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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:17 
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ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
I can't be racist, my favourite kidnapped and murdered host body is black!

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:27 
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Yeah there's definitely a strong element of fetishization.


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:35 
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Cras wrote:
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
I can't be racist, my favourite kidnapped and murdered host body is black!


ahahah

Well, the "i can't be racist because i have black friends" works as a fallacy only within itself. If you're married to a black woman and have black sons and daughters, can't you claim "I can't be racist because i have a black wife"? Well, that was what our ex-Prime Minister once said. This is not a rhetorical question, it's a legitimate question.


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:39 
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No.


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:48 
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There can never be any condition or circumstance that grants immunity from being racist, don’t be daft.


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:54 
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RuySan wrote:
If you're married to a black woman and have black sons and daughters, can't you claim "I can't be racist because i have a black wife"? Well, that was what our ex-Prime Minister once said. This is not a rhetorical question, it's a legitimate question.

Other races exist. Not just black and white.

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 13:17 
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RuySan wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
RuySan wrote:
Seen Get Out, after all the hype, i came a bit disappointed, even though it was fun.

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
The racial angle is what set this film apart from other slasher/revenge films of the kind, but it felt really tacked on because it made absolutely no sense.

Why did the armitages abducted only black people? One character (the art dealer) explained it, but it made no sense at all that explanation. So they are not racists, quite the opposite, if their grandparents decide to keep on living in the bodies of black people.

And why did the grandparents were working as house servants? Was this to cheat the main character or the audience? I'm sure it was the second, and this is one aspect of storytelling i really hate.

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
The racism is very very far from tacked on. The racism of the family is so ingrained that they only value black people for their physical attributes (throwback to slavery, much?), whether that is for sex, stamina or beauty. They take black people because they arrogantly assume that won't be missed. The grandparents aren't living as servants, but playing a part whilst the protagonist is there.

So... I think you missed the point a little


ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
the casual racism until the "twist" was very well done and and script well written. It's only that it fell apart when the movie turned into a horror movie. I also thought about the "won't be missed" reason, but the US is also filled with impoverished whites (the whole "white/trailer thrash thing"), so why live the rest of their days as blacks if they're so racist?

Because money makes it all ok


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 13:32 
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RuySan wrote:
If you're married to a black woman and have black sons and daughters, can't you claim "I can't be racist because i have a black wife"?

I used to work with a girl who had a Jamaican husband, and she was the most racist person I knew.

She figured it gave her a pass. It did not.

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 14:26 
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Zardoz wrote:
RuySan wrote:
If you're married to a black woman and have black sons and daughters, can't you claim "I can't be racist because i have a black wife"? Well, that was what our ex-Prime Minister once said. This is not a rhetorical question, it's a legitimate question.

Other races exist. Not just black and white.


According to Americans yes, there's one more: "Asian". Sometimes there's a fourth one "Hispanic".

As for in the real world, there's a multitude of ethnicities, not "races", but that's not what Americans refer to when they babble about "diversity".


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 14:34 
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Are you sure you aren't just thinking of something you saw on a police TV show where they're describing someone's physical appearance in necessarily vague terms? America is a country made up of people from all over the place, I'd say they're quite well aware of these things.


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 14:36 
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They refer to all American blacks as "African-Americans" don't they?


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 14:37 
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RuySan wrote:
As for in the real world, there's a multitude of ethnicities, not "races", but that's not what Americans refer to when they babble about "diversity".

https://giphy.com/explore/facepalm


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 14:44 
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That's mature. Why not try to contribute with something worthwhile?


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 14:46 
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RuySan wrote:
That's mature. Why not try to contribute with something worthwhile?

Because your opinions on all matters like this long ago sailed into "just plain offensive" territory for me. There's no point.


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 15:33 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
RuySan wrote:
That's mature. Why not try to contribute with something worthwhile?

Because your opinions on all matters like this long ago sailed into "just plain offensive" territory for me. There's no point.


I find your opinions much more offensive and racist.

I don't know why arguing for the use of ethnicity and against the use of race is offensive. I find that your slacktivism and bleeding-heart "liberalism" from your privileged first world view much more obtuse.

You know, i'm not going to use the "i have black friends" but i have lived and worked on the most impoverished parts of the world, and seen and witnessed the true diversity of sub-saarian african countries, and it's not only about skin colour. Far from it. So you think all these people should be lumped under the term "Black"? So when i hear the back patting of privileged anglo-saxon whites commenting on diversity, when it all comes down to american people with darker skin speaking english it really makes angry. I find it beyond racist and completely oblivious of the world outside english speaking countries.

I'm sure you'll say that you know Africa very well because you went to some safari in South Africa or some other stupid cliche. That's fine


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 15:51 
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All that, and you still think that "how can someone be racist if they have a black wife" is a valid question to ask?

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 15:59 
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RuySan wrote:
So you think all these people should be lumped under the term "Black"?

No - you do.

