PC gaming hardware thread.
Takes down the torture rack.
Reply
Sir Taxalot wrote:
I'm starting to think about a PC upgrade now that I've got a bit of disposable cash. I don't game on the PC, but would like something faster than what I have got now, but only if it's 1) a decent improvement; and 2) not a lot of cash.

I currently have a socket 939 AMD X2 3800, a radeon X1800GTO, 4gig RAM (I think it's PC3200, DDR, 4x1gig sticks), asus a8n-e motherboard.

For about 200 quid, maybe a bit more, what could I get that would be a decent step up?

TBH I'd be quite tempted to keep the graphics card as it works OK for what I want (although I might be tempted to get a 30-40 quid passive cooled cheapy to cut down on some noise). I gather I am unlikely to be able to use my RAM in newer mobos though.

Like I say, not really interested in bleeding edge gaming; not bothered about mad1337hax overclocking either.

Oh, PSU.... I have a 5/600W thermaltake something or other, I forget the model.


I just had a butchers and your board is the socket 939. Meaning yes, it is DDR1 meaning you can't just chuck one of the newer Athlons or Phenoms in. Shame.

It's the ram that's the killer at the moment however all is not lost.

Seeing as you don't seem to be gaming or overly worried about crunching serious ammount of data then I reccomend this

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/AMD-Athl ... 95W-Retail

Great CPU, quad cores, great price. For a board I suggest

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/DFI-JR-7 ... -Micro-ATX

Because that's about half of what that would normally be worth.

Memory

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/4GB-%282 ... S-5-5-5-18

So all in about £220 for a quad core CPU that clocked to 3ghz will outperform an I3 with a very good high end Xfire motherboard :)

Sadly due to the ram prices I couldnt make it cheaper. I could save you £20 on the CPU but that would mean dropping to dual core and if you want to see a significant boost over what you have now I wouldn't really suggest doing that. I did check to make sure that DFI deffo supports AM3 and Athlon 2 X4 and it does :)
Does anyone know if the Corsair H50 water cooler doohickey thingamajig is any good? I'm thinking about getting one to replace my Titan Fenrir CPU cooler, which I may consider selling if anyone was interested. It's the red 'special edition' version rather than the silver one shown in that review (the colour and the fact it also has Socket 1156 fittings are the only difference). There's no doubting it's credentials as a cooler, but the thing is massive, totally covering one of the DIMM sockets on my motherboard and slightly pushing on the memory stick installed next to it, which I'm understandably a tad nervous about.

Interested parties probably wouldn't have the issues with the sheer size of it that I am, as my motherboard is a Socket 1156 mobo with the CPU much closer to the DIMM sockets than you normally find on other boards. Socket 775 and AM2/2+/3 owners would probably have no such issues with it. And, well, it does look quite cool if that sort of thing floats your boat.
Zio wrote:
Does anyone know if the Corsair H50 water cooler doohickey thingamajig is any good? I'm thinking about getting one to replace my Titan Fenrir CPU cooler, which I may consider selling if anyone was interested. It's the red 'special edition' version rather than the silver one shown in that review (the colour and the fact it also has Socket 1156 fittings are the only difference). There's no doubting it's credentials as a cooler, but the thing is massive, totally covering one of the DIMM sockets on my motherboard and slightly pushing on the memory stick installed next to it, which I'm understandably a tad nervous about.

Interested parties probably wouldn't have the issues with the sheer size of it that I am, as my motherboard is a Socket 1156 mobo with the CPU much closer to the DIMM sockets than you normally find on other boards. Socket 775 and AM2/2+/3 owners would probably have no such issues with it. And, well, it does look quite cool if that sort of thing floats your boat.


Yes it's very good because I have one :D haha.

Custom PC best of award too. Bear in mind things won't get that much cooler over a good air cooler. But then, the corsair costs about the same and is pretty much silent.

Can't reply to much as it's hard to read atm. I'm currently downloading the latest driver for my cards.

6200LE came thismorning. The Asrock sprang to life. I couldn't flash it right away because I used the wrong ISO joilet thing when making the flash disc so DOS refused to see it. Not a problem with AMD boards though, I simply installed Windows and ran Winflash.

