Elite

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22387

lasermink wrote:

This RPS article sums up pretty well what Frontier have said on the matter.

Quote:

When Frontier took to Kickstarter to fund Elite: Dangerous in 2012, netting £1,578,316, they said folks would be able to play an offline singleplayer mode. They weren’t entirely sure how it’d work, given that many of their space sim plans involved an online and interconnected galaxy, but they said it’d be in there. With Elite’s official launch less than a month away, Frontier have now said that won’t happen. It’ll have an online singleplayer mode, as always planned, but no offline support.

“A fully offline experience would be unacceptably limited and static compared to the dynamic, ever unfolding experience we are delivering,” creator David Braben said in last Friday’s Elite newsletter. Naturally, players wanted to know what exactly that meant, so executive producer Michael Brookes took to the forums to answer loads of questions.

Offline singleplayer will “probably not” ever get added, Brookes said. “We have put considerable time and effort to try and make this happen, but we’ve had to make this decision to make the game we set out to do. We would happily support offline play if it were possible for us to do so.”

An offline mode “is impractical rather than impossible, but circumstances mean that it cannot be done,” he explained. They can’t simply release a separate version without universe syncing, he explained, as so much of the game is server-side. “To make that happen we’d essentially have to create two games. The servers handle more than just the data, they handle all the key processes for interaction in the game, so trading, mission generation and background simulation to name a few.” And they don’t want to release server code to folks “as it contains the secrets of the galaxy.”

As for why Frontier have let people believe for so long that offline was coming, Brookes said “Because we wanted to be certain before announcing.” Reading his responses and Braben’s statement, though, it seems they’ve been fairly clear for a while about the game they’ve wanted to make – which, as they say, doesn’t really allow for offline singleplayer.

If you’re unhappy with this, Brookes pointed out that they offer refunds. They don’t have a firm policy in place for backer refunds, as everything is dealt with on a case-by-case basis. They should probably be a bit more proactive about that.

So they are meeting backers' concerns with a "get a refund if you're unhappy" sort of policy. I think it tells a pretty good story of where their concerns lie.

That seems entirely reasonable to me? They wanted to do something, realised it's just too difficult, or costly, or time consuming, or whatever, so have said they won't be doing it and are offering a refund.

Obviously that refund route needs to be tested and proved viable, but assuming you can get your money back if you want it, then what more could they do?

lasermink · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1883

Trooper wrote:

lasermink wrote:

This RPS article sums up pretty well what Frontier have said on the matter.

Quote:

When Frontier took to Kickstarter to fund Elite: Dangerous in 2012, netting £1,578,316, they said folks would be able to play an offline singleplayer mode. They weren’t entirely sure how it’d work, given that many of their space sim plans involved an online and interconnected galaxy, but they said it’d be in there. With Elite’s official launch less than a month away, Frontier have now said that won’t happen. It’ll have an online singleplayer mode, as always planned, but no offline support.

“A fully offline experience would be unacceptably limited and static compared to the dynamic, ever unfolding experience we are delivering,” creator David Braben said in last Friday’s Elite newsletter. Naturally, players wanted to know what exactly that meant, so executive producer Michael Brookes took to the forums to answer loads of questions.

Offline singleplayer will “probably not” ever get added, Brookes said. “We have put considerable time and effort to try and make this happen, but we’ve had to make this decision to make the game we set out to do. We would happily support offline play if it were possible for us to do so.”

An offline mode “is impractical rather than impossible, but circumstances mean that it cannot be done,” he explained. They can’t simply release a separate version without universe syncing, he explained, as so much of the game is server-side. “To make that happen we’d essentially have to create two games. The servers handle more than just the data, they handle all the key processes for interaction in the game, so trading, mission generation and background simulation to name a few.” And they don’t want to release server code to folks “as it contains the secrets of the galaxy.”

As for why Frontier have let people believe for so long that offline was coming, Brookes said “Because we wanted to be certain before announcing.” Reading his responses and Braben’s statement, though, it seems they’ve been fairly clear for a while about the game they’ve wanted to make – which, as they say, doesn’t really allow for offline singleplayer.

If you’re unhappy with this, Brookes pointed out that they offer refunds. They don’t have a firm policy in place for backer refunds, as everything is dealt with on a case-by-case basis. They should probably be a bit more proactive about that.

So they are meeting backers' concerns with a "get a refund if you're unhappy" sort of policy. I think it tells a pretty good story of where their concerns lie.

That seems entirely reasonable to me? They wanted to do something, realised it's just too difficult, or costly, or time consuming, or whatever, so have said they won't be doing it and are offering a refund.

Obviously that refund route needs to be tested and proved viable, but assuming you can get your money back if you want it, then what more could they do?

I am not saying that they cheated anyone, only that I, personally, am disappointed with where this has gone. And I am most certainly not alone.

I originally backed this with my eyes open, knowing that it could be money out the window and so be it.