If I'm being really charitable here you could have messed the English up, maybe? Your previous posts have been very much in the vein of "there are black people and white people".

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 16:15 
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Grim... wrote:
RuySan wrote:
So you think all these people should be lumped under the term "Black"?

No - you do.

If I'm being really charitable here you could have messed the English up, maybe? Your previous posts have been very much in the vein of "there are black people and white people".


This is exactly the opposite point i'm trying to make. But i suppose there's something miss in the "translation". Doctor said that I was being offensive for being against the use of "race", while arguing for the use of "ethnicity". I don't like this obsession with race exactly because of that, there's no other way than to lump every "black" people into the same category (same for "whites" and "asians")

When my sister was in the US she had to fill some forms while coming in the airport, and then there was one line about race. WTF? Seriously this pretty much sums the problem americans have with race.

@Craster, You've been hostile towards me for a very long while, and i have no reason why, and the fact that you didn't even made an effort to counter my post with reasonable arguments , and went instead to try to insult me yet again shows something. Seriously, whats the deal?


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 16:17 
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RuySan wrote:
Doctor said that I was being offensive for being against the use of "race", while arguing for the use of "ethnicity".

He was probably offended by "there are black people and white people", or possibly your racist view of America. We may find out.

I'll let Craster explain why he insulted you with, um, a question.

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 16:22 
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RuySan wrote:
@Craster, You've been hostile towards me for a very long while, and i have no reason why, and the fact that you didn't even made an effort to counter my post with reasonable arguments , and went instead to try to insult me yet again shows something. Seriously, whats the deal?


You have a weird view of hostile. I think most of your views on diversity, ethnicity, and gender are outdated and unpleasant, and I object to them where appropriate. When you're not talking about those subjects I don't hold anything against you.

I remind you of a while back where you were arguing on the side of "maybe women just don't want to be politicians".

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 16:23 
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Oh and every time someone disagrees with you, you accuse them of insulting you.

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 16:32 
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Cras wrote:
RuySan wrote:
@Craster, You've been hostile towards me for a very long while, and i have no reason why, and the fact that you didn't even made an effort to counter my post with reasonable arguments , and went instead to try to insult me yet again shows something. Seriously, whats the deal?


You have a weird view of hostile. I think most of your views on diversity, ethnicity, and gender are outdated and unpleasant, and I object to them where appropriate. When you're not talking about those subjects I don't hold anything against you.

I remind you of a while back where you were arguing on the side of "maybe women just don't want to be politicians".


I find your views on ethnicity reeks of UK/US imperialism heritage where everything needs to be categorised and stamped, even when there's a goodwill to try to not being racist.

I really doubt I've said that about politicians, since my country parliament is very split on gender for a very long while. The leader of the political party i support is a woman and most of the MP's of the party are women.

EDIT: You find my views "outdated", because they're not aligned with the current Anglo-Saxon-centric views on race and diversity. Sure.


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 16:36 
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Cras wrote:
Oh and every time someone disagrees with you, you accuse them of insulting you.
´

You can disagree with me without being arrogant all the time.

Myp disagrees with me everytime, but for some reason he still comes across as nice and I'd still have a beer with him (I hope he's fine with it).


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 16:40 
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I can't quite get my head around what's going on here. I don't want to go through the film spoilers to find out.

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 16:43 
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Zardoz wrote:
I can't quite get my head around what's going on here. I don't want to go through the film spoilers to find out.

Have you seen Get Out?


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 16:45 
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No. That's why I don't want to read the spoilers.

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 16:47 
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Zardoz wrote:
No. That's why I don't want to read the spoilers.

Well, the first spoilered part of the convo was Ruysan questioning how racist the film is and me pointing out the characters' bone deep racist behaviour. Now you're caught up.


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 16:48 
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RuySan wrote:
I really doubt I've said that about politicians, since my country parliament is very split on gender for a very long while. The leader of the political party i support is a woman and most of the MP's of the party are women.

viewtopic.php?p=839913#p839913

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 16:52 
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Grim... wrote:
RuySan wrote:
I really doubt I've said that about politicians, since my country parliament is very split on gender for a very long while. The leader of the political party i support is a woman and most of the MP's of the party are women.

viewtopic.php?p=839913#p839913


Thanks man, that was pretty much figure of speech. "Politics" could have been an "Insert X". I said politics because that was probably what was going into the conversation. I know how many woman are interested in politics pretty much. Like i said, i was a militant for a political party (google "Bloco de Esquerda") and most of its MP's are woman.

Zardoz: Simply i don't think the racial message of the movie came across as well as it should, but looking into Metacritic i'm very much into the minority. Anyway, it's a good movie either way. watch it.


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 16:54 
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RuySan wrote:
Anyway, it's a good movie either way. watch it.


:this:


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 16:56 
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OK. Thanks, I will.

