Findus Fop wrote:
Someone at work was telling me that PS4s with a PT installation go for £1000.
He's very very wrong.
Findus Fop wrote:
Grim... wrote:
I guess PT counts, too.
Someone at work was telling me that PS4s with a PT installation go for £1000.
But he does also believe in aliens.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-PS4 ... ctupt=true
They do not.
FFS. Next you'll be telling me that aliens didn't colonize earth 1000 years ago and we've been their ignorant slaves ever since.
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Which doesn't actually happen very often in games -- can you name a second example? I can't.
Deadpool (which was actually delisted twice due to licensing)
The Playstation and Xbox versions of the original Outrun
The Gameboy version of Tetris from Nintendo's sShop
Scott Pilgrim
Various pinball tables from The Pinball Arcade
Lego The Hobbit and Lego LOTR
Certain Star Trek and James Bond games apparently
I'm not saying any of these are necessarily significant, it's just that I literally watch a video about this last night.
Also people certainly were putting PS4s with PT installed up on eBay with Buy It Now prices of £1K at one point; though whether anyone ever actually bought them is a different matter of course.
Bamba wrote:
Also people certainly were putting PS4s with PT installed up on eBay with Buy It Now prices of £1K at one point; though whether anyone ever actually bought them is a different matter of course.
See also, people selling their Iphones with Flappy Bird installed.
Bamba wrote:
Various pinball tables from The Pinball Arcade
This one was huge, the entire game was basically gutted when Farscape lost the Williams/Bally licensing, and there's literally no way on earth to legitimately get hold of those tables anymore.
Also, pinball is timeless insofar as it's not all about the latest shiny graphics and whatnot (all my favourite tables in there are from the 80s and 90s).
At least my collection is safe(ish....) in my Steam library as I bought them all when they were available. If the same thing happened on a streaming service then it's just - poof! - gone.
What is PT?
KovacsC wrote:
What is PT?
THIS IS THE GREATEST SHOW.
A demo for the unreleased Silent Hill game 
Findus Fop wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
What is PT?
THIS IS THE GREATEST SHOW.
I understand that reference. ( I feel like cap America )
I mean, maybe? You have no idea if that's the case.
[edit] That was in reply to Hearthly, ages ago
[edit] That was in reply to Hearthly, ages ago
I was curious what PT was. I must have missed the reference
KovacsC wrote:
I was curious what PT was. I must have missed the reference
The Playable Teaser of Silent Hills, the Hideo Kojima game that got canned when he fell out with and left Konami.
Hearthly wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
In 2017, 58% of UK broadband users had internet of "up to 30 mbit/sec" or more, which should be fast enough for a 4k stream even allowing for some of the "up to" wriggle room. That number will be quite a bit higher today.
On what planet is 30Mb/s good enough for a 4K stream?
https://kotaku.com/google-stadia-boss-a ... 1833422137
Quote:
What internet speed do you need to run Stadia? “We were able to test a lot of this with our Project Stream test late last year, starting back in October. To get 1080p, 60 frames per second, required approximately 25 megabits per second. In fact, we use less than that, but that’s where we put our recommended limit at. But with innovations that we’ve made on the streamer side and on the compression side since then, when we launch, we will be able to get to 4K but only raise that bandwidth to about 30 megabits per second. So if you have less bandwidth, we’ll give you a lower resolution… We do a lot of that for you in the background, and we will only offer up the appropriate bandwidth for the infrastructure that you have.”
Well the devil will be in the detail, i.e. how much they have to compress it. Yes you could technically have a '4K stream' at 30Mb/s but if it's compressed enough it'll still look like a bag of bottoms.
And this is the PR fluff of course, we'll need to see the thing in action and compare the reality with the claims.
And this is the PR fluff of course, we'll need to see the thing in action and compare the reality with the claims.
https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/statu ... 7224324096
I wonder how many people game on a TV with 80-100 ms of extra lag and never even notice.
Many people play games on TVs with so much processing lag that the pixels might as well have been coming from a datacenter. Not everyone knows or bothers to enable game mode (sadly).
— John Carmack (@ID_AA_Carmack) March 19, 2019
I wonder how many people game on a TV with 80-100 ms of extra lag and never even notice.
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1108145247224324096
I wonder how many people game on a TV with 80-100 ms of extra lag and never even notice.
I wonder how many people game on a TV with 80-100 ms of extra lag and never even notice.
Some people "can't see it"
Game mode?
I remember going round a friends house to see that he had an empty Scart socket and a Gamecube, PS2 and Megadrive all connected via a series of RF leads.