Shut him down and put in one of the 5770s and almost shot my lot when I pressed the power button and the PC sprang to life.

Still installing drivers ETC and have a lot of wiring and tidying to do, but getting there. I have gone back to a 100% genuine Vista HP too as my 7 only has limited activations.

I'll give you more info on the Corsair later Zio but yeah, they're fucking awesome.
Taxalot. I am very close to giving this Asrock board a firm thumbs up. If so it costs almost half of the DFI.
That's good to hear, thanks. Although I'm actually thinking of just waiting a bit longer until another 'CPU-generation' comes along and gets cheaper, maybe.
I had a poke at the overclocking options on the JC board last night. I like the split options to keep memory at stock speeds. I have now gained a massive... 130mhz! Of course, this was just a poke around. Also, I quietend the screaming chipset fan by reducing it to 50%. Damn, I wish I'd done that a few weeks ago
Sir Taxalot wrote:
That's good to hear, thanks. Although I'm actually thinking of just waiting a bit longer until another 'CPU-generation' comes along and gets cheaper, maybe.


AMD are not changing sockets until 2011 at the earliest. Intel have literally just released their latest and they were all I3 models slower than the quad core Athlon counterparts and also £40 more expensive.

Not sure what is coming and when now in honesty..

So I've been beavering away with drivers and doing wiring. This is just awesome :)

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So according to CCC the CrossfireX should be enabled and working. Obviously now I am installing DX11 for Vista and Dirt 2, so I will know soon enough :)

This is good too. I was kinda concerned that this mobo might not be as good on the SATA front. Hilariously its faster than the Asus.

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This was expected. Though again a relief because the Hypertransport is different on this board (because it's older).

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And I now have confirmation that 7 needs lots of fixing. Firstly I had issues with Media center in in (that I never got fixed) and secondly my internet has been ass. Now I know it's down to shite drivers.

Image
DavPaz wrote:
I had a poke at the overclocking options on the JC board last night. I like the split options to keep memory at stock speeds. I have now gained a massive... 130mhz! Of course, this was just a poke around. Also, I quietend the screaming chipset fan by reducing it to 50%. Damn, I wish I'd done that a few weeks ago


I wish I'd fucking known that :DD

I hate small fans.92mm are bad enough but anything smaller is like having a fucking gnat in your ear 24/7.
JohnCoffey wrote:
Sir Taxalot wrote:
That's good to hear, thanks. Although I'm actually thinking of just waiting a bit longer until another 'CPU-generation' comes along and gets cheaper, maybe.


AMD are not changing sockets until 2011 at the earliest. Intel have literally just released their latest and they were all I3 models slower than the quad core Athlon counterparts and also £40 more expensive.

Not sure what is coming and when now in honesty..


Ignore i3, i5 appears to be the way to go. Most of them are dual-core chips with Hyper-threading enabled (giving you four 'virtual cores' for programmes written to take advantage of it), but the Core i5-750 is a proper quad core chip without Hyper-threading. A Core i5-750 and a half-decent P55 motherboard should not cost significantly more than a AMD Phenom II solution, yet the performance figures seem to indicate it's worth paying the extra. Also, remember that while the chip runs at a stock 2.66GHz, Intel's built in Turbo Boost technology automatically overclocks the chip where possible and safe to do so.

I'll post some benchmarks of my i5-750 setup when I get home. I've only really been concerned with getting things up and running and am overclocking 'only' to 3.2GHz at the moment, the chip should be safe to overclock to around 4.2GHz if you know what you're doing and have decent cooling. But even at 3.2GHz, I've been incredibly impressed with it's performance.

Actually, I ran it through 3DMark Vantage last night and took a screenshot on my phone (the graphics card is a GTX 280)...
Attachment:
09-02-10.jpg
That's different to the benchmark I run. It's 3dmark but 06. Last run I scored about 17900. Not sure if I can install it on here as it came with the Asus and may check, but I'll give it a go :)
I'm pretty sure the trial version of 3DMark vantage, which you can get from http://www.futuremark.com should be enough to get you a 3DMark score - I only ran it on the default 'Performance' setting. I'm planning on having a muck about tonight when I get home to see what I can get out of it, so I took that piccy last night to have a baseline to work from.

