Dickface?
Cras wrote:
Dickface?
"Cunt Riley"
Genuine nickname
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Despite my name, I don't qualify at all.
I love it when colonials tell me they're proud of their Irish roots and decorate their pages on sinister Facebook with celtic patterns and slightly disturbing views on Anglo-Irish history. Usually it amounts to one great-grandfather who lived in Co. Tipperary in the 1870s.
US colleague told me she had Irish and Scottish roots, said family was "probably from somewhere near the border between the two"
Cras wrote:
US colleague told me she had Irish and Scottish roots, said family was "probably from somewhere near the border between the two"
Well, Scots were encouraged to populate the northern bit to bring in a bit of Protestantism, so she could be correct...
Cras wrote:
US colleague told me she had Irish and Scottish roots, said family was "probably from somewhere near the border between the two"
Kern wrote:
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Despite my name, I don't qualify at all.
I love it when colonials tell me they're proud of their Irish roots and decorate their pages on sinister Facebook with celtic patterns and slightly disturbing views on Anglo-Irish history. Usually it amounts to one great-grandfather who lived in Co. Tipperary in the 1870s.
Colonialism was good though
Not in Roanoke.
Leaflet watch: I finally got a 'Leave' one.
Leaflet watch: I got a "make sure you vote" one, which was surprising.
Perhaps I should read it a bit closer.
Perhaps I should read it a bit closer.
Leaflet watch: 50% off Dominos and a catalogue for stair lifts and disabled access bath tubs.
Mimi wrote:
Leaflet watch: 50% off Dominos and a catalogue for stair lifts and disabled access bath tubs.
One follows the other
Apparently, mail on Sunday are backing remain.
I expect to wake up from this frankly bizarre dream shortly.
I expect to wake up from this frankly bizarre dream shortly.
The Times is remain, the Sunday Times is leave. Trying to project some veneer of journalistic independence, perhaps?
...Well, cometh the hour and all that, home straight now.
I don't know whether it is wishful thinking/hubris on my part, but I've always said that I just can't see the British people voting Brexit, and I stand by that. Nationalism has (generally) never found as fertile ground here like it has in mainland Europe; the "British sense of fair play" isn't entirely a product of fiction, and parties ranging from the National Front, EDL, BNP and UKIP haven't won a single parliamentary seat between them. When push comes to shove (SNP aside), and whatever the polls suggest, we always pull back from the brink. Unity and collaboration trumps spiteful isolation and myopic, delusions of grandeur induced selfishness.
Until quite recently, I thought Farage was a "lovable rogue" type character; okay, I didn't agree with his views (not least because of my Eastern European parentage, but also because I believe in unity and hope, not division and "othering"), but heck, I thought - I can share a pint and a smoke with the man, he seems jovial and "real" enough. Slowly, though, and for me at least, the mask has been slipping, the wolf in sheep's clothing has been ever more evident. The final straw? That poster Cras posted the other day, and the unbelievably close facsimile to Nazi material of the '30s... a dark warning from History indeed.
Come on UK, we're better than this. Let's show that grasping mop-haired twat and Kermit the dustbin of history once and for all.
I don't know whether it is wishful thinking/hubris on my part, but I've always said that I just can't see the British people voting Brexit, and I stand by that. Nationalism has (generally) never found as fertile ground here like it has in mainland Europe; the "British sense of fair play" isn't entirely a product of fiction, and parties ranging from the National Front, EDL, BNP and UKIP haven't won a single parliamentary seat between them. When push comes to shove (SNP aside), and whatever the polls suggest, we always pull back from the brink. Unity and collaboration trumps spiteful isolation and myopic, delusions of grandeur induced selfishness.
Until quite recently, I thought Farage was a "lovable rogue" type character; okay, I didn't agree with his views (not least because of my Eastern European parentage, but also because I believe in unity and hope, not division and "othering"), but heck, I thought - I can share a pint and a smoke with the man, he seems jovial and "real" enough. Slowly, though, and for me at least, the mask has been slipping, the wolf in sheep's clothing has been ever more evident. The final straw? That poster Cras posted the other day, and the unbelievably close facsimile to Nazi material of the '30s... a dark warning from History indeed.
