A hardened gambler would of course never have the money in their pocket as it would be shoveled straight back in 
There was a cheat of sorts on a noughts and crosses game I was on about a while back.
If you had some nudges which didn't result in a win, and then on the next turn had the opportunity to hold, ignore the hold. If you didn't hold anything and carried on as normal then you'd always spin in a winning line.
It was only £1 but it did work (on the 2 or 3) occasions I tried it
If you had some nudges which didn't result in a win, and then on the next turn had the opportunity to hold, ignore the hold. If you didn't hold anything and carried on as normal then you'd always spin in a winning line.
It was only £1 but it did work (on the 2 or 3) occasions I tried it
Zen-Chan wrote:
I assume to the more hardened gamblers seeing someone like me doing this immediately marked us out as an idiot whose money would soon be in their pocket 
Yes and no - there were tricks and cheats on the games (i remember a bit in a newspaper about a long complicated key pressing set built into the £6 jackpot Bellfruit cops'n'robbers) but for all those silly things there were legitimate cheats which worked some were just knowing how to do something in a particular way , or some were turning the machine off at the right moment.
The problem is that the ones which you can easily demonstrate on the emulated games typically are hard to do (or we dont have the right rom versions for the cheats to work).
Here is an example of one that uses a particular feature
If you can do the feature every time you'll get a jackpot - you just keep taking it - the jackpot is £15 and it will cost you less than that to get back to the feature - do it long enough and you'll take all the money out of the machine
(thats not going into the 'tricks' they built into the machine for you to find like holding down cancel to slow down skill stops or random stops / 3 holds for wins / let em spin after nudges etc etc)
TheVision wrote:
There was a cheat of sorts on a noughts and crosses game I was on about a while back.
If you had some nudges which didn't result in a win, and then on the next turn had the opportunity to hold, ignore the hold. If you didn't hold anything and carried on as normal then you'd always spin in a winning line.
It was only £1 but it did work (on the 2 or 3) occasions I tried it
If you had some nudges which didn't result in a win, and then on the next turn had the opportunity to hold, ignore the hold. If you didn't hold anything and carried on as normal then you'd always spin in a winning line.
It was only £1 but it did work (on the 2 or 3) occasions I tried it
That's one of the more common ones - a lot of the Astra ones do it. Usually it'll spin in the win that you'd just been nudging for, but occasionally it would upgrade your win to the next one, or even a jackpot occasionally. The bloody enormous Double Decker was good for that -
Attachment:
doubledecker.jpg
Just noticed a friend of mine on Facebook playing 'Slotomania', which I'd not heard of before. For those who might be curious as to how modern machines play, it's worth a nose - it has Wilds, Scatters, a feature and free spins, but also shows how little interaction there is with them these days - you're just hitting spin over and over, so when there's nothing at stake, it shows how tedious they soon become.
Add me to the list of people who've never seen the point of Fruit machines. I used to put cash into a Space invaders one a while back but thats about it. I'm more a penny falls type of guy, they seem more fun and my favourites are either Namco's Pacman ball or Haniwa De Go (by Taito). I don't know if they can be simulated or indeed emulated, but they are about the only gambling type thing I can be bothered to sink a pound or two into.
Bear or Bust wrote:
Add me to the list of people who've never seen the point of Fruit machines. I used to put cash into a Space invaders one a while back but thats about it. I'm more a penny falls type of guy, they seem more fun and my favourites are either Namco's Pacman ball or Haniwa De Go (by Taito). I don't know if they can be simulated or indeed emulated, but they are about the only gambling type thing I can be bothered to sink a pound or two into.
The problem there is emulating, or rather, simulating, the physics.
For pinball 'emulation' they had to splice Visual Pinball and VPINMAME, with VP handling the table design and physics, and VPINMAME handling the emulation of the electronic gubbins.
The penny/coin falls machines would require a similar pairing.
