced changes step-by-step.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 20:04 
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Gogmagog

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https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/stat ... 6724999169




Hahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahaha. 11880 votes. Hahahahaha

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 20:07 
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Cavey wrote:
OK, a bit of a black-and-white statement from me (shurely not eh), but frankly, anyone who is "anti" gay marriage is an irrational bigot in my view and unfit for any kind of public office. End of.

Heh, I guess you've never seen the UK gay marriage vote breakdown by party then:

Conservative: 136 opposed, 127 in favour, 5 absentions
Labour: 22 opposed, 217 in favour
Lib Dem: 4 opposed, 44 in favour
Others: 10 opposed, 8 in favour

More than half of the entire Conservative MP base voted against gay marriage. In 2013, for fuck's sake. At least my MP wasn't one of them.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 20:08 
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Cavey wrote:
To be fair, Doc, I've said many, many times, including here just now, that I personally believe Thatcher went too far, too fast, and I am very critical of the fact that there was bugger all provided by way mitigation - shit man, it happened to me personally at the time, remember!
Aye, we've been over this ground before, and I thought I remembered this was largely your take too.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 20:14 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Cavey wrote:
OK, a bit of a black-and-white statement from me (shurely not eh), but frankly, anyone who is "anti" gay marriage is an irrational bigot in my view and unfit for any kind of public office. End of.

Heh, I guess you've never seen the UK gay marriage vote breakdown by party then:

Conservative: 136 opposed, 127 in favour, 5 absentions
Labour: 22 opposed, 217 in favour
Lib Dem: 4 opposed, 44 in favour
Others: 10 opposed, 8 in favour

More than half of the entire Conservative MP base voted against gay marriage. In 2013, for fuck's sake. At least my MP wasn't one of them.


Here's an interesting one - in the Lords, which you would expect to be more hidebound and socially conservative, the vote was 390-148 compared to the Commons' 396-172. There was actually marginally more support in the Lords.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 20:15 
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MaliA wrote:
https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/597468186724999169

Jesus Fucking Christ.

I do try to limit my use of the word cunt on the internet, but the only applicable description of George Galloway is that he's a staggering, enormous, irrecoverable cunting cunty cuntbag.

I expect the major argument of his legal challenge will be 'IT WAS A ZIONIST CONSPIRACY'.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 20:19 
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Gogmagog

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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
MaliA wrote:
https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/597468186724999169

Jesus Fucking Christ.

I do try to limit my use of the word cunt on the internet, but the only applicable description of George Galloway is that he's a staggering, enormous, irrecoverable cunting cunty cuntbag.

I expect the major argument of his legal challenge will be 'IT WAS A ZIONIST CONSPIRACY'.


quote.

Anyway, it should be part of public record so someone more enterprising than me will surely pick up the documents to to morrow.

I was surprised the courts were open over the weekend, too.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 20:21 
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The man is actually, legitimately mad. He's by all reasonable definitions a bloody terrorist.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:23 
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Gogmagog

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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
The man is actually, legitimately mad. He's by all reasonable definitions a bloody terrorist.


It is the only move he can now make, after such a kicking. He wins, it is a great victory over the conspiracy to keep him down, if he loses, the conspiracy is huge and he must fight harder, send money.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:20 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Cavey wrote:
OK, a bit of a black-and-white statement from me (shurely not eh), but frankly, anyone who is "anti" gay marriage is an irrational bigot in my view and unfit for any kind of public office. End of.

Heh, I guess you've never seen the UK gay marriage vote breakdown by party then:

Conservative: 136 opposed, 127 in favour, 5 absentions
Labour: 22 opposed, 217 in favour
Lib Dem: 4 opposed, 44 in favour
Others: 10 opposed, 8 in favour

More than half of the entire Conservative MP base voted against gay marriage. In 2013, for fuck's sake. At least my MP wasn't one of them.


Gah, that's an appalling bunch of stats. What can I say? I'm not going to defend the indefensible just because it happens to be Tory MPs doing it.

Ask yourself, Doc, why do I choose to be here and WoS beforehand, for 10 years, as a dissident (a rather polite way of putting it), rather than on some Tory dominated board, of which there are many? My life mirrors this board; all of my friends are Liberal types, I'm a dissident with them too! If you strip out economic policy beliefs, someone like me could easily and comfortably sit on the right flank of the Liberal Democrats. I don't know many Tories who are lifelong supporters of unilateral nuclear disarmament.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:30 
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Gogmagog

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So, what positives can we take for the next five years?

