Be Excellent To Each Other

So, what, you managed to get a shock off the light socket, but the bulb doesn't light? This means the neutral is missing.

Fuck that! Since the first time I always switch it off at the box. I still have a strange compulsion to touch electric fences in fields just to see if they're live, though.

Having now seen the fan (and been touched by it ), it would appear that the second cord is actually for the light and not the fan
Bearing in mind that I did try all combinations of light cord and light switch, do I need to change anything with the way I've got this wired up?

Is there any leaflet with a diagram or instructions? Post that, for avoidance of doubt.

Although no, there shouldn't be a difference.

Ok, I'll have another look, seeing as the fan works, would that just be the switch neutral that's missing?

The light switch only provides live. Neutral is there all the time and should be common to both bits. Could be a fault in the appliance.

The only wiring related diagram just has a picture of the terminal block from my first post and says to connect the wires in the following way:

Earth (Yellow/Green) - Earth
Live (Red) - Light
Neutral (Blue) - N
Live (Brown) - Fan

What I have done (if I'm remembering correctly) is:
Earth - Earth (via a terminal block because the wire from the ceiling wasn't long enough)
Switched Live - Light
2 black wires - N
2 red wires to a terminal block
wire from terminal block + 3rd red - Fan (because I couldn't cram all 3 red in the one hole).

It's possible something worked its way loose when I was trying to jam the terminal block out the way of the rest of the fan so I'll take it apart and have a look (when I've recovered).

That should be OK although I'd prefer all of the red wires to be joined at a single point. Use a bigger bit of terminal strip if needed.

So, how many mini-me's does it take to change a lightbulb?

Well I can't see anything obviously wrong with it, so I'll see if I can get the 3 reds in one hole

Pot as many balls as yer can !

It should work though. I suspect there is a loose wire inside it somewhere.

Well if he got a jolt when trying to put the bulb in then there must have been power going to it at that stage at least, perhaps that incident caused some damage.

I'd guess that these are screw in (small ES) type bulbs. The live should go to the centre pip, and neutral to the threaded part. You can sometimes touch that threaded part while you screw the bulb in.
No consequence normally (neutral is "safe" to touch) but if neutral is missing, you get current flowing from the centre pip, through the bulb filament and into your hand, as it has nowhere else to go. Doh!

So don't change a bulb with the light switch on, kiddies.

It definitely wouldn't have been able to damage anything though, so I suspect it's just faulty (i.e. the neutral wire isn't connected to the bulb part, inside)

If you feel like buying a multimeter Joans (fiver or so in Maplin) then we can diagnose this properly, or you could return it and try again.

So what you're saying is I need to see if I can get another shock off it, to determine if it's working or not?

They're bayonet cap bulbs (so don't ask how I got shocked), but if that doesn't change anything then I'll try and get hold of a multimeter and see what that tells me (I mean what it tells you, obviously, as it will tell me very little).

Weird. Well, I don't want to advise you to do anything that might result in another shock, anyway

If you feel like examining it further then I'll be glad to help but my money is on "faulty appliance" just now so it may be a good idea to take it back and swap it.

I've borrowed a multimeter, but I'm not sure what to stick where?

What I would suggest is to switch the power off again, and then use the "continuity"* setting to test between the N terminal and the pins in the light socket.
One of them should always be connected to N. If it isn't, that's the problem.


*This is the setting where it buzzes when you connect the leads together. If it doesn't have that just choose the lowest Ohm setting, so that the meter swings over to zero when you touch the leads together.

Be careful!

I miss Myp.

phhoar!!


of get a extenstion/termination block and put them in there and take one from teh block to the light...

can be easier to do

Er, I've managed to borrow one of these. Is it any help?

That's what I did to start with. It didn't work.
It still doesn't work though.

This reminds of the time I did Telephone support.

And in a remote school in Scotland, the pc had stopped working. SO I asked the lady to pug a kettle lead from the kettle into the PC to see if it worked.

It did not, engineer was sent out..

He then rang me to ask why was there a kettle connected tot teh PC instead of a monitor

Frankly, no, it's worse than useless for this

Mum pulled an absolute classic a few weeks ago. I arrived in the morning and went up to check my emails. I could hear her shouting and cursing, figured the cats were annoying her.

Went downstairs and she had the Argos catalogue out. Asked what she was ordering and she replied "A new kettle, ours is fucked".

Went into the kitchen and plugged it in.....

She forgot that even though cordless it needed to be plugged in.

God bless blondes. They really are a lot of fun.

How about one of these then?

is that a pic of an electrictian?

Maybe soon.

LOL.

Yes Joans, that'll do it.

Due to lack of stock, I've got one of these instead.
So, now what do I do?

Don't try using it as an automotive tachtometer.

OK, turn it to the "ohms" scale (the lowest one it has) and then touch the probes together. The meter should go all the way to the right (zero).

Now, with the fuse out, power off, do the test I mentioned above - check if there is a connection between N on the terminal block and either of the light socket pins.

Be 1000% sure the power is off before you start. You can use the meter on the "500V AC" scale to measure for voltage between earth and anything else. If there is, back up.

Depending on what I set the dial to (the little analog one in the resitance section), it either flies all the way to the right, or goes to about 1 or 2 ohms. Does it matter where I have that dial set?
I'm probably not going to get a chance to turn the power off again until the morning, so I'll try and give it a go then and see what happens, but otherwise I'm away until wednesday afternoon.

You can use the little dial to set the needle to the zero point on the scale, before making a measurement. It doesn't really matter for this purpose though, you are just looking for connection or no connection.

Ok, slightly new development. It would appear that some of the upstairs lights don't work, but some of them do (so the fuse hasn't been tripped).
I'm going to take a reasonably educated guess and say that the two lights that aren't working come after the bedroom light in the loop and the power isn't getting past the fan to power these other lights?
More updates in the morning when I take everything apart again.

You could check your fusebox though. We seem to have about eighty different independent circuits in our house, so if one fuse trips it only affects certain items in each room all around the house, including only selected lights.

Joans, I mean this most sincerely: please don't kill yourself.

I have it on good authority (albeit the same authority that told me the two cords were both to operate the fan and not the light), that the fuses are ok and at least one bulb has been changed, but still doesn't work.
I have no intention of killing myself, just of going to bed and sorting it out in the morning, but thank you (and others) for your concern.

Should the worst happen, flowers/donations can be sent to...

You know what, the loop being disconnected at one point should not cause any lights not to work. It's a loop: both ends should go back to the fusebox but clearly one doesn't. I'd want to investigate that and put it right to be honest.

However yes, you must have left something disconnected, it can't be a coincidence.

And yes, do be careful, I'm a bit concerned that you got a shock, it's not something to be blasé about really.

Especially since his lawyers have your 'advice' on this here interweb!

I might delete this thread

To be fair this is actually into "you legally should stop messing with it" territory because there is clearly something wrong with your house wiring as well as the lamp, which under Part P of the building regulations in England, you ain't allowed to touch. So my official and final advice is: get an electrician in. Sorry!

Bearing in mind I appear to be having internet difficulties and can't read your last post, I have done the multimeter test in the following way. Attached one probe to the (neutral) screw on the fan side of the terminal block and the other to each pin of the bulb fitting, both pins sent the needle to the right. Oh yeah, the electric is currently (pun not intended) off.

Oh, take the other bulbs out too!

Actually this is maybe going to be confusing with the thing still wired up...

Did Joans just blow a fuse in the forum?

Yeah, but I just wiggled stuff around and it's started working again.

Can you take a picture of the wiring you've got now and we can suck air through our teeth and go "nah mate, it's all gonna have to come out".