As for the 'point' of fruit machines, once you get past the obvious 'to try and win money' I honestly think that many of them stand up as decent games in their own right (which is where emulation comes in) - but of course not everyone will agree
devilman wrote:
I appreciate the advice from you and AE though - I'm trying to sort myself out again at the moment. Currently I'm at the stage where I'm blogging my progress daily just to have an incrementing record of my thoughts at the time so that I'm not bottling stuff up. I'm on a whole 8 days without so far, so it's very early days yet though. 
(I tend to keep all this crap out of the Nay thread)
(I tend to keep all this crap out of the Nay thread)
31 days now.
(Obviously to normal folk, a month is nothing, but considering how this year has gone, I was doing well if I'd go a week without) If I make it to 12 months I might even post in the Yay thread. devilman wrote:
31 days now. (Obviously to normal folk, a month is nothing, but considering how this year has gone, I was doing well if I'd go a week without) If I make it to 12 months I might even post in the Yay thread.
(Obviously to normal folk, a month is nothing, but considering how this year has gone, I was doing well if I'd go a week without) If I make it to 12 months I might even post in the Yay thread. Congrats - keep it up dude
Seriously, in six months time you won't have a clue what to do with all the spare cash.
Well done, mate.
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
devilman wrote:
31 days now. (Obviously to normal folk, a month is nothing, but considering how this year has gone, I was doing well if I'd go a week without) If I make it to 12 months I might even post in the Yay thread.
(Obviously to normal folk, a month is nothing, but considering how this year has gone, I was doing well if I'd go a week without) If I make it to 12 months I might even post in the Yay thread. Congrats - keep it up dude
Seriously, in six months time you won't have a clue what to do with all the spare cash.
Hopefully the next Steam sale will have kicked in
zaphod79 wrote:
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
I haven't been able to get Visual Pinball running on Windows 7 at all, and it's still the utter fucking bastard it always used to be to get set up too, I spent an evening trying to get it running a few months ago and eventually gave up.
I did get it going but there was so many faffs and moving files around - what i'd love is a simple way to get a set of files so we could do a challenge and get people playing stuff like The Adams Family and posting scores.
I may have another go at the weekend to get something usable.
I'm such a fucking
Just run the VisualPinball executable as a fucking administrator, job done. It popped into my head yesterday and I just remembered to give it a try now.
There must be something around the vbscripts that Vista/Win7 doesn't like unless you run it with elevated privileges, as it was always when processing the scripts that it bombed out before launching.
TWILIGHT ZONE AHOY!
Attachment:
Untitled.jpg
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
I'm such a fucking
Just run the VisualPinball executable as a fucking administrator, job done. It popped into my head yesterday and I just remembered to give it a try now.
There must be something around the vbscripts that Vista/Win7 doesn't like unless you run it with elevated privileges, as it was always when processing the scripts that it bombed out before launching.
TWILIGHT ZONE AHOY!
Just run the VisualPinball executable as a fucking administrator, job done. It popped into my head yesterday and I just remembered to give it a try now.
There must be something around the vbscripts that Vista/Win7 doesn't like unless you run it with elevated privileges, as it was always when processing the scripts that it bombed out before launching.
TWILIGHT ZONE AHOY!
Right - after C64 stuff lets see if I can package up a set of pin tables for the next challenge !
zaphod79 wrote:
Right - after C64 stuff lets see if I can package up a set of pin tables for the next challenge !
Bit of refinement on this, it can still be a bit twitchy, especially if you load more than one table per session. Quitting out of VP and then loading it again for each table seems to make it happier.
Setting it to Windows XP Service Pack 2 compatibility mode, and checking the box for it to run with administrator privileges, seems to properly be the charm.
The VP 8.1 consolidated installer should do the job zaphod, then all you/me/we (
) would need to do is add in the required ROM and table files.I'll do a test run on Mrs AE's laptop to make sure I'm simulating a 'clean' install, and post back here as to the simplest way to get it all running.
Banzai Run's music - pure heaven
I done got me a YouTube channel. Mostly for my own masturbation purposes really, but it's important to share jackpotty goodness!