Edit: just checked and you'll be able to run the same test as I did once only with the free trial. It requires Windows Vista or Windows 7 to run though as it is a DirectX 10 test, so obviously you'll need a DX10 capable graphics card too. So I think you'll be safe to run it JC!
Vantage obviously works fine. However, all of the magazines use 3dmark 06 as their test bed.

I'm just installing it now. Obviously don't want to install any others due to the SSD (it slows if you install/remove loads of apps) so one will do :)

Right, installed and put in my serial.. Let's see what this can do then :)
JohnCoffey wrote:
And I now have confirmation that 7 needs lots of fixing. Firstly I had issues with Media center in in (that I never got fixed) and secondly my internet has been ass. Now I know it's down to shite drivers.


?
Pod wrote:
JohnCoffey wrote:
And I now have confirmation that 7 needs lots of fixing. Firstly I had issues with Media center in in (that I never got fixed) and secondly my internet has been ass. Now I know it's down to shite drivers.


?


That part puzzled me as well but I was not brave enough to ask.
Pod wrote:
JohnCoffey wrote:
And I now have confirmation that 7 needs lots of fixing. Firstly I had issues with Media center in in (that I never got fixed) and secondly my internet has been ass. Now I know it's down to shite drivers.


?


My network card's drivers were obviously wanked. Either that or during the switchover to 7 they have sorted out my connection. It's been crap for weeks.

Any way.

Before

Image

After.

Image

So I think it's fair to assume Crossfire is working :D
Right I ran 3dmark 06 and scored 16900. I realised that -

A. My CPU wasn't overclocked any more and

B. That it doesn't support XfireX. When I go to system info it says I have no linked display cards.

So I'm downloading Vantage now :)
OK sorted. I downloaded Vantage and gave it a run. I'm 100% confident and happy that my Crossfire is kicking now.

For comparisson here is my specs and info on the buses etc.

AMD Phenom 2 940 @ 3.5ghz (bus is left at stock 200MHZ and I have simply used the unlocked MP to wind it to 17.5x)
4GB of DDR2 running stock speed, which is 399mhz reported in CPUZ on memory spec.
Corsair X32 SSD.
Crossfired 5770s running stock speeds with the latest cats.
Windows Vista Home Premium (32bit).
Realtek onboard sound (soon to go as it's causing Fallout3 to crash during load. I did some googling and it seems its the fuckin drivers. Thank god for Terratec !).

Image

To be honest I am absolutely astonished, nay, dumbfounded by the results. A £33 motherboard with £240 worth of GPUs and DDR2 running a £120 Phenom 2. There is absolutely no way in hell on a warm day that my Phenom should be able to even get within a mile of that I5 (esp at the clock level you have it at) nor should my ram be able to touch yours. So I am pretty confident the result is down to the Crossfired 5770s. I also know full well that 58FPS in Dirt 2 in DX11 with everything on full is quite remarkable, as my 280GTX (with higher clocks that yours) did the same in DX9.

£250 well spent then really. And I have a wicked motherboard for rig two :)
Infact I just compared GPU scores (looking at both pics properly) and it's blazingly obvious what's going on here.

CrossfireX fucking owns is what.
Definitely. The CPU score is a bit different though, eh? :D To be fair 3DMark Vantage is probably not the best way to benchmark the processor. Your GPU score is incredible though, and I'll bet both those two cards combined are still probably running cooler than my single GTX 280.
Zio wrote:
Definitely. The CPU score is a bit different though, eh? :D To be fair 3DMark Vantage is probably not the best way to benchmark the processor. Your GPU score is incredible though, and I'll bet both those two cards combined are still probably running cooler than my single GTX 280.


As I said before the 940 in games with DDR2 is about level peggings with the I5. Most of it now comes down to your GPU set up. Crunching media? yes, you would tell a huge difference. I took all of that into account when I got the 940. I really wanted I5. However, like you I had really nice DDR2 ram and I could not justify spending £120 more on a chip board and new ram when I already had ram that could perform well with a recent CPU.

