Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Quote:
I heard similar arguments being used during the Scottish Indyref and I told all the Yessers that they'd lose - and by some margin - then too, for much the same reasons. History, as ever, has a habit of repeating itself. Hold your nerve.
That's a decent point (which the author of the piece I quote mentioned but did not counter, to my mind.) There are strong parallels to the indyref.Possible counter the article touches on: the Murdoch papers did not back the indyref, but they are backing Leave. And the Murdoch papers haven't been wrong about this sort of thing very often at all (you can argue which way around cause and effect is, there, of course.)
Heh. Well, let's just say I disagree.
Like I say, we don't have long to wait.
Like I say, we don't have long to wait.
To be clear, I hope you're right, and I don't know you're wrong. I don't know which way this is going to go.
I have a deep worry we'll be out as this approaches, because I think the polling will cover some shy Brexiters as it often covers the shy Tory vote.
Mimi wrote:
I have a deep worry we'll be out as this approaches, because I think the polling will cover some shy Brexiters as it often covers the shy Tory vote.
I'd say being a Bremainer is a less populist position. I don't know which way this is going to go but I'd expect more shy Bremainers than Brexiteers.
I don't know... I think the shyness comes more from self-interest and greed/fear than the populist opinion, which would be more applicable to the Tory/Leave similarity... But it's difficult to try and see it from the other position, so it's difficult to even guess at.
Did Downjng street open the vote registration back up after the site crash, does anyone know? There was talk this morning about extending the deadline.
Did Downjng street open the vote registration back up after the site crash, does anyone know? There was talk this morning about extending the deadline.
Mimi wrote:
I don't know... I think the shyness comes more from self-interest and greed/fear than the populist opinion, which would be more applicable to the Tory/Leave similarity... But it's difficult to try and see it from the other position, so it's difficult to even guess at.
The common confusing of the EU (a political entity) with Europe (a geographical one), and assuming that to be anti the former makes one anti the latter probably increases the shyness of some Brexiteers I know as they don't want to be tarred with being xenophobes or little Englanders.
Not a left/right thing eh? 
good crayon work there...
It must be a fake, surely. SURELY.
With what sign? Ramen? Was it a noodle vendor?
When I see things like that I'm never sure if they are real, it just looks too stupid... Nobody is that stupid, right? Right?
And of course, that persons far right/leave preference does not mean a correlation between the two positions for everyone. I think the right have a stronger leave tendency, but there are going to be all sorts of position crossovers.
When I see things like that I'm never sure if they are real, it just looks too stupid... Nobody is that stupid, right? Right?
And of course, that persons far right/leave preference does not mean a correlation between the two positions for everyone. I think the right have a stronger leave tendency, but there are going to be all sorts of position crossovers.
I think so. It looks like a clumsy attempt at equating Brexiters with Nazis.
Mimi wrote:
I think so. It looks like a clumsy attempt at equating Brexiters with Nazis.
It was purported to have been left on a car windscreen in NW London.
"Hi Hitler" though.
If it were more subtly done I'd be more convinced.
NW London. If you're a racist in NW London you've given yourself a rough patch of ground to hate people from other races. Brent is NW London. It's the most racially diverse place in Europe. There are unlikely to be any 'leave' areas in NW London of all places.
But... Hitler was all for Britain being part of a united Europe
Mimi wrote:
NW London. If you're a racist in NW London you've given yourself a rough patch of ground to hate people from other races. Brent is NW London. It's the most racially diverse place in Europe. There are unlikely to be any 'leave' areas in NW London of all places.
Yeah, I've found the original Facebook post and he hasn't given any indication it's not real (found on a friend's windscreen in NW3 allegedly), but it seems unlikely to be true for the reasons you've stated.
I've certainly seen real Swastikas drawn that badly in earnest, so that's not unreasonable.
Squirt wrote:
I've certainly seen real Swastikas drawn that badly in earnest, so that's not unreasonable.
The second one looks like it's shrugging.
Lonewolves wrote:
Not a left/right thing eh?
What, we're going to draw ANY conclusions whatsoever from ONE illiterate nutball's scrawly little note? (That's probably a fake btw)
I don't think so.
Are you even being serious?
Is "WHITE DoNER" a kebab btw?
Cavey wrote:
Is "WHITE DoNER" a kebab btw?
YouGov asked people to rate their likelihood of voting, on a scale of 1-10. Here's the proportions of people who answer 10/10 ie. they are certain to leave, grouped by age demographic.
Urk.
Urk.
To be fair, this is also a VOTE LAVE area.
He missed a trick with 'Hi Titler' though.
He missed a trick with 'Hi Titler' though.
Cavey wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Not a left/right thing eh?
What, we're going to draw ANY conclusions whatsoever from ONE illiterate nutball's scrawly little note? (That's probably a fake btw)
I don't think so.
Are you even being serious?
Deadly serious. It proves that Leavers are literal Nazis.
Meh. I really can't tell when you're being serious or not. 
Cavey wrote:
Meh. I really can't tell when you're being serious or not.