Come on UK, we're better than this. Let's show that grasping mop-haired twat and Kermit the dustbin of history once and for all.
Cavey wrote:
...Well, cometh the hour and all that, home straight now.
I don't know whether it is wishful thinking/hubris on my part, but I've always said that I just can't see the British people voting Brexit, and I stand by that. Nationalism has (generally) never found as fertile ground here like it has in mainland Europe; the "British sense of fair play" isn't entirely a product of fiction, and parties ranging from the National Front, EDL, BNP and UKIP haven't won a single parliamentary seat between them. When push comes to shove (SNP aside), and whatever the polls suggest, we always pull back from the brink. Unity and collaboration trumps spiteful isolation and myopic, delusions of grandeur induced selfishness.
Until quite recently, I thought Farage was a "lovable rogue" type character; okay, I didn't agree with his views (not least because of my Eastern European parentage, but also because I believe in unity and hope, not division and "othering"), but heck, I thought - I can share a pint and a smoke with the man, he seems jovial and "real" enough. Slowly, though, and for me at least, the mask has been slipping, the wolf in sheep's clothing has been ever more evident. The final straw? That poster Cras posted the other day, and the unbelievably close facsimile to Nazi material of the '30s... a dark warning from History indeed.
Come on UK, we're better than this. Let's show that grasping mop-haired twat and Kermit the dustbin of history.
I don't know whether it is wishful thinking/hubris on my part, but I've always said that I just can't see the British people voting Brexit, and I stand by that. Nationalism has (generally) never found as fertile ground here like it has in mainland Europe; the "British sense of fair play" isn't entirely a product of fiction, and parties ranging from the National Front, EDL, BNP and UKIP haven't won a single parliamentary seat between them. When push comes to shove (SNP aside), and whatever the polls suggest, we always pull back from the brink. Unity and collaboration trumps spiteful isolation and myopic, delusions of grandeur induced selfishness.
Until quite recently, I thought Farage was a "lovable rogue" type character; okay, I didn't agree with his views (not least because of my Eastern European parentage, but also because I believe in unity and hope, not division and "othering"), but heck, I thought - I can share a pint and a smoke with the man, he seems jovial and "real" enough. Slowly, though, and for me at least, the mask has been slipping, the wolf in sheep's clothing has been ever more evident. The final straw? That poster Cras posted the other day, and the unbelievably close facsimile to Nazi material of the '30s... a dark warning from History indeed.
Come on UK, we're better than this. Let's show that grasping mop-haired twat and Kermit the dustbin of history.
I have to admit, losing the will to live a few of my friends who keep saying UKIP is not racist, as they have non-white party supporters......
Yes I know Kov, I get the same crap too, and whilst easily rebutted it does beg the question: are some of my friends really that stupid?
I have to believe that in the end, the facts of the situation will win through. I do, however, deplore the shitness of the Remain campaign; Corbyn doesn't even believe it and his disingenuous, lukewarm and heavily caveated platitudes reek of "I don't actually believe this stuff", and Cameron and Osborne are almost as badly damaged goods. I'd have liked to have seen a lot more from the BoE, CBI and the Unions for one, but we are where we are I guess.
I hate to say this but I think Jo Cox' murder is a watershed moment; people are thinking, this fantastic young woman spoke for unity and everyone, and was a bulwark against small-minded hatred. 'Can I really vote with the people she so vehemently opposed, as amply evidenced by *that* poster with Farage sat in front of it'? People need to remember where that shit leads!
I have to believe that in the end, the facts of the situation will win through. I do, however, deplore the shitness of the Remain campaign; Corbyn doesn't even believe it and his disingenuous, lukewarm and heavily caveated platitudes reek of "I don't actually believe this stuff", and Cameron and Osborne are almost as badly damaged goods. I'd have liked to have seen a lot more from the BoE, CBI and the Unions for one, but we are where we are I guess.
I hate to say this but I think Jo Cox' murder is a watershed moment; people are thinking, this fantastic young woman spoke for unity and everyone, and was a bulwark against small-minded hatred. 'Can I really vote with the people she so vehemently opposed, as amply evidenced by *that* poster with Farage sat in front of it'? People need to remember where that shit leads!