I am not sure if I regret going for the expansion pass. I seems more like a gamble now than it did before. But OK, if it all goes to hell it's not like a lost the roof over my head.

However, having the game right there, playable, so enjoyable already for actual Elite fans, those who already put down the money, but probably not really for anyone else as it is right now, knowing that it will have a limited life span, which could be half a year or ten years, nobody knows, that is just a cruel sensation. Save games will be stored on the server, so whatever you do in the game will be lost the moment Frontier pulls the plug on the game. That sucks a lot of enjoyment out of the game right there, all by itself.

GazChap · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2014 16:45

I'm not in the least bit worried by this, although I guess we'll see how far along it is on Thursday when beta 3.9 is released.

Braben and the Frontier crew have so much riding on this they can't afford to get it wrong.

Zio · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6093

I have to admit, I am a bit disappointed by this as I was anticipating being able to play the game on my laptop and offline if needed, but in virtually all regards the game has shaped up into something better than I was expecting. It's disappointing, but not enough to make me regret backing it, or wanting a refund. Far from it: I'm looking forward to cracking on with the release version!

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2014 17:40

I just want them to fix the fact that 50% of the time I overshoot my destination in Supercruise.

lasermink · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1883

GazChap wrote:

I'm not in the least bit worried by this, although I guess we'll see how far along it is on Thursday when beta 3.9 is released.

Braben and the Frontier crew have so much riding on this they can't afford to get it wrong.

Business is business. If they can't come up with a viable economy for this, it will shut down, no matter what anyone wants or needs.

EDIT: Which I am sure you already knew. I guess my confidence is a lot lower.

itsallwater · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2014 18:05

I think for the near future they'll make enough money with micro transaction and so on for ship skins and so on. Longer term (3 years out or so) I think you're right, they'll have to come up with some way to paying for the servers and maintenance. They probably will though.

GazChap · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2014 19:58

Grim... wrote:

I just want them to fix the fact that 50% of the time I overshoot my destination in Supercruise.

Are you setting the throttle to the blue zone as soon as you enter SC?

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2014 21:54

Zio · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6093

My general rule of thumb is to go full beans in supercruise, until I'm about 100-120 ls away from the destination, then I put the throttle in the middle of the blue zone. I very rarely overshoot my destination.

MrPSB · **Posted:** Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:37

I read a while ago a good tip is keeping your speed in c to about 10% of distance to object (you can actually get away with a bit more sometimes) as you get closer in. Obviously when you're down to the Mm scale it becomes easier to get a bit of fine control.

Grim... · **Posted:** Tue Nov 18, 2014 17:07

What's the point of having a blue bit if it's wrong?!

itsallwater · **Posted:** Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:23

I can hit most the time. Depends on the system I'm visiting though. Also as long as the distance and speed match up on the slidey thing on the left you can always exit near the station even with a speed warning.

MrPSB · **Posted:** Wed Nov 19, 2014 14:23

Grim... wrote:

What's the point of having a blue bit if it's wrong?!

No idea, unless it means a similar thing to when you're not in supercruise, which is staying in it gives you better manoeuvrability (to avoid being interdicted).

lasermink · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1883

I'm glad to see David Braben grabbing the bull by the horns in the latest newsletter, and I do actually more or less believe him when he says that the decision to pull offline was due to the vision he had for the game from the beginning.

I also appreciate the pledge to publicize the server code if things go to hell, even if a promise of this nature should taken with a grain of salt.

There remains the thorny issue of refunds, but to be honest, I can understand the argument that if you choose to put silly money into something like a Kickstarter, you have only yourself to blame for your loss if things don't turn out the way you expected. Did they promise offline in order to get money out of people who otherwise wouldn't have backed? I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I am finding it hard, with their announcement happening just a month before release. It reeks, it really does.

It seems the gray area is about those who backed the Kickstarter and haven't played the alpha/beta, as anyone who has booted the game up even once definitely won't get anything. Ultimately, it is my impression that we are not really talking about a lot of people who genuinely want a refund, but I do hope they get it if they want.

Anyway, we now have an Elite MMO, and given the ideas they are hinting at (but so far haven't really shown), it's not like it isn't an interesting prospect. Until further notice, it is subscription free. All we can do is hope for the best and enjoy it while we can.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Oh boy.

lasermink · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1883

RPS has a decent article on the refund situation.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22387

I know, i'll have a quick go on the Elite combat tutorial missions before the game is release.

EliteDangerous32.exe Crash on launch, every single time. That bodes well!

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22387

Success! I had to go into the xml and turn off upnp.

I love pc gaming.

GazChap · **Posted:** Thu Dec 04, 2014 22:43

I finally got this working in Direct mode on the Rift, and it's much better - less lag and somehow greater image clarity.

Only downside is I had to physically disconnect one of my monitors to do it, but apparently if I connect my second monitor up to a mini-DisplayPort port rather than the DVI it was connected to, the graphics card will be able to take it - so, adapter ordered!