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:34 
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MaliA wrote:
So, what positives can we take for the next five years?


EU referendum finally putting the issue to bed for another 40 years.

Free vote on hunting, so a future Labour government can pacifiy rebellious MPs by another vote on a ban whenever they get into difficulty.

Expansion of Manchester-style devolution, and possible federal settlement?

No George Galloway (for now)


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:37 
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What's all that about, anyway?
Cameron: "One Nation blah de blah".

Right what shall we do first then lads? "bring back foxhunting, that'll get everyone on side".

For all their talk about how Labour were trying to make it a class war or something that seems like a symbolic gesture designed specifically to do just that.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:39 
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MaliA wrote:
So, what positives can we take for the next five years?


In a dreadful, perverse sort of way I guess we could hope that the Tories will show their true colours, and everyone's going to be like, 'Fuck, they're not getting in again, and what the hell were we thinking in 2015....'

The Lib Dems did actually keep some of their most psychotic tendencies in check, whereas this time they're going to be properly off the leash.

On top of that, Cameron's tiny majority means he's going to have to keep the rabid, snarling, anti-EU wing of his party happy somehow - which could have serious consequences.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:42 
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MaliA wrote:
So, what positives can we take for the next five years?


Economic competence. Hopefully.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:49 
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MaliA wrote:
So, what positives can we take for the next five years?


A Tory leadership election by 2020.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:53 
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Hearthly wrote:
In a dreadful, perverse sort of way I guess we could hope that the Tories will show their true colours, and everyone's going to be like, 'Fuck, they're not getting in again, and what the hell were we thinking in 2015....'


That approach didn't quite work in 1983, 1987 or 1992.

Quote:
On top of that, Cameron's tiny majority means he's going to have to keep the rabid, snarling, anti-EU wing of his party happy somehow - which could have serious consequences.


Tory hardliners might be anti-EU, rabid, and snarling, but that does not mean that anyone who is Eurosceptic or in favour of withdrawal is rabid and snarling (or even right wing).


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 9:59 
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We don't like that kind of logic around here Kern.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:03 
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Kern wrote:
Tory hardliners might be anti-EU, rabid, and snarling, but that does not mean that anyone who is Eurosceptic or in favour of withdrawal is rabid and snarling (or even right wing).

:blown:


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:15 
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The ink's barely dry on the ballot papers, yet I see Sturgeon is already noisily making demands about more devolution, more independence, more money, more jam infill for doughnuts... how very predictable. Apparently, it hasn't yet dawned on her that the SNP don't actually have any power whatsoever in Westminster, principally down to her own lamentable dual tactic of enraging English voters with talk of her party actively voting and forcing changes on English only matters, to such an extent that they voted Tory in droves, whilst simultaneously damaging her only potential ally, Labour, so fatally that no such coalition of powers is possible? Heh. She'll learn soon enough during the course of the next 5 years (and beyond, no doubt, once the Tories have completed their free hit at electoral boundary changes more or less guaranteeing perpetual Tory governments for the foreseeable)

"Act in haste, repent at leisure" right enough. Not for the first time, then, the SNP have been found woefully deficient in tactical terms.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:16 
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Kern wrote:
that does not mean that anyone who is Eurosceptic or in favour of withdrawal is rabid and snarling (or even right wing).


No, it doesn't, you're right. I'm not personally convinced that I've seen a decent reason for withdrawal that stands up to real scrutiny, but I'll admit to being no kind of expert.

What I'd really like is if the referendum provides a platform for a whole lot of public education on what the EU does/doesn't do, and our part in it. Unfortunately I suspect it'll be like the AV referendum and instead consist of solid campaigns of misinformation and scaremongering.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:17 
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Cavey wrote:
The ink's barely dry on the ballot papers, yet I see Sturgeon is already noisily making demands about more devolution, more independence, more money, more jam infill for doughnuts... how very predictable. Apparently, it hasn't yet dawned on her that the SNP don't actually have any power whatsoever in Westminster, principally down to her own lamentable dual tactic of enraging English voters with talk of her party actively voting and forcing changes on English only matters, to such an extent that they voted Tory in droves, whilst simultaneously damaging her only potential ally, Labour, so fatally that no such coalition of powers is possible? Heh. She'll learn soon enough during the course of the next 5 years.


Don't forget that in the wake of the referendum, additional powers were promised to the Scottish Parliament. And indeed, Cameron campaigned on keeping those promises as part of this GE campaign.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:20 
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Problem is, whatever she is offered, it won't be enough. Because, betrayal.