Averaging about £100 profit every Sunday evening at the moment, only started filming the wins the last couple of weeks though. If I could be arsed to travel around a bit there's definitely more to be made, but I just can't be doing with going back to that kind of discipline.
http://www.youtube.com/user/chopleyspinach
Averaging about £100 profit every Sunday evening at the moment, only started filming the wins the last couple of weeks though. If I could be arsed to travel around a bit there's definitely more to be made, but I just can't be doing with going back to that kind of discipline.
http://www.youtube.com/user/chopleyspinach
Blimey.. good going there. I've never really played any of the £70 machines, or indeed most of the modern machines with features as I could never be bothered learning/finding out the best ways to play them.
(Oh, and 98 days without gambling now, so I'm not about to find out)
(Oh, and 98 days without gambling now, so I'm not about to find out)
devilman wrote:
Blimey.. good going there. I've never really played any of the £70 machines, or indeed most of the modern machines with features as I could never be bothered learning/finding out the best ways to play them.
(Oh, and 98 days without gambling now, so I'm not about to find out)
(Oh, and 98 days without gambling now, so I'm not about to find out)
Absolutely stay quit devilman - over three months is a great achievement so don't mess with that
I'm just getting a little bit of payback at the moment with the £70ers which I have pretty much sussed out and also now have the discipline to walk away from one that's dead or not quite ready to go (which back in the bad old days I could never do). I'd need to carry on winning £100 per week for the next ten years or so to get back to even over a lifetime, it's just a personal satisfaction thing mostly, which is why I'm not going to start driving around the island's pubs to find 'doable' machines.
The £70ers are pretty brutal, catch one wrong and it'll take £200 over the back and give you a flat £70 for your trouble. I got a proper kicking off one a couple of months ago (£150 down) but learned enough from that to get the profiles pretty much sussed, and haven't come unstuck since then.
It's keeping me in beer and petrol money overall, not exactly lottery winnings but not to be sniffed at either
I seem to remember reading this kind of thing before. Many times from many people. Don't get sucked in again man.
Nemmie wrote:
:facepalm:
I seem to remember reading this kind of thing before. Many times from many people. Don't get sucked in again man.
I seem to remember reading this kind of thing before. Many times from many people. Don't get sucked in again man.
Nothing can possibly go wrong!
Yeah, think on.
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
The £70ers are pretty brutal, catch one wrong and it'll take £200 over the back and give you a flat £70 for your trouble. I got a proper kicking off one a couple of months ago (£150 down) but learned enough from that to get the profiles pretty much sussed, and haven't come unstuck since then.
The only one I did play was a Bullion Bar type clone called Pure Gold (I think). I've never seen it pay a jackpot, although on the feature I have seen the combined win value reach £70 once. It also has a Mega Streak type feature which I've never seen anyone get either.
I've also put £250 through it in one session. Me=mug.
Zardoz wrote:
Yeah, think on.
I've had consistent periods of winning in the past too, so it's not unprecedented. Indeed there was one time I quit (going back 8 or 9 years now) simply because they were taking up too much time and demanding too much travelling around, I scrupulously updated an Excel spreadsheet with wins/losses to make sure I wasn't deluding myself.
In fact, just had a little search, I've still got the spreadsheet in my backups, it was actually 11 years ago
And yes I do have backups going back 11 years, because I'm that sad.Anyway, point remains, that after an initial loss period where I was practising the craft, I consistently made a profit on the buggers, although back then the jackpot was £15, not £70.
Attachment:
geek.jpg
devilman wrote:
The only one I did play was a Bullion Bar type clone called Pure Gold (I think). I've never seen it pay a jackpot, although on the feature I have seen the combined win value reach £70 once. It also has a Mega Streak type feature which I've never seen anyone get either.
I've also put £250 through it in one session. Me=mug.
I've also put £250 through it in one session. Me=mug.
Is that a lo-tech or a hi-tech?