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 17:01 
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Grim... wrote:
RuySan wrote:
I really doubt I've said that about politicians, since my country parliament is very split on gender for a very long while. The leader of the political party i support is a woman and most of the MP's of the party are women.

viewtopic.php?p=839913#p839913


Ehehe, been reading that thing all over again. What was i doing in 2014? We need myp on this conversation to tell me how sexist i am. :DD


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 17:05 
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See you in 2022!

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 17:42 
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RuySan wrote:
Cras wrote:
Oh and every time someone disagrees with you, you accuse them of insulting you.
´

You can disagree with me without being arrogant all the time.

Myp disagrees with me everytime, but for some reason he still comes across as nice and I'd still have a beer with him (I hope he's fine with it).


And yet you still did the same to Myp in the thread Grim... linked:

Quote:
Jeeezzz, calm down man. You know nothing about me, and yet it didn't stopped you from name calling.


:shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 17:53 
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He actually called me sexist, so that was true. On the other hand we had many other disagreements since then but he put some effort in his arguments instead of just writing an insulting line of text like Craster or Gaywood.


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 18:12 
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You have to realise that Get Out (remember that?) was made by a black director for a black audience. It’s a horror comedy at its heart (and a schlocky one at that) not a social commentary. It might not be surprising that the subtle horror that prevails during the first half (to generalise: feeling like an outcast just because of your skin colour) would be lost on some white audiences.


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 18:24 
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Satsuma wrote:
You have to realise that Get Out (remember that?) was made by a black director for a black audience. It’s a horror comedy at its heart (and a schlocky one at that) not a social commentary. It might not be surprising that the subtle horror that prevails during the first half (to generalise: feeling like an outcast just because of your skin colour) would be lost on some white audiences.


I agree (just like i mentioned before) that the first half writing was great. And the subtle horror was also not lost on me (a "white" man who never suffered any real prejudice). That wasn't my issue with it, but then we would be going into spoiler territory all over again.


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 18:28 
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*covers eyes*

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 18:30 
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Zardoz wrote:
*covers eyes*


*Cuddles Zardoz*

He doesn't like it when mummy and daddy fight.


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 18:44 
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RuySan wrote:
Satsuma wrote:
You have to realise that Get Out (remember that?) was made by a black director for a black audience. It’s a horror comedy at its heart (and a schlocky one at that) not a social commentary. It might not be surprising that the subtle horror that prevails during the first half (to generalise: feeling like an outcast just because of your skin colour) would be lost on some white audiences.


I agree (just like i mentioned before) that the first half writing was great. And the subtle horror was also not lost on me (a "white" man who never suffered any real prejudice). That wasn't my issue with it, but then we would be going into spoiler territory all over again.


Was your issue:- why black people not white people?

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Who cares, it’s a contrivance. It’s like the old bodysnatchers stories. Would you like your race wiped out by an alien nation hijacking your body? What about if you were an oppressed race and your overlords started taking your bodies?


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 18:45 
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Just in case it's of interest -

https://twitter.com/ed_solomon/status/9 ... 8159255554



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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 19:30 
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Satsuma wrote:
(to generalise: feeling like an outcast just because of your skin colour) would be lost on some white audiences.


Racist!


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:49 
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Grim... wrote:
JBR wrote:
Couple of post credits scenes, including one right at the end (as per, but in case you think you might be sitting there for nothing, as I often do).

Bosh http://www.mediastinger.com into your bookmarks.


Duly, um, boshed*, thanks!

*Germaned?


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:52 
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JBR wrote:
Grim... wrote:
JBR wrote:
Couple of post credits scenes, including one right at the end (as per, but in case you think you might be sitting there for nothing, as I often do).

Bosh http://www.mediastinger.com into your bookmarks.


Duly, um, boshed*, thanks!

*Germaned?

I always thought there was a “c” in that.

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:36 
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I think we're looking at bish, bash, bosh rather than The Bosche here.

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:44 
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Almost forgot.

Phantom Thread. It's OK, but not one for many of the citizens of this fine thread. It's beautifully acted, well written and nicely directed. It alludes to fairytales a bit, in it's depiction of classic muse and Svengali scenario that it reverses in a slightly obvious fashion. I enjoyed it, even though in typical Paul Thomas Anderson fashion the narrative arc can go hang.

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:24 
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Schwarzenegger and Fassbender confirmed for Kung Fury sequel:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/02/15/sch ... ssic-kung/

I'm slightly concerned at their ability to keep the funny over a presumably longer running time but I suppose we'll see.


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:07 
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The Shape of Water.

Very beautiful and moving film. Really enjoyed this — I find it interesting that Del Toro can make a fairytale fantasy like this and it never crosses your mind how ludicrous the topic is. All the acting in it is astounding and it is of course beautiful to look at.

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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:18 
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Bamba wrote:
Schwarzenegger and Fassbender confirmed for Kung Fury sequel:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/02/15/sch ... ssic-kung/

I'm slightly concerned at their ability to keep the funny over a presumably longer running time but I suppose we'll see.

I thought that even the first one worked much better as a trailer than it did as a whole film.


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 Post subject: Re: The Movie topic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 22:39 