Have the SNP already forgotten that they were parties to the negotiations and the Smith report?


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:21 
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Oh, sure. I've no doubt Cameron will keep to his word (although whether fiscal independence will actually mean less, not more money per capita for Scotland is still very much unclear). But, the English are also going to get their devolved powers also, one way or another. Be careful what you wish for, Ms Sturgeon.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:24 
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Cavey wrote:
Oh, sure. I've no doubt Cameron will keep to his word (although whether fiscal independence will actually mean less, not more money per capita for Scotland is still very much unclear). But, the English are also going to get their devolved powers also, one way or another. Be careful what you wish for, Ms Sturgeon.



really? :) You've no doubt a politician will keep his election manifesto promises?


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:24 
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Cras wrote:
What I'd really like is if the referendum provides a platform for a whole lot of public education on what the EU does/doesn't do, and our part in it.
I've thought about this, and I have a response to it, and that response is: "lol."


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:27 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Oh, sure. I've no doubt Cameron will keep to his word (although whether fiscal independence will actually mean less, not more money per capita for Scotland is still very much unclear). But, the English are also going to get their devolved powers also, one way or another. Be careful what you wish for, Ms Sturgeon.



really? :) You've no doubt a politician will keep his election manifesto promises?


:D

Yeah, I know what you mean, but there's no way Cameron would dare to do otherwise. :)
But it's what else he's going to do, for England, that I'm suggesting is likely to be significant.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:30 
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Cavey wrote:
Gah, that's an appalling bunch of stats. What can I say? I'm not going to defend the indefensible just because it happens to be Tory MPs doing it.
Heh, sorry. Cheap shot I probably should have resisted. A striking statistic, though, I think.

Quote:
If you strip out economic policy beliefs, someone like me could easily and comfortably sit on the right flank of the Liberal Democrats. I don't know many Tories who are lifelong supporters of unilateral nuclear disarmament.
This goes back to one of my longterm talking points, which is the (sometimes very deep) divides in the Tory party between fiscal Conservatives and social ones. Like most fault lines, every so often this produces an earthquake or two; I'd argue the rise of UKIP was an example of that as I think it drew some of the more hardline social conservatives away. I see anti-immigration as being essentially the unpalatable fringe of social conservatism, in the same way as I see American "small government" Tea Party libertarians as the unpalatable fringe of fiscal conservatism. Then the two things join up in weird ways, and (again, in America) you get people who demand the state doesn't interfere in any individual liberties but wants to ban abortions. "Government small enough to fit in your uterus," as the saying goes. Fortunately we're not in that bad a state here.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:30 
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Ugh, God, can you imagine? The Daily Mail will be in full-on jingoistic bullshit mode with pish about straight bananas and all sorts of nonsense flying around. Expect the most poisonous national stereotypes to be touted everywhere along with endless guff about freedom and 'what did we win the war for anyway?' diatribes. It's going to be miserable and depressing. :(


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:36 
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It's interesting that those myths still persist despite being debunked a long time ago. Shouldn't those in favour start making a positive case for membership?
'No, there are no bans on nude swimming in the Wine Lake' is not an argument for the EU, after all. A better approach would be to ask why these rumours are so compelling, and that's, I think, because of a sense of distance between the institutions and the citizens.

I honestly don't know how I would vote. Both sides do not convince me, but for different reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:38 
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I honestly don't see any downsides to being in the EU. I'm missing something obvious if so many people don't want to be part of it. :shrug:


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:40 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Cras wrote:
What I'd really like is if the referendum provides a platform for a whole lot of public education on what the EU does/doesn't do, and our part in it.
I've thought about this, and I have a response to it, and that response is: "lol."


Ha, well yes absolutely. Hence the second half of my statement :)

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 11:38 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
The man is actually, legitimately mad. He's by all reasonable definitions a bloody terrorist.

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/stat ... 7091866624




He thinks Thanet result was questionable, too.

Because any fixing of results would result in an SNP Scotland

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 11:54 
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Cavey wrote:
Not for the first time, then, the SNP have been found woefully deficient in tactical terms.

The Washington Post sees it differently: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eur ... story.html It makes the case that Sturgeon may be playing the long game -- conceding any chance of a coalition with Labour in this parliament, in favour of emphasising the disconnection between Scotland and Westminister and thus building the case for a second independence referendum. Perhaps this was by accident rather than design, but the scenario itself seems very possible to me. Scotland clearly voted to reject Tory governance and Tory policies, but with a Tory majority, they'll get more of both over the next five years than the did in the last five. I wonder if, if we held the referendum tomorrow, if it would be defeated this time.