Also got wiped out by another player on the way to Earth. First of all he attempted to open voice communications with me, then when I didn't answer immediately he interdicted me, shouted at me in Polish (through the text chat area) and then blew me to smithereens.

The ship I was in was carrying no cargo, had no weapons and no shields - all of which he would have been able to see. What a cock.

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:42

GazChap wrote:

What a cock.

Yeah, I wouldn't have flown in a ship with no shields either.

itsallwater · **Posted:** Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:34

But you do get the extra jump distance. It can be worth the risk in your free ship.

Not had chance to play for a while but it looks like its coming together. The basics seem to be in place and I can't wait until they stop wiping out what little progression I'm making.

Grim... · **Posted:** Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:36

Stuff the jump distance, you get more cargo space.

lasermink · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1883

According to this (post on official forums), there won't be a wipe a launch, so no reason to hold back from playing from now on! I already have a decently kitted out Cobra Mk III, so this is welcome news.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22387

Launch day tomorrow. Shall we run a book on how long till it is actually playable and the servers can handle it? I'm expecting a total clusterfuck.*

* dyswidt?

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

It barely has any servers, only for the economy. Most in-space stuff is handled via instances hosted via peer-2-peer.

The answer is still "five minutes", mind.

GazChap · **Posted:** Mon Dec 15, 2014 17:11

Although I think their servers get involved when switching instances to make sure that you're matched with people on your friends list, in your groups etc.

itsallwater · **Posted:** Mon Dec 15, 2014 17:51

They are using amazons cloud thingy. Hopefully they've got scope for rapid growth.

I'm gonna be positive and say there'll be no more down time than we see at the moment. Which isn't much other than some people still having issues with crashes on their hardware.

lasermink · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1883

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

It barely has any servers, only for the economy. Most in-space stuff is handled via instances hosted via peer-2-peer.

The answer is still "five minutes", mind.

Dunno, judging from the way we get kicked out of the game constantly, there seems to be quite a lot of server stuff going on (or not, as it were).

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Mercenary Edition pre-ordered. See you in space, CMDRs!

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22387

Noon, apparently. We shall see

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22387

It's out

I'm at work

lasermink · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1883

Everything running smoothly so far. I suppose busy time will start in the evening.

On a sour note, I had to clear my save due to a bug during gamma that gave me infinitely bad reputation with the Federation. Bye bye, Cobra Mk III all A-fitted (worth about 5 million). :'(

Dr Zoidberg · **Joined:** 15th Oct, 2010 **Posts:** 5386

Ouch.
I'm just getting to grips with it all at the mo. I had it pre-ordered ages ago but didn't start playing until a couple of days ago.

lasermink · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1883

Very smooth launch so far. My hat's off to Frontier Developments on this one.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22387

Rift DK2 ordered

I'll play elite with it for a bit and then flog it on ebay again and get my money back.

Grim... · **Posted:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 23:51

Trooper wrote:

Rift DK2 ordered

I'll play elite with it for a bit and then flog it on ebay again and get my money back.

You dick. I sold mine on Sunday.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22387

Grim... wrote:

Trooper wrote:

Rift DK2 ordered

I'll play elite with it for a bit and then flog it on ebay again and get my money back.

You dick. I sold mine on Sunday.

how much did you get for it?

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Dec 17, 2014 0:02

£320, near as damnit.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22387

Not too bad, they go for a bit more on ebay, but that comes with having to deal with eBay.
That's pretty much what it costs to buy one from oculus direct and get it shipped over.

Did you have to pay import duty on yours?

GazChap · **Posted:** Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:13

I didn't on mine - I'm pretty sure they're shipped from a UK warehouse so no import duty to pay.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22387

Nice, that should mean it is £300 delivered.
2-4 week lead time apparently, roughly the same as my HOTAS.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Dec 17, 2014 14:49

Trooper wrote:

Not too bad, they go for a bit more on ebay, but that comes with having to deal with eBay.

They go for exactly that on eBay

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22387

Grim... wrote:

Trooper wrote:

Not too bad, they go for a bit more on ebay, but that comes with having to deal with eBay.

They go for exactly that on eBay

That seems a little low based on some of the completed listings then

Is that after fees etc...

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Dec 17, 2014 16:13

Damnit!

lasermink · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1883

Disconnected, hrmph. And just as I was about to reach Sorbago, too.

itsallwater · **Posted:** Wed Dec 17, 2014 18:13

Wish I could get this working on my laptop. Would be the ideal travelling game. (Yes I tried it already and its just too slow).

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Dec 17, 2014 18:46

itsallwater wrote:

Would be the ideal travelling game.

You certainly can go a long way.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22387

My Rift is apparently preparing to ship already...

GazChap · **Posted:** Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:11

Trooper wrote:

My Rift is apparently preparing to ship already...

Be Excellent To Each Other

Elite
Remake?!

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Be Excellent To Each Other

Elite Remake?!

Who is online

Elite
Remake?!