I sometimes wonder myself.
Cavey wrote:
Meh. I really can't tell when you're being serious or not.
A guide to telling how serious Myp is:
The more naked he is, the more serious he is.
Personally, I'm happy when he's at his least serious.
Lonewolves wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Not a left/right thing eh?
What, we're going to draw ANY conclusions whatsoever from ONE illiterate nutball's scrawly little note? (That's probably a fake btw)
I don't think so.
Are you even being serious?
Deadly serious. It proves that Leavers are literal Nazis.
Speaking seriously, I don't think it inaccurate to describe Farage and UKIP as the modern heirs of Oswald Moseley and British Union of Fascists, or even the late '70s National Front.
this was sent to me by an angry friend.
That is part of the issue too many mis truths being told"
NO SHIT SHERLOCK....... WTF! DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!!!!!!!
.....and then tell your left wing, tripe peddling, do good mates to wake up and smell the coffee.
These 'friends' sound like they are not capable of abstract thought never mind doing simple research, rather than taking on board all the scaremongering, BS, FUD and propaganda by the stay camp - who essentially are being paid or funded by the EU in one form another.
You also mentioned 10 years to sort this out. Seriously, what drugs have you been taking? This will be done and dusted within 2, tops. The people of Europe need us to exit as a wake up call to tear down the self serving bureaucratic mess that the EU is right now and hopefully re-build something that is useful and meaningful to all European citizens. My view - the EU should be a simple but comprehensive set of trading agreements NOT a federal state. The federal state aspect is a political experiment executed by political elites that needs to be STOPPED dead in its tracks. This is the one and only opportunity to do that.
As I have also said before...... What European companies do you expect to stop selling their products here in the UK? My reckoning - NONE! Why? Simple, the UK is too lucrative a market to ignore or mess around with - period. If 'they' want to punish us - I'm fine with that. Lets see how European (German, French, Swedish) car manufacturers respond to 200% import duty when their respective governments give the UK trading agreements the runaround. Trading maybe 'rocky' for a short period, but we need trade negotiators to have balls and a backbone, in pretty short order trading will be good. If that is not the case, there are a lot of European companies that will take a massive hit to their bottom lines. What do you think they will do....? Lobby their respective Governments to get their shit together regarding trade with the UK sorted amicably PDQ.
Look around at other 'European' news and the level of dis-satisfaction with the EU...... It is not just us that are really pissed off with what EU membership demands and offers, its literally the population of every 'wealthy' country in the EU. Note, not the good for nothing elitist politicians, but the actual PEOPLE of these countries....... What does that tell you?
It should tell you that the EU is terribly broken and it is time for significant change - the only way to get that is to vote out.
That is part of the issue too many mis truths being told"
NO SHIT SHERLOCK....... WTF! DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!!!!!!!
.....and then tell your left wing, tripe peddling, do good mates to wake up and smell the coffee.
These 'friends' sound like they are not capable of abstract thought never mind doing simple research, rather than taking on board all the scaremongering, BS, FUD and propaganda by the stay camp - who essentially are being paid or funded by the EU in one form another.
You also mentioned 10 years to sort this out. Seriously, what drugs have you been taking? This will be done and dusted within 2, tops. The people of Europe need us to exit as a wake up call to tear down the self serving bureaucratic mess that the EU is right now and hopefully re-build something that is useful and meaningful to all European citizens. My view - the EU should be a simple but comprehensive set of trading agreements NOT a federal state. The federal state aspect is a political experiment executed by political elites that needs to be STOPPED dead in its tracks. This is the one and only opportunity to do that.
As I have also said before...... What European companies do you expect to stop selling their products here in the UK? My reckoning - NONE! Why? Simple, the UK is too lucrative a market to ignore or mess around with - period. If 'they' want to punish us - I'm fine with that. Lets see how European (German, French, Swedish) car manufacturers respond to 200% import duty when their respective governments give the UK trading agreements the runaround. Trading maybe 'rocky' for a short period, but we need trade negotiators to have balls and a backbone, in pretty short order trading will be good. If that is not the case, there are a lot of European companies that will take a massive hit to their bottom lines. What do you think they will do....? Lobby their respective Governments to get their shit together regarding trade with the UK sorted amicably PDQ.
Look around at other 'European' news and the level of dis-satisfaction with the EU...... It is not just us that are really pissed off with what EU membership demands and offers, its literally the population of every 'wealthy' country in the EU. Note, not the good for nothing elitist politicians, but the actual PEOPLE of these countries....... What does that tell you?
It should tell you that the EU is terribly broken and it is time for significant change - the only way to get that is to vote out.
Cavey does peddle a lot of tripe, that bit is true.
KovacsC wrote:
Look around at other 'European' news and the level of dis-satisfaction with the EU...... It is not just us that are really pissed off with what EU membership demands and offers, its literally the population of every 'wealthy' country in the EU. Note, not the good for nothing elitist politicians, but the actual PEOPLE of these countries....... What does that tell you?