Quote:
After unexpected political charisma and cunning propelled him to another term as Britain’s prime minister, David Cameron will now need every ounce of those skills to avoid going down in history with an altogether different title: founding father of Little England.

A result that maintained the status quo at 10 Downing Street masked the dramatic transformations roiling Britain, ones that threaten to leave this country more isolated than at any time in its modern history.

Thursday’s election may become just the first in a trilogy of rapid-fire votes that set this island adrift from Europe, divide it in half along ancient lines of national identity and ultimately leave behind a rump state of ever-diminishing value to its American allies.


Quote:
If Britain leaves Europe despite notably pro-European sentiment in Scotland, the chances of Scotland’s newly empowered nationalists leading another drive for independence would instantly rise — despite a promise that last year’s failed bid was a “once-in-a-generation” event.


Quote:
Thursday’s election underscored the vast and growing political gulf between England and Scotland. Voters in both places delivered a landslide, but in England it was for the center-right Conservatives and in Scotland it was for the left-wing Scottish National Party (SNP).

Just 15 percent of Scots voted for the Conservatives, the party that will now govern the entire U.K., Scotland included, on its own terms and without the mitigating force of a coalition.

The Tories’ plans include a doubling down on austerity policies that the SNP ran pledging to reverse but that it will have little power to stop despite winning 56 of Scotland’s 59 seats in Parliament. That will likely strengthen the SNP’s argument that Scotland is better off on its own.

“It’s absolutely perfect for them. It plays to all their narratives about the differences between England and Scotland and the wickedness of the Tories,” said Torrance, who has written biographies of the SNP’s top leaders. “They can just sit back and reap the benefits.”

With the SNP dominating politics north of the border in a way that few ever imagined, the party is likely to win convincingly in Scottish parliamentary elections slated for next year and to promise another independence referendum — but to leave the timing ambiguous.

A British exit from Europe could be just the trigger the SNP needs to call another vote, following the defeat of last year’s referendum by a 10-point margin.


Quote:
Cameron himself played to English national sentiment during the campaign, continually warning English voters about the dangers of a Labor government propped up by the Scottish nationalists. The tactic may have helped him to pull out a decisive victory. But having stoked English passions could complicate his efforts to hold the union together.

“The worry is that if you do play the English against the Scots in this way, you run the risk of accentuating the kind of national divisions that the U.K. has always been able to gloss over,” said Michael Kenny, a politics professor at Queen Mary University of London. “So the argument is, you’re playing with fire here.”
That last point seems particularly sharp to me.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 12:11 
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From my POV, the SNP would've been far better off playing wrecking ball politics within the UK government (and garnering an awful lot more for Scotland in the intervening process), than ever they will just set noisily but impotently on the Opposition benches. Most certainly, it was very much their game plan to form a partnership to 'lock out Cameron', which hasn't happened due to factors largely of their own making.

But of course, the flip side is as you mention: a true Tory majority government for the UK will send the grievance machine in Scotland to overdrive, unless Cameron can neutralise it by calling the SNP's bluff and giving them full fiscal autonomy meaning they'll have no-one else to blame when it all goes tits up, which it will of course.

I've always been a staunch Unionist but even I'm losing patience with the Scots; the political landscape there is just so extreme and absurd it seems increasingly clear to me the place is now an irretrievable dead loss?

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 12:15 
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Cavey wrote:
I've always been a staunch Unionist but even I'm losing patience with the Scots; the political landscape there is just so extreme and absurd it seems increasingly clear to me the place is now an irretrievable dead loss?


This. Any settlement will have to be sufficient to appease growing English anger towards our friends in the north. We do appear to be lovebombing the Scots at the cost of raising jealousies south of the border.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 12:38 
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Kern wrote:
This. Any settlement will have to be sufficient to appease growing English anger towards our friends in the north. We do appear to be lovebombing the Scots at the cost of raising jealousies south of the border.

*cough*envies*cough*

That suggests that for a Scottish politician, demanding concessions is a win/win situation. If you get them, you get more power, and you make the people South of the border resent the Scots, and they may push politicians into a referendum and hope they go away. If you don't get the power, you can build your case for independence with your own people.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 12:47 
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Given the oil price has utterly tanked in the last 6 months it very starkly shows how the SNP's fanciful plans based on volatile oil revenue were utterly irresponsible and idiotic.