I don't believe that most people are that stupid. I think people who argue that Farage isn't racist don't believe a word they are saying. It's like a nudge nudge wink wink thing between him and his supporters. Fuck all of them frankly.
Cavey wrote:
I do, however, deplore the shitness of the Remain campaign;
Excluding all the 'fear and loathing across the Isles' stuff, the on-going lack of positivity for the EU as it is hasn't been helping the stay side. It often comes down to 'yes, the EU's generally crap and we'd wish they'd stop doing stuff but it's better than the alternative', which isn't that inspiring. On the other hand, I guess having a few proper federalists speak to the public might be really off-putting.
Cavey wrote:
parties ranging from the National Front, EDL, BNP and UKIP haven't won a single parliamentary seat between them.
UKIP won Clacton with Douglas Carswell after he defected from the Conservatives. The other organisations are rather more... overt... about what they stand for, whereas UKIP (to my mind) didn't start out to be racist; it just realised early on that it could pick up easy votes via dogwhistle politics. Also: UKIP took 13% of the popular vote last year. That ain't nothing. Under PR, it would give them 80-odd seats.Quote:
Until quite recently, I thought Farage was a "lovable rogue" type character; okay, I didn't agree with his views (not least because of my Eastern European parentage, but also because I believe in unity and hope, not division and "othering"), but heck, I thought - I can share a pint and a smoke with the man, he seems jovial and "real" enough. Slowly, though, and for me at least, the mask has been slipping, the wolf in sheep's clothing has been ever more evident. The final straw? That poster Cras posted the other day, and the unbelievably close facsimile to Nazi material of the '30s... a dark warning from History indeed.
Well, quite. We did try to tell you man 
markg wrote:
I don't believe that most people are that stupid. I think people who argue that Farage isn't racist don't believe a word they are saying. It's like a nudge nudge wink wink thing between him and his supporters. Fuck all of them frankly.
I was somewhat surprised by Baroness Warsi's decision to flip from Leave to Remain in response to Farage's racist poster.
Did she really think he wasn't racist prior to seeing that poster? What were her reasons for siding with Leave in the first place? Did Farage's racist poster cause all those reasons to evaporate?
I'm more inclined to think she saw which way the wind was blowing. Wars is nothing if not a politician to the core.
Warsi is just opportunistic. She was a very quiet Brexit person who has seen that the wind has changed and is looking for a 'reward' for creating bad press for Leave.
I now think we'll probably just squeak a remain vote. But a lot will depend on turnout, as those voting IN are the less likely voters (and apparently the less likely to be polled also).
I now think we'll probably just squeak a remain vote. But a lot will depend on turnout, as those voting IN are the less likely voters (and apparently the less likely to be polled also).
Curiosity wrote:
o/
\o
Aye, my intention was to make that point rhetorically.
What's wrong with an EU Army? Why should I be terrified by it?
(Plus, UK has Veto, so it can say no, right?)
(Plus, UK has Veto, so it can say no, right?)
Pod wrote:
What's wrong with an EU Army? Why should I be terrified by it?
It's perceived as another substantial by the EU powers-that-be towards a fully federal Europe, seeing as how "having an army" is one of the defining traits of statehood. "Terrified" is likely overstating it, although it's something I could convince myself to feel uneasy about, personally. That John Oliver clip is excellent.
Kern wrote:
That John Oliver clip is excellent.
Good lord, Farage is a complete twat in it though. Even more so than I'd ever dared to suspect.
Pod wrote:
(Plus, UK has Veto, so it can say no, right?)
A common defence requires unanimity in the Council so we do have a veto. Any such move would also trigger a referendum under the EU Act 2011. I very much doubt that neutral states such as Ireland would be happy with anything deeper than the current arrangements.
The Doc is right that an army is one of the main pieces of statehood (the monopoly of the use of force, if you are a fan of Weber).
Mr Dave wrote:
Kern wrote:
That John Oliver clip is excellent.
Good lord, Farage is a complete twat in it though. Even more so than I'd ever dared to suspect.
In fairness, he did sum up what a lot of people thought at the time about Herman von Rompuy, and the EU Parliament does need a little levity now and again. Still, at least we haven't had President Blair. Yet.