He was none the wiser until I changed it for him.
He was none the wiser until I changed it for him.
If it's pure streaming and a subscription model, how are the game devs going to get paid? Streaming music has work so well for musicians....
I'm predicting more and more microtransactions.
I'm predicting more and more microtransactions.
Note that streaming doesn't do anything to fix TV processing lag.
Of course, all this will hinge on the quality of the games and if its anything like what's on the Playstore, I'll pass thanks.
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1108145247224324096
I wonder how many people game on a TV with 80-100 ms of extra lag and never even notice.
I wonder how many people game on a TV with 80-100 ms of extra lag and never even notice.
Yeah, lots probably don't care, some more might put the treacle feeling down to the game itself and then there's lots of other people who do appreciate the snappier feeling with game mode enabled.
I think it'll be fine for some games and shite for others. So if it's just offering the same games as the consoles then I'll have no interest. If they manage to make something different then I'd probably check it out.
I hope it fails miserably, just to spite Gaywood.
https://twitter.com/cliffski/status/1108126769335406593
So does this guy.
Who on earth is the target market for stadia? people with bleeding edge fiber to the home and no bandwidth caps, but who cant afford a PC or an xbox? Thats a fucking small venn diagram center.
— cliffski (@cliffski) March 19, 2019
So does this guy.
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I wonder how many people game on a TV with 80-100 ms of extra lag and never even notice.
Those are people who don't even have a passing interest in, or being good at, games involving reaction times. It's what rockstar still bank on. Maybe that's the target market.I know you work for Google but is your bonus riding on this? The internet is still shit at round trips; putting "your console" on the other end of the internet is going to make everything measurably worse; physics still applies in 2019 shocker.
PSNow made £125m in the last quarter of 2018 
This doesn't exactly make it sound awe-inspiring.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digi ... m-gdc-2019
It's noted that they're running 1080p@30FPS on a 200meg connection and it's 'good but not great', let's see how that scales out to 4K@60FPS in a real life scenario.....
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digi ... m-gdc-2019
It's noted that they're running 1080p@30FPS on a 200meg connection and it's 'good but not great', let's see how that scales out to 4K@60FPS in a real life scenario.....
I mean, it says it has the same lag (166ms) as an XBox One X, and that "there are many reasons to be optimistic" but it seems like you're just arguing based on an opinion of something you haven't used yet.
On brand.
On brand.
So we're managing the same lag at 30FPS as an XBoxOneX in pretty much ideal conditions, with reduced image quality and resolution. (And with a somewhat slow paced game at that.)
Show me it running Apex Legends at 4K@60FPS with decent image quality and responsiveness, and things might get interesting. (Not that I'd play it because gamepad, but you get the point.)
Show me it running Apex Legends at 4K@60FPS with decent image quality and responsiveness, and things might get interesting. (Not that I'd play it because gamepad, but you get the point.)
Sure, we got the point straight away. Many people agreed with you.
As always, we've got to watch you make the same point another 30 times.
As always, we've got to watch you make the same point another 30 times.
Well, 29 now.
I'm keeping count!
That lag on the Xbox is shit. but I'm not going to read one article to find out what game it was.
Hmmm, this is going to be interesting, at the very least.
For what it's worth, with HDMI 2.1 (in new tellys out this year) games consoles will be able to automatically switch to game/low latency mode.
Which will work as well as HDMI-CEC I imagine.
Cras wrote:
Which will work as well as HDMI-CEC I imagine.
So, really well then (assuming you have a PS4 and a Sony TV)?
Cras wrote:
Which will work as well as HDMI-CEC I imagine.
HDMI-CEC isn't awful any more. But it's a profoundly less difficult space, as there's no variables to cope with - just a binary flag value that should work the same way on all diaplays. It's more like HDMI devices telling each other what resolution to display in. When did that last cause you trouble?
It works 80% of the time, with a Fire TV waking up the Telly.
Cras wrote:
It works 80% of the time, with a Fire TV waking up the Telly.
Have I mentioned lately how much I hate computers?
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Cras wrote:
It works 80% of the time, with a Fire TV waking up the Telly.
Have I mentioned lately how much I hate computers?
Love that song
The more I look into this Stadia thingy, the more I'm starting to revise my original opinion, TBH I hadn't understood the scale of the differences between Stadia and 'all other game streaming services ever'.
Also, I've seen several suggestions now that Google will have some sort of free tier available, perhaps limiting play time or stream quality or suchlike, but either way, everyone might just get 'Stadia Enabled' by default on the Google account they already have, which means everyone gets the 'PLAY THIS GAME NOW' button next to their videos, and if they press that button, it'll work, without them handing over a penny.