Here's the trick: They're making the noise but they absolutely, 100% don't want full fiscal autonomy right now. Why? Because there's a demonstrable £7bn black hole between revenue and expenditure (http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... l-revenues). If you watched QT on the day of the election result (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... e-08052015) you'll have seen even John Swinney admit that they acknowledge the process will be one made 'over time' (see about 10:30 onwards in on that link).

So basically they want time to actually get their own internal deficit sorted, because right now full fiscal power would completely fucking ruin them. They want to transition while sucking at the bottle full of Barnett formula (ha!).

This makes a self-evident mockery of all of their hot air and loud words, because if they'd got what they wanted they'd currently be completely fucked. Despite living here I almost want to see it happen so the morons that vote for them can see first hand the consequences of believing nationalist bullshit and promises without foundation.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 13:50 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
*cough*envies*cough*


Next you'll be telling me that I've been speaking in prose for all these years.

Quote:
That suggests that for a Scottish politician, demanding concessions is a win/win situation. If you get them, you get more power, and you make the people South of the border resent the Scots, and they may push politicians into a referendum and hope they go away. If you don't get the power, you can build your case for independence with your own people.


Yes.
2 things come to mind:

- Sturgeon and the SNP have placed so much emphasis on the whole 'we hate the Tories and will never work with them' line that they cannot publicly agree with Cameron or anything the government offers. Behind the scenes, they might be more open to dealing with them, especially as Cameron might be perfectly happy to hand Scotland over to the SNP if it will continue to keep Labour out.

- Without independence, the SNP are in a position to rule Scotland forever. They can always play the outsider card, even when governing from Holyrood.

Starting to think that Sturgeon is in a politically stronger position than Clegg was in 2010.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 14:30 
SupaMod
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Est. 1978

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Grim... wrote:
Kern wrote:
Grim... wrote:
I've got five things to vote for, apparently.

http://m.bedfordshire-news.co.uk/Bedfor ... story.html

Is there much publicity or advertising surrounding the police precept one?

No, I had to look it up to find out how much it would cost me - about £28 a year, it seems, so they can have that.

Running referendum itself cost £350,000 :facepalm:

And, not surprisingly, this has come out a "no".

They've actually been charging 15% since the beginning of the year (rather than the 2% they're "allowed to" - which would raise £4.5m to get 100 extra coppers), so they have to refund all that money. The admin for doing that (not including the cost of the refunds themselves) is going to be around £600,000!

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 14:33 
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Grim... wrote:
They've actually been charging 15% since the beginning of the year (rather than the 2% they're "allowed to" - which would raise £4.5m to get 100 extra coppers), so they have to refund all that money. The admin for doing that (not including the cost of the refunds themselves) is going to be around £600,000!


This is interesting. People were happy to pay the extra (or at least did so begrudgingly), but when directly asked, they refused.

Not sure other authorities are going to try this experiment, which means things will continue to get tighter and tighter.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 14:35 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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The Milton Keynes residential referendum was a resounding yes.

http://voteyescmk.org/


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 14:37 
SupaMod
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I doubt people even knew they were paying extra - it was about 28p a week.

The wording on the ballot paper was really bad, and basically said "Would you like to pay more council tax because police?" without ever explaining why.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 14:44 
SupaMod
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They're not allowed to explain why on a ballot paper, are they? You'd be persuading people towards a particular choice.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 14:52 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Equally I think the MK referendum was something like "do you want MK to enact the residential neighbourhood plan" I imagine the majority of voters had never heard of it before, it wasn't widely publicised. I'm not sure why you would vote no to that question if the name was the only thing you knew about it.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 14:55 
SupaMod
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No different to only having a list of candidate names on the GE ballot paper though, right? You're supposed to already know about all the options before getting to the polling booth. If people don't, that's the fault of the people campaigning for their cause in the referendum.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 15:02 
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I reckon that just seeing 15.8% on the ballot paper without any context (£2 £1.12 a month) would send people straight to the 'no' box if people weren't following the issue.

Moral: local government, even PCCs, matter folks!


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 15:05 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Read a story on Saturday I think. An MP in Wales (Tory I think) referred to the fact that on one of the ballot papers, instead of an 'X' someone had drawn a big hairy penis against his name, but still within the confines of the box.

Returning officer took it as a vote for him. Probably not as intended.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 15:08 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Read a story on Saturday I think. An MP in Wales (Tory I think) referred to the fact that on one of the ballot papers, instead of an 'X' someone had drawn a big hairy penis against his name, but still within the confines of the box.

Returning officer took it as a vote for him. Probably not as intended.


http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politi ... e-1.873333


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