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
it's something I could convince myself to feel uneasy about, personally.
If you're a federalist, it's one of the final things you need to put in place. When I'm playing devil's advocate, I like to toy with the idea that the tragedy of the American Civil War was that the Union could only be held together by force.
This is less jokey but also very good
https://youtu.be/USTypBKEd8Y
https://youtu.be/USTypBKEd8Y
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Until quite recently, I thought Farage was a "lovable rogue" type character; okay, I didn't agree with his views (not least because of my Eastern European parentage, but also because I believe in unity and hope, not division and "othering"), but heck, I thought - I can share a pint and a smoke with the man, he seems jovial and "real" enough. Slowly, though, and for me at least, the mask has been slipping, the wolf in sheep's clothing has been ever more evident. The final straw? That poster Cras posted the other day, and the unbelievably close facsimile to Nazi material of the '30s... a dark warning from History indeed.
Well, quite. We did try to tell you man The clue was the black shorts.
Nigel Farage, yesterday
Kern wrote:
That John Oliver clip is excellent.
I gave up after 21 seconds....
Domino theory...
Guardian: ''Why not Texit?': Texas nationalists look to the Brexit vote for inspiration'
Pretty sure the question of secession in the US was settled by arms in 1865 and then by law in Texas v White in 1869...
Guardian: ''Why not Texit?': Texas nationalists look to the Brexit vote for inspiration'
Quote:
"There are a lot of people asking, if Brexit why not Texit?” he says. “I do talk with some folks over there on a pretty regular basis that are involved in Ukip and the Conservative party.”
The night before we met, Miller addressed a local Tea Party group, drawing parallels between Brexit and Texit, which the TNM is pushing as a hashtag. In Miller’s telling, Britain’s relationship with Europe was a marriage of convenience between ill-suited partners that has become stormy and ripe for divorce on grounds of irreconcilable differences, with too much sovereignty ceded to an ineffective central bureaucracy and too much hard-earned money sent elsewhere.
The night before we met, Miller addressed a local Tea Party group, drawing parallels between Brexit and Texit, which the TNM is pushing as a hashtag. In Miller’s telling, Britain’s relationship with Europe was a marriage of convenience between ill-suited partners that has become stormy and ripe for divorce on grounds of irreconcilable differences, with too much sovereignty ceded to an ineffective central bureaucracy and too much hard-earned money sent elsewhere.
Pretty sure the question of secession in the US was settled by arms in 1865 and then by law in Texas v White in 1869...
Interesting interview with Nicola Sturgeon. I've always been impressed with the dignified way she presents herself compared to the bruising approach of her predecessor. Her comments in the article match my views that the immigration debate and Nigel Farage have been very toxic to the leave camp.
She ties herself into a bit of a wordy carrick bend over Scottish Referendum 2, but she probably needs to keep that card on the table to appease her supporters and make Westminster tremble.
Worth reading.
She ties herself into a bit of a wordy carrick bend over Scottish Referendum 2, but she probably needs to keep that card on the table to appease her supporters and make Westminster tremble.
Worth reading.
Kern wrote:
Domino theory...
Guardian: ''Why not Texit?': Texas nationalists look to the Brexit vote for inspiration'
Pretty sure the question of secession in the US was settled by arms in 1865 and then by law in Texas v White in 1869...
Guardian: ''Why not Texit?': Texas nationalists look to the Brexit vote for inspiration'
Quote:
"There are a lot of people asking, if Brexit why not Texit?” he says. “I do talk with some folks over there on a pretty regular basis that are involved in Ukip and the Conservative party.”
The night before we met, Miller addressed a local Tea Party group, drawing parallels between Brexit and Texit, which the TNM is pushing as a hashtag. In Miller’s telling, Britain’s relationship with Europe was a marriage of convenience between ill-suited partners that has become stormy and ripe for divorce on grounds of irreconcilable differences, with too much sovereignty ceded to an ineffective central bureaucracy and too much hard-earned money sent elsewhere.
The night before we met, Miller addressed a local Tea Party group, drawing parallels between Brexit and Texit, which the TNM is pushing as a hashtag. In Miller’s telling, Britain’s relationship with Europe was a marriage of convenience between ill-suited partners that has become stormy and ripe for divorce on grounds of irreconcilable differences, with too much sovereignty ceded to an ineffective central bureaucracy and too much hard-earned money sent elsewhere.