That's funny because I've spoken to lots of people in lots of other EU countries, as well as countries not in the EU but involved in trade deals or w/e, and they all think we're mad.
Quote:
The people of Europe need us to exit as a wake up call to tear down the self serving bureaucratic mess that the EU is right now and hopefully re-build something that is useful and meaningful to all European citizens
This won't happen. We'll just leave and everyone else will carry on regardless. And we'll have no say anymore. And in order to stay as part of the single market we'll still have to keep paying in.
Interesting that despite not being part of the EU, Norway and Switzerland have more immigration from EU countries than we do.
That rant just has no basis in anything resembling facts.
It's exactly like all the people living in the past, assuming that a couple of brand names they can remember mean that we are genuinely a bigger force in world trade than the rest of Europe combined.
It's exactly like all the people living in the past, assuming that a couple of brand names they can remember mean that we are genuinely a bigger force in world trade than the rest of Europe combined.
We should leave the EU, call back in the Commonwealth countries, then invade Aquitaine.
Lonewolves wrote:
Cavey does peddle a lot of tripe, that bit is true.
You do realise I'm Remain, right?
Edit oh Soz, got it now. Come the revolution, Comrades! /clenches left fist
I do wonder who the sole leave person in the vote is.
I reckon it's Myp. The colossal far right racist that he is.
I reckon it's Myp. The colossal far right racist that he is.
Mr Dave wrote:
I do wonder who the sole leave person in the vote is.
I reckon it's Myp. The colossal far right racist that he is.
I reckon it's Myp. The colossal far right racist that he is.
Yeah Myp is TOTALLY a plant; I recognised that handwriting on that note straight away. Busted mate.
Funny how he brought it up eh!!!!11
Cavey wrote:
Come the revolution, Comrades! /clenches left fist
The revolution of...the status quo.
"WHAT DO WE WANT???"
"um, the same as now"
"WHEN DO WE WANT IT?"
"now would be most convienient, if that's okay with everyone? kthanksbye"
"um, the same as now"
"WHEN DO WE WANT IT?"
"now would be most convienient, if that's okay with everyone? kthanksbye"
I mean, obviously I don't want the status quo - I want EU reform. But you can't do that by taking your ball and going home.
Damn, thought that was worth a smiley. 
/sulks
/sulks
Cavey wrote:
Damn, thought that was worth a smiley.
/sulks
/sulks
I did smile IRL if that helps.
Cavey wrote:
"WHAT DO WE WANT???"
"um, the same as now"
"WHEN DO WE WANT IT?"
"now would be most convienient, if that's okay with everyone? kthanksbye"
"um, the same as now"
"WHEN DO WE WANT IT?"
"now would be most convienient, if that's okay with everyone? kthanksbye"
Lonewolves wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Come the revolution, Comrades! /clenches left fist
The revolution of...the status quo.
I remember reading somewhere that until the French stormed the Bastille, the traditional meaning of 'revolution' was a return to the normal ordering of things as opposed to the overturning of society. Think of people being strapped to Fortune's Wheel, currently at the bottom being revolved to the top.
@DavPaz
Aw, cheers man.
Anyone see the Andrew Neil interview of Osborne last night?
I saw some of it; thought Osborne handled it reasonably well (apart from the cringey 'I've brought along an Airbus widget with me to show it's all about real jobs and real people' bit). By contrast, I thought Neil was a hectoring bellend whose various blatent attempts to embarrass and ambush Osborne fell largely flat, and made him look a nasty twat. He's not actually interested in the answers people give to his questions (that's when he even gives them an opportunity to answer). Tough interviews can be great, but he ain't no Paxo or Humphries, that's for sure.
Aw, cheers man.
Anyone see the Andrew Neil interview of Osborne last night?
I saw some of it; thought Osborne handled it reasonably well (apart from the cringey 'I've brought along an Airbus widget with me to show it's all about real jobs and real people' bit). By contrast, I thought Neil was a hectoring bellend whose various blatent attempts to embarrass and ambush Osborne fell largely flat, and made him look a nasty twat. He's not actually interested in the answers people give to his questions (that's when he even gives them an opportunity to answer). Tough interviews can be great, but he ain't no Paxo or Humphries, that's for sure.
ITV are having a bunfight debate from 20:00 tonight. Probably with Ant and Dec.
I definitely feel country can be trusted to make an informed decision!
How have you been doing your homework on this?
I've polished off Pinder & Usherwood's 'The European Union: a very short introduction', David Charter's 'Europe In or Out', Dan Hannan's 'Why vote leave', and got drunk in three major EU capitals (four if you include London; six if you include Edinburgh and Truro).
But I'm increasingly realising that the decision, for me, is going to be a contest between several competing values.
I've polished off Pinder & Usherwood's 'The European Union: a very short introduction', David Charter's 'Europe In or Out', Dan Hannan's 'Why vote leave', and got drunk in three major EU capitals (four if you include London; six if you include Edinburgh and Truro).
But I'm increasingly realising that the decision, for me, is going to be a contest between several competing values.
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