I'm sticking rigidly to certain hi-tech AWPs in pubs where I know the staff and/or their mates aren't into them.
I also think that certain Barcrests and Reds have some kind of rip on them at the moment, there's an Indiana Jones machine in particular (I've come across them at more than one location) that is consistently dead to the extent that it makes me think they've been hammered with some kind of manipulator. I don't know what it is so I'm steering clear of them now.
I forget what the definition is, but I suspect lo-tech. It's a bit of a weird one actually - it's one of those with a second reel at the top as the feature and on the normal reels there's no actual way of getting the jackpot - the highest win on there is £15 and anything higher has to be won on the feature.
This must be like what my gf hears when I talk to her about computers...
Trooper wrote:
This must be like what my gf hears when I talk to her about computers...
Yeah it is a bit of a 'world unto itself' I must confess
There is proper money to be made out of fruit machines though, over the years they've had loads of mistakes in the code and/or bent programmers putting all kinds of dodgy shit into them, or just good old fashioned uber-players pulling stuff off that the coders had never anticipated.
I've pretty much worked out the profiles now for a few of the £70 jackpot machines, they definitely have a few 'tells' that you can look out for, so I now know when it's worth forcing them out - to the extent that I'll turn down a £70 jackpot offer and keep on pushing for the megastreak, as they're the ones that can go big. (£156 in the clip I posted on the previous page.)
From the other viewpoint, I like not knowing anything about newer machines - it means I'm less tempted to invest the time in figuring them out.
devilman wrote:
From the other viewpoint, I like not knowing anything about newer machines - it means I'm less tempted to invest the time in figuring them out.
From a gameplay perspective you're really not missing anything at all devilman, the £70ers are absolutely fucking dreadful - only a masochist would be able to glean any actual enjoyment from playing them.
I stick to the ones I know and ruthlessly just seek to make money out of them, and that's it. On £1 per play (which is what I have them at when I'm going for them), you literally can't put the money in fast enough.
As I said to my chum last night, 'I ain't here for the view motherfucker!'
Basically, stay quit and stay clear!
I'll drop them like a hot potato when I stop making money out of them. AtrocityExhibition wrote:
As I said to my chum last night, 'I ain't here for the view motherfucker!'
Now post the graph from your internet fruit machine experiment.
Nemmie wrote:
Now post the graph from your internet fruit machine experiment.
I didn't do a spreadsheet for that one, just morosely wrote down my losses with a pen and piece of paper as the weeks dragged on.
Finished up about £3000 in the red, although I was nearly £1000 up at the high point.
And I had all my brilliant theories about it too! Which proved to be wrong.
I know and I hope that if your theories go wrong this time (due to chip revisions or the like) you stop playing immediately.
Although you do have an advantage being in the Isle of Man if you lived in Suburban London where every body is out to make a buck in the easiest way they can I am sure you would struggle to make any money regularly.
Long may it last.
Although you do have an advantage being in the Isle of Man if you lived in Suburban London where every body is out to make a buck in the easiest way they can I am sure you would struggle to make any money regularly.
Long may it last.
£3000 is a lot of red.
I lost £37,000 (approximately) Between 18 and 23.
Which if you take in to account inflation in the last 16 years is probably an amount that I dare not think about in today's terms.
Which if you take in to account inflation in the last 16 years is probably an amount that I dare not think about in today's terms.
Craster wrote:
£3000 is a lot of red.
But I had SCIENCE on my side!
Admittedly it turned out to be bad science, but still.
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Craster wrote:
£3000 is a lot of red.
But I had SCIENCE on my side!
Admittedly it turned out to be bad science, but still.
So basically, it was your £100 jackpot watered down to 10p. But it had a memory of being a hundred quid, and that was the main thing.
Plissken wrote:
So basically, it was your £100 jackpot watered down to 10p. But it had a memory of being a hundred quid, and that was the main thing.