Pretty sure the question of secession in the US was settled by arms in 1865 and then by law in Texas v White in 1869...
As a former-Texan, it's always been an interesting notion from an economic perspective, as Texas is incredibly self-sufficient. Though some of Texas is quite socially liberal, my main concern would be that they'd immediately back out of any law that doesn't exclusively serve straight, white men. The South still has a lot of problems with racism, homophobia, and misogyny.
Thanks for posting the link!
Kern wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
Kern wrote:
That John Oliver clip is excellent.
Good lord, Farage is a complete twat in it though. Even more so than I'd ever dared to suspect.
In fairness, he did sum up what a lot of people thought at the time about Herman von Rompuy, and the EU Parliament does need a little levity now and again. Still, at least we haven't had President Blair. Yet.
President Blair will never happen. The EPP (centre-right) view Blair with suspicion as he's a social democrat, at least nominally. The PES (social democrats) view Blair with suspicion because of his history. I wish Leavers wouldn't bring up scare stories that aren't actually plausible.
Anonymous X wrote:
I wish Leavers wouldn't bring up scare stories that aren't actually plausible.
Well that's been quite literally the entire campaign.
Cras wrote:
Anonymous X wrote:
I wish Leavers wouldn't bring up scare stories that aren't actually plausible.
Well that's been quite literally the entire campaign.
On both sides.
Grim... wrote:
Cras wrote:
Anonymous X wrote:
I wish Leavers wouldn't bring up scare stories that aren't actually plausible.
Well that's been quite literally the entire campaign.
On both sides.
And my axe.
Not convinced there has been any 'this will happen' that is outright untrue from the Remain side. There's been plenty of 'woooo, this might happen!', but no outrfight lies that I know of. Leave has outright lied many times though.
The chance of Brexit leading to a mega-recession is incredibly high if not inevitable, unfortunately. The Leave campaign are doing nothing but advocating economic suicide, and I'm staggered that a modern day electoral campaign has gone so far out of its way to continually support economic lunacy.
Edit: I'd like Leavers such as Kern to attempt to explain why Brexit is worth sacrificing the economy for.
Edit: I'd like Leavers such as Kern to attempt to explain why Brexit is worth sacrificing the economy for.
Cras wrote:
Not convinced there has been any 'this will happen' that is outright untrue from the Remain side. There's been plenty of 'woooo, this might happen!', but no outrfight lies that I know of. Leave has outright lied many times though.
The problem the Remain side have is they are advocating a vote for the status quo so any positive story they have to tell means telling people how great things are now. Whereas the Leave side can sell a complete fairy tale about how marvellous it will all be when we leave and when anyone points out that it's probably bollocks they can just counter by saying that nobody really knows and wrap themselves in a flag and we can be great again etc.
Except I don't think anyone believes the EU will stay as it is, and I doubt any further reforms will see a retreat from deeper integration of the Eurozone at least. We might be outside most of it, but it would have consequences for our relations within or without the organisation.
Are you sure? Won't having one major player on the brink of an exit put the brakes on a bit?
It's starting to focus minds, certainly.
In a couple of recent speeches, President Tusk has warned against the obsession with utopianism (eg here and here) but I don't know how much this view is shared by President Juncker, other leading countries, or the leading federalists in the large pan-European parties. The Five Presidents report certainly suggests a deeper union for the Eurozone to stabilise it.*
From our perspective, we have the 2011 Act as a shield against closer integration.
*Frankly, I wonder why no Leave campaigner doesn't just say 'Greece' whenever their economic forecasts are criticised.
In a couple of recent speeches, President Tusk has warned against the obsession with utopianism (eg here and here) but I don't know how much this view is shared by President Juncker, other leading countries, or the leading federalists in the large pan-European parties. The Five Presidents report certainly suggests a deeper union for the Eurozone to stabilise it.*
From our perspective, we have the 2011 Act as a shield against closer integration.
*Frankly, I wonder why no Leave campaigner doesn't just say 'Greece' whenever their economic forecasts are criticised.
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