Christ. Now I have to get involved. I tend not to post much on here (as my low post count will doubtless attest), but seeing the Noted Internet Mentalist formally known as ComicalGames strutting in here humming "Wild Mountain Thyme" with a sprig of heather shoved in his hair in the role of “The One Sane Voice of the Scottish People Who Sees and Speaks Truth" has motivated me to actually log in for once and type a reply.
Anyway, hello! Lest I just be seen as another axe-grinding, vexed foe who's using this as an excuse to start randomly wading in with abuse, I feel I should state my credentials. I'm Stephen and I'm a Scottish man who lives in Scotland. However, before the chin-stroking and nodding begin, I have also lived in England and currently spend, ooh, at least one out of every 3 or 4 weeks in London due to the demands of my employer; I am no parochial hayseed terrified by the monsters I have heard live across the border. I even eat foods that are occasionally not entirely deep fried (although I make sure to always have chips with it). There are at least several people possibly no longer on here who can confirm most of the above - and hopefully also confirm the fact I'm not a dangerous lunatic or anything. A miserable bastard perhaps, but lovely nonetheless. I also probably have a entirely outdated and needlessly combative style of posting, but you can all SHUT UP.
Anyway, this is a thread I've also kept an eye on - and much as I've scoffed and disagreed entirely with large parts of it, I've nonetheless found it an interesting to read what the view from, well, "outside" is. I'm always oddly touched that there's apparently such a pro-Union feeling in England (and I mean that quite sincerely), even if it sometimes unintentionally manifests in a vaguely "You'd be nothing without us!" tone from the more, er, strident posters, shall we say. Anyway. Shall we?
ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
One of the things that comforts me is the knowledge that living in Bath won't save you from the Glasgow effect, and the crisp-scoffing vein-popping little twat will meet his maker by natural causes in the next 10 years or so.
Stay classy. While Stu remains a polarising figure (particularly on here), I'm actually pleased to see him put his energies towards something he clearly feels strongly about and make a success of it. Using "He doesn't even live in Scotland" (as you do earlier) while wishing cardiac-based death though is clearly absolute insanity. By all means agree and disagree with what he says, but it'd be as deranged as my saying "You weren't even born in Scotland!" or even "You used to run a copyright-baiting site about giant biscuits and the like and have a history of spectacularly flouncing over nothing at all" by way of arguing with you. Just for example, like.
ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
No answers on currency, no answers on EU membership. No definitive position on debt share. Veiled threats, and whiny accusations of bullying. Not a government I'll vote for.
The SNP have come to the conclusion of what they want, and have ever since back-pedalled trying to find evidence to support it. It doesn't take a scientist to say that's the wrong way to approach a perceived problem.
I don't disagree that the Pro-Independence camp haven't always been particularly detailed on a lot of this (although again, I think a lot of this is overstated somewhat - leading to ludicrous fear-mongering headlines about "YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO WATCH DR WHO” and last week’s incredible Express one about “CURE FOR CANCER DELAYED IF SCOTLAND BECOMES INDEPENDENT” and the like - when despite your derision I *do* actually believe that a lot of this wouldn't really be a problem eventually after some meandering. Although I think they should have been firmer on the currency thing, mind. But anyway) this isn't the real issue completely. The SNP have been incredibly clever about how they're going about this and despite your lack of being convinced - others clearly are and the continually narrowing polls attest to this. Assuming overwhelming public support is given for breaking away, it's not like it's going to happen the next day regardless. Negotiations over these types of things are going to be inevitable and are never going to be settled even in the most detailed manifesto.
ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
'Greener, fairer, more just'. You're a parody of the most well-worn SNP lines I've seen dragged out time and again in this debate. The same kind of bullshit bollocks that every politician rolls out in advance of an election, and yet on this occasion you're all absolutely convinced of the utter truth of this promise! Genuine credulity, it's absolutely horrifying to behond.
Except Wullie’s already made it quite clear he’s campaigning on behalf of the Greens; something you’ve ignored - along with his request to actually give a proper piece of reasoning for a no vote other than haughty condescension. That’s the thing that seems to pass a lot of people by; a vote for Independence is not a vote for the SNP. You’re voting to alter the argument and change the system; to force the political parties to engage with the political, social and economic issues that matter in this part of the world - rather than making sure the City of London is booming and that house prices in the South East remain buoyant. I should point out that I’m not arguing with the political realities that force the Westminster parties to set such priorities (although the gusto with which they do is another debate entirely), but the fact is that such priorities are *far* less relevant in a country which still hasn’t recovered from the arse falling out (or being kicked out of, depending on your view) of what was primarily a manufacturing focused economy at the end of the last century. Christ, even if you’re a Conservative voter, wouldn’t it be good to have a party that actually campaigns on and implements policies which are relevant to the day to day concerns of your already entirely separate legal and educational systems? Independence has got fuck all to do with whether you think Alex Salmond is the greatest politician around or whether you think he’s got a giant fat head - it’s about self-determination and re-engagement with a what has become for many a completely irrelevant political process and system that’s lurched increasingly rightward in spite of overwhelming public support for a left-leaning option. In that situation, I don’t think “greener, fairer, more just” is bollocks at all. Idealistic, maybe - but isn’t that the whole fucking point of politics in some ways?
ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
I also never really understood why some people type in a Scottish accent. What's with that? Many Scots I've spoken to don't understand the predilection either.
How about that’s because that’s probably how he speaks? And probably how I speak too, quite honestly. And how fucking diminishing and derisory is it of you to point that out as if in a stage whisper to a sniggering audience of braying toffs? Heaven forbid a Scottish man use Scottish idiom in a thread about Scotland! Besides, Scots is as valid (if somewhat diluted due to years of neglect) a language as English, so let's just assume he was typing in Scots. In fact, now I reply to this bit and becoming increasingly enraged, this comment is making me wonder why I’m even debating this with you. As I read all what you’ve wrote even in just this last page, the following comments…
ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
His exemplifies the scrounging, feckless, angry, useless, bitter, and inherently selfish type of twat that would want to vote Yes to independence, because they think there's something in it for them personally and to hell with anyone else.
Seriously, if all these twats leveraged this effort into actually improving their lives or doing things for the betterment of Scotland, they'd have much less to complain about to begin with.
ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
For this comment alone you identify yourself as someone who is unworthy of any effort of mine.
Re-read what I actually said, and contemplate the truth of how easily your emotions have predisposed you to vote a particular way.
ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Promises, emotional patriotism, a desire to believe it's true with associated confirmation bias are what compels a Yes voter. It becomes very easy to discard the huge volume of credible evidence against independence.
ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Since I'm not a jolly wee Scot, I am freed from such weights on my cultural identity.
… make it clear what a condescending, supercilious, odiously dismissive, fucking *arsehole* of a man you actually are. So I’m going to shut up now.
Well, that went well.