As for card temps? one is 51C the other 48c. the 51 is the top one with less airflow. They never get hotter even under maximum load and obviously the bottom one is cooler for two reasons. First it has space under it's centrifuge and secondly it's right in the path of the 120mm front fan :) . I fucking love them though, that's for sure :D

I have had to decide against the Corsair to be honest. And, I forgot to tell you it's only weak point. If you only have one 120mm rear exhaust it cripples the airflow out the back of the machine being that it's a radiator. So I advise against using one if you only have one fan mount there.

I'm really glad I decided to keep the Noctua now as it's only giving a 3c rise in temps which were well under control any way. And I only have the one fan on it this time (adding two was snake oil) and I can't even hear it.

Even after a 30min Dirt 2 session my room was still nowhere near as hot as it got with the 280 in here.

Pic. The mobo is slightly smaller and due to the adapters I have to use looks a bit cack. The airflow is top notch and everything is well tidy though :) I also reccomend the Noctua (the 92mm one) as it's big but not stupid. However, firstly they don't make them any more and secondly I don't know if you can get a mount kit for your I5. I certainly don't have one for that or the I7.

Actually looking at the photo rather than stuffing my head inside I think I have done pretty admirably really.

Image
hehe I fixed Fallout 3 :D

I forgot I had created those DLLs with Alchemy to sort the sound out. Any way, put everything back to ultra and even put the FSAA to 8x (something even the 280 wasn't happy with) and it fuckin flies along. I can definitely get used to this shit :D
Welcome to the new power generation. :)
Nemmie wrote:
Welcome to the new power generation. :)


I'm so fucking relieved dude. Seriously I was beginning to wonder when sitting here looking at that large pile of parts if it was going to work at all.

At least now I can move onto a second machine that I can bugger with til my heart's delight :D
Ahhhhh, a splendid night of gaming :D

Sadly I discovered a bug in the latest Cats and going back to older ones fucks Crossfire. It's nothing serious, just the odd screen flicker and sound pop (even with Vsync on). Still didn't hinder my fun :)

I also realised what AMD Fusion was. It's a program you install and press a button on. At which point it basically kills every process your PC is running so you can launch the game with nothing running underneath it. Good idea ! It seems to know what processes to stop too :) Nice part is when you're done you press it again and it re-enables everything and even signs you back into Skype/msn etc.

Very cool :)

Fallout 3 performance is just off the hook. Shame I only have Point Lookout to do really.
DavPaz wrote:
CATS?!?!


"You have no chance to survive make your time."
Didn't I ever tell any one what powers my PC?

Didn't you find it the least bit suspicious that there was cat fur on your packing Dave?

Think I am gonna go for the 1gb 4850 for £80, then I can get a new power supply too.
Well my cousin came over with his 700w Alienware PSU today. It's so darn nice I have ordered the last one. For £25 you will not find a finer PSU.

It's actually 750w max with a stable 700w. It also has that 80 something thing on it meaning its over 80% efficient. Lovely it is.
What's "nice" about the PSU? What quantitative value do you get from this, other than knowing you now have 300 excess watts, rather than 200?
Well, JC is running two graphics cards, so I'd have thought a 700w PSU would be the minimum he'd want for that, no? PSU's are not something I know a huge amount about, other than a 550w Antec PSU I bought for my PC had to go back to the shop since it was incapable of powering my PC with two graphics cards (though worked perfectly if you took one of the cards out).
Zio wrote:
Well, JC is running two graphics cards, so I'd have thought a 700w PSU would be the minimum he'd want for that, no? PSU's are not something I know a huge amount about, other than a 550w Antec PSU I bought for my PC had to go back to the shop since it was incapable of powering my PC with two graphics cards (though worked perfectly if you took one of the cards out).

But I've not heard him complain about a lack of power, so if for that, why?

Or it's going in the second pc, which, as far as I know, doesn't have 2 gfx cards. I think the suspicion is that by being an alienware PSU, itt's now more desirable, but for no other reason.