I don't get it
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Plissken wrote:
So basically, it was your £100 jackpot watered down to 10p. But it had a memory of being a hundred quid, and that was the main thing.
I don't get it
A joke on the bad science part relating it to homeopathy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy where instead of medicine or even natural remedy's instead things are diluted until they contain absolutely none of the original ingredient but contain the 'memory' of it.
zaphod79 wrote:
A joke on the bad science part relating it to homeopathy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy where instead of medicine or even natural remedy's instead things are diluted until they contain absolutely none of the original ingredient but contain the 'memory' of it.
Ahhh right I see, I'd probably have got that but for the percentages involved, doesn't homoeopathy basically end up at 'one drop of 'medicine' in every ocean on the planet', like 0.000000000001% or something utterly fucking ridiculous like that, so is water in a scientific sense.
10p out of £100 is a more meaningful percentage, hence it didn't click, although the 'memory' thing should have given me a clue as well. I look at things too literally sometimes, especially when it comes to fruities
That James Randi dude did something about it a few years ago..... Tap tap tap....
Ahhhh yes:
I noticed they had a 'homoeopathy rack' in Holland & Barrett the last time I went in - £4.50 for little bottles of water! That's nearly more expensive than the average restaurant.
Enjoy you win streak while it lasts
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
'homoeopathy rack'
Is that a flat chest with diluted tit essence?
Tangentially related, my YouTube channel is positively brimming with videos of 'real' physical fruit machine action, and also online slot machine action, where I tested my awesome theory out.
http://www.youtube.com/user/chopleyspinach
http://www.youtube.com/user/chopleyspinach
Quote:
JackpotParty do a 'Double Your Play' promotion the last full week of every month, whereby they match a deposit 100% up to a maximum of £200, with a 20x wagering requirement.
What I'm trying to work out are the chances of basically getting some 'free slotting' (or near enough) on the promotion.
Here are my numbers..... I have chosen a small stake to reduce variance and increase the number of spins. As more spins = less variance and closer to the expected average return over time.
(I am using the game 'Bruce Lee' as my example slot, on 30p per spin, 95% average return.)
Deposit £200 to get the maximum £200 match-up bonus, so £400 to play with, but a £4000 wagering requirement before any withdrawal can be made.
£4000 = 400,000 pence
400,000 pence at 30p per spin = 13333 spins required to meet the wagering requirements
At 95% average return each 30p spin 'costs' 1.5p (5% of 30 is 1.5)
£400 = 40,000 pence, so should 'buy' 26,666 spins (40,000 divided by 1.5)
26,666 spins x 30p = £7999 wagered
AVERAGE luck should therefore meet the wagering requirements with the original £200 deposit intact and available for withdrawal.
These numbers aren't precise, because at Jackpot Party the payout on all the slots is split 92% for the base game, and 3% to the progressives, so for the above theory to hold true you'd have to hit at least the bottom progressive jackpot (usually around £50-£100 with the bonus presents taken into account) more than once, which is probably unlikely.
And of course, whether applying to the base game or the progressives, 26000 spins isn't enough to achieve a true average return, so good luck will see better results, bad luck will see worse results.
What I'm trying to work out are the chances of basically getting some 'free slotting' (or near enough) on the promotion.
Here are my numbers..... I have chosen a small stake to reduce variance and increase the number of spins. As more spins = less variance and closer to the expected average return over time.
(I am using the game 'Bruce Lee' as my example slot, on 30p per spin, 95% average return.)
Deposit £200 to get the maximum £200 match-up bonus, so £400 to play with, but a £4000 wagering requirement before any withdrawal can be made.
£4000 = 400,000 pence
400,000 pence at 30p per spin = 13333 spins required to meet the wagering requirements
At 95% average return each 30p spin 'costs' 1.5p (5% of 30 is 1.5)
£400 = 40,000 pence, so should 'buy' 26,666 spins (40,000 divided by 1.5)
26,666 spins x 30p = £7999 wagered
AVERAGE luck should therefore meet the wagering requirements with the original £200 deposit intact and available for withdrawal.