That could be huge.
On top of that, it's true that PC gaming has been getting more and more expensive thanks to greedy fucking Nvidia and hardware costs in general, and even consoles can be a ballache these days with their updates and games always needing day one patches and whatnot. I've lost track of the number of times my Switch has insisted that it needs to update the fucking controllers.
Stadia makes all that go away, and it works on hardware that people already have, and it'll potentially be available in some form for free.
I'll hold my hand up and say I may well have jumped the gun on this one, and called it wrong.
Also, I've seen several suggestions now that Google will have some sort of free tier available, perhaps limiting play time or stream quality or suchlike, but either way, everyone might just get 'Stadia Enabled' by default on the Google account they already have, which means everyone gets the 'PLAY THIS GAME NOW' button next to their videos, and if they press that button, it'll work, without them handing over a penny.
That could be huge.
On top of that, it's true that PC gaming has been getting more and more expensive thanks to greedy fucking Nvidia and hardware costs in general, and even consoles can be a ballache these days with their updates and games always needing day one patches and whatnot. I've lost track of the number of times my Switch has insisted that it needs to update the fucking controllers.
Stadia makes all that go away, and it works on hardware that people already have, and it'll potentially be available in some form for free.
I'll hold my hand up and say I may well have jumped the gun on this one, and called it wrong.
'The cost of Google Stadia is zero dollars'
And it's like, a couple of weeks ago me and Trousers talked an old chum into buying an XBox One X for games like Forza Horizon 4 and BL2 Handsome Collection. He's got a really nice AV setup with a massive 4K telly.
So he was updating us on WhatsApp with his purchase and getting it set up, and of course he hit the inevitable brick wall of watching the console update itself FOR FUCKING HOURS before he could do anything with it, and setting up a Microsoft account and all that shit, and then he had to download the bloody games! He's got reasonable internet but not amazing (out in the sticks a bit), and Microsoft's download servers aren't always the best, so it was several more hours before he could even play a fucking game.
If Stadia works properly, he'd have been all over it like a cheap suit in that scenario.
And Windows is a fucking shitshow these days, I know many people who'd dump Windows in a heartbeat if they could, they only keep it around for games.
Stadia could be massively disruptive across the entire industry, if I were Nvidia, I'd be worried right now. Greedy fuckers might just get their comeuppance.....
And it's like, a couple of weeks ago me and Trousers talked an old chum into buying an XBox One X for games like Forza Horizon 4 and BL2 Handsome Collection. He's got a really nice AV setup with a massive 4K telly.
So he was updating us on WhatsApp with his purchase and getting it set up, and of course he hit the inevitable brick wall of watching the console update itself FOR FUCKING HOURS before he could do anything with it, and setting up a Microsoft account and all that shit, and then he had to download the bloody games! He's got reasonable internet but not amazing (out in the sticks a bit), and Microsoft's download servers aren't always the best, so it was several more hours before he could even play a fucking game.
If Stadia works properly, he'd have been all over it like a cheap suit in that scenario.
And Windows is a fucking shitshow these days, I know many people who'd dump Windows in a heartbeat if they could, they only keep it around for games.
Stadia could be massively disruptive across the entire industry, if I were Nvidia, I'd be worried right now. Greedy fuckers might just get their comeuppance.....
But, discs! Lag! E-peen!
Another famous flip flop!
Another famous flip flop!
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
two seconds of thought by one forumy boi
Hearthly wrote:
You do me a disservice Doc, I put quite a lot of thought into these things, and my opinion above is the result of that thought process.
Hearthly wrote:
The more I look into this Stadia thingy, the more I'm starting to revise my original opinion, TBH I hadn't understood the scale of the differences between Stadia and 'all other game streaming services ever'.
::sips tea::
Glorious.
Ok Google, define magnanimous.
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
::sips tea::
Yep, fine, you got me
TBH at that point I thought Stadia was an upgraded version of what had gone before in this space, (i.e. A better OnLive or suchlike), I didn't appreciate the scope of what Google were doing. I should have done more research into what Stadia really is, so yep, that's on me.
My understanding of the facts has changed, so my opinion has changed, and whilst I may be very stubborn and pigheaded about stuff sometimes (headline news right there), I've gone away and done my homework on Stadia as it was gnawing away at me, y'know, 'Hang on, this is Google we're talking about here, the company that has all the data about everyone and everything ever'.
If this thing really works like they say it works, it could render the XB2/PS5 largely obsolete for many people before we even know what the specs of them are.
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