But, if it is actually needed for some reason, £25 isn't a bad price by any means.
It is indeed for the second PC. Which at the moment should be -

Asus Crosshair 2.
Athlon 2 X2 2.6ghz
2gb DDR2
Water cooling
256mb 8600GS
Terratec Aureon sound card
Raid 0 baracudas
DVDRW

So by no means cack and plenty of. As for why I want the AW PSU? Find me a solid well built 700w psu for £25. Also, any one who knows knows that.

1. Always buy about double the wattage you think you need. That way things run cooler.
2. Never buy cheap PSU.

The fact it's got Alienware on it means nothing, mostly because it's made by Delta. I just don't want to run expensive hardware on a shite low wattage psu.
JohnCoffey wrote:
Also, any one who knows knows that.
1. Always buy about double the wattage you think you need. That way things run cooler.
Damn those pesky laws of physics, always proving you wrong.
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
JohnCoffey wrote:
Also, any one who knows knows that.
1. Always buy about double the wattage you think you need. That way things run cooler.
Damn those pesky laws of physics, always proving you wrong.


So a 700w psu with 300w draw on it won't run cooler than a 300w psu with a 300w draw on it?

I thought the more you strained electronics the hotter they became. Infact, so did two publications I read.
JohnCoffey wrote:
So a 700w psu with 300w draw on it won't run cooler than a 300w psu with a 300w draw on it?
Not if they are otherwise identical, no. Suppose they both are 80% efficient. That means that if the PC is drawing 250W, both PSUs are pulling 312W from the mains. The balance of 62W is dissipated as heat energy within the PSU as a side effect of the tranformers. The same amount of heat energy in each PSU is dissapated.

Quote:
I thought the more you strained electronics the hotter they became. Infact, so did two publications I read.
These are either publications written by journalists with no knowledge of actual science, or you've misunderstood.
Pod wrote:
What's "nice" about the PSU? What quantitative value do you get from this, other than knowing you now have 300 excess watts, rather than 200?


It's really heavy and solid. The entire back and front ends of it are mesh so it has great airflow. The cables are super long. I mean I'm talking about a two foot 24pin power cable.

All of the cables detatch from the body of the PSU itself. Meaning, once all the wires are ran and routed through the case (and cable tied in place) I can easily remove them to remove the PSU to clean it. The cables are all wrapped in black mesh so are easy to route and stay tidy.

It has a safety cutout button, kinda like one of those power breaker things so I assume it has a circuit breaker. It has a series of LEDs that tell you the current state of the PSU.

It has 10 SATA power connectors and about 8 molex aswell as 2 6 pin PCIE power cables and 2 8pin PCIE power cables. It also has a 4pin ATX power plug and the 8pin one.

Could you find me a £25 psu with all of those features ? So there you have it. That's why I was impressed with it and that's why I want it. I am also impressed that it was absolutely brand spanking new. It might have an Alienware sticker on it but it is made by Delta. A name I respect very much in the world of computer parts.
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
JohnCoffey wrote:
So a 700w psu with 300w draw on it won't run cooler than a 300w psu with a 300w draw on it?
Not if they are otherwise identical, no. Suppose they both are 80% efficient. That means that if the PC is drawing 250W, both PSUs are pulling 312W from the mains. The balance of 62W is dissipated as heat energy within the PSU as a side effect of the tranformers. The same amount of heat energy in each PSU is dissapated.

Quote:
I thought the more you strained electronics the hotter they became. Infact, so did two publications I read.
These are either publications written by journalists with no knowledge of actual science, or you've misunderstood.


Probably the latter. Still, I suppose in a way my ignorance is good because I've never ever used tinpot power supplies and thus in all the years of computing I've only ever lost one PC to a PSU going bang (and that was probably because the wife spilled grape juice all over the PC whilst it was on). :)
So yeah if any one needs a psu I give my thumbs up for what they're asking for them :)

Side view. See how long the wires are, how well wrapped they are and how many there are.

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Back view. Safety cut out and status LED.

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Fan and detatchable cables.

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This is the 700w one that was £25. However, they have a 750 for £29.99 and a 1kw for £49.99
Is that including shipping?

Where from?
JohnCoffey wrote:
Could you find me a £25 psu with all of those features ?