These numbers aren't precise, because at Jackpot Party the payout on all the slots is split 92% for the base game, and 3% to the progressives, so for the above theory to hold true you'd have to hit at least the bottom progressive jackpot (usually around £50-£100 with the bonus presents taken into account) more than once, which is probably unlikely.
And of course, whether applying to the base game or the progressives, 26000 spins isn't enough to achieve a true average return, so good luck will see better results, bad luck will see worse results.
Do you always watch the amounts go up like that or was that for the purposes of the video? I normally skip everything!
devilman wrote:
Do you always watch the amounts go up like that or was that for the purposes of the video? I normally skip everything!
Nah I always watch the features/wins/etc in full, that's the payoff for watching the bloody reels spin so many times!
The Bruce Lee video embedded above I was expecting to go big as soon as it dropped in, hence my voiceover to that effect, but it was still good to watch win after win drop in
Chuffed for you mate, but I can't help but feel that the reason why these online casino companies make these offers is to get people into the habit of playing their slots habitually? We're dealing with clever, devious people here and as you've said yourself, in order to make this likely to pay, you have to play very small stakes and recycle wins again and again. It's a serious time investment but more worryingly, a major "time exposure" to fruit machines - all those old neural pathways of gambling being restarted and reinforced in the case of the ex-addict, or initiated in the case of someone who's playing machines for the first time. (How likely is it that someone who has rarely, if ever played machines, would be doing this though? I suspect they know this and it's all factored into their overall strategy?)
For me, knowing how 'into' fruities I was 10 years ago, I just wouldn't touch these with a bargepole, even if I knew I was guaranteed to make £500 a month or whatever.
For me, knowing how 'into' fruities I was 10 years ago, I just wouldn't touch these with a bargepole, even if I knew I was guaranteed to make £500 a month or whatever.
Cashed out with £700 profit from the first month's experiment, although it did take around 25 hours (!) of solid slotting at the lowest stakes possible on the games (20-40p).
Wagering £7000 at those stakes is, needless to say, a pretty slow process.
I've spent £400 of it on a new laptop, £100 of it on a tank of petrol and some oil for the car, and I have £200 left over to try the experiment again this month.
I suspect I'll get wiped out but one must try!
Wagering £7000 at those stakes is, needless to say, a pretty slow process.
I've spent £400 of it on a new laptop, £100 of it on a tank of petrol and some oil for the car, and I have £200 left over to try the experiment again this month.
I suspect I'll get wiped out but one must try!
Nice bit of luck that.. be interesting to see if it lasts. Some of the online casinos have some brutal wager requirements. Depending on the software, I'd sometimes have multiple machines running in autoplay, but that's also a good way to watch the money drain pretty quickly too.. particularly on a quid a spin.
Some of the online casinos have some brutal wager requirements. Depending on the software, I'd sometimes have multiple machines running in autoplay, but that's also a good way to watch the money drain pretty quickly too.. particularly on a quid a spin. devilman wrote:
Nice bit of luck that.. be interesting to see if it lasts. Some of the online casinos have some brutal wager requirements. Depending on the software, I'd sometimes have multiple machines running in autoplay, but that's also a good way to watch the money drain pretty quickly too.. particularly on a quid a spin.
Some of the online casinos have some brutal wager requirements. Depending on the software, I'd sometimes have multiple machines running in autoplay, but that's also a good way to watch the money drain pretty quickly too.. particularly on a quid a spin.I've been crunching the numbers for the Jackpot Party progressive system (as best as it's possible to in the absence of verifiable odds), and am increasingly reaching the conclusion that I just got obscenely lucky to walk away £700 up.
It's the way the progressives are biased towards higher stakes players (of which I am not one) which is going to be the killer.
I suspect a total wipe out with the experiment this month, to the extent that I think I'll just not bother at all and think myself lucky to have walked away from the site in profit.
Then again I might get pissed one evening and change my mind