TBH I was under the impression that I couldn't find any PSU for £25. Where did you get it from? :o
There's an ebay seller who gets Dell and Alienware stuff in bulk. He's had these PSUs for many months now. Doesn't help he's too lazy to put up a real pic of them (instead using one of an AT power supply from about 50 years ago lol).

My cousin wanted to pep up his puter. It has a 2.2ghz Phenom x4 in and 4gb ram but had a weak gpu and psu. So I linked him to the 700w one and he ordered it. When I saw it I ordered one for my second machine :)

They're all out of those now, but they have a 750w for £29.99

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/750-watt-Alienwar ... 27aca9289d

And the 1kw one for £49.99

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1000-Watt-Alienwa ... 27aca92348

The shipping is kinda high. But let's say £45 total for the 750w. You wouldn't even get a good, quality branded PSU (Corsair, say) for that for a 400w.

The 1kw? Sure it'll cost you £65 delivered, but you can pretty much triple that when you go shopping for 1kw psus. They're mega money.
I was thinking of getting one of these when I go to Boston:
http://www.svc.com/ocz600gxssli-b.html
comes to £29.30
JohnCoffey wrote:
There's an ebay seller who gets Dell and Alienware stuff in bulk. He's had these PSUs for many months now. Doesn't help he's too lazy to put up a real pic of them (instead using one of an AT power supply from about 50 years ago lol).

My cousin wanted to pep up his puter. It has a 2.2ghz Phenom x4 in and 4gb ram but had a weak gpu and psu. So I linked him to the 700w one and he ordered it. When I saw it I ordered one for my second machine :)

They're all out of those now, but they have a 750w for £29.99

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/750-watt-Alienwar ... 27aca9289d


They're marked as used? :o
Pod wrote:
JohnCoffey wrote:
There's an ebay seller who gets Dell and Alienware stuff in bulk. He's had these PSUs for many months now. Doesn't help he's too lazy to put up a real pic of them (instead using one of an AT power supply from about 50 years ago lol).

My cousin wanted to pep up his puter. It has a 2.2ghz Phenom x4 in and 4gb ram but had a weak gpu and psu. So I linked him to the 700w one and he ordered it. When I saw it I ordered one for my second machine :)

They're all out of those now, but they have a 750w for £29.99

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/750-watt-Alienwar ... 27aca9289d


They're marked as used? :o


The law I would imagine. They scratch very easily and I could tell the one my cousin got had never been mounted before. It also stinks of new.
So with the new system means a new chassis. I've spent hours looking over cases and have narrowed it down to two.

First choice is the Cooler Master elite 334.

Image

The machine that's now my main gaming PC is all AMD/ATI. The other one will be mostly Nvidia (chipset, graphics and so on). I also have a couple of green cathodes doing absolutely nothing.

My second choice is probably the one I will go with though. It's the Xclio Propeller. Basically a nice clean lined simple case with a 36cm fan whacked in the side like a whacking great air conditioner :D

Image

Image

Image

Image

Best part is it's only £26 on Scan :D
Just must sleep 1 foot below the ceiling due to all the PC bits and cases under the bed by now.
But despite all those parts, he couldn't assemble a working machine to flash his bios or f-pr0t his tarball or whatever he needed to do the other day.
JohnCoffey wrote:
Image

Best part is it's only £26 on Scan :D

No, the best part is that it looks like an old fashioned telly from the side.
Zio wrote:
Street Fighter IV I know for a fact runs at a very steady 60FPS with everything on maximum at 1080p (4xAA) and Dirt 2 at about 70FPS with everything at maximum. And this is running my processor at 3.2GHz, when I have it on good authority that my board and CPU combination can easily hit 4.2GHz with the proper cooling applied. So I'm pretty damn chuffed all in all.


Out with the shovel, dig up that post :D

Well finally last night I got to play it. My friend finally got a working motherboard for the machine we have been speccing and building (after two failed.. one DOA one dead within 5 mins).

SFIV is capped at 60fps dude. Both of us scored exactly the same everything maxed. There's obviously some kind of limiter in place :) Beautiful game though and I kicked his ass too. I was a bit rusty at first but 40 mins later he decided he didn't want to play any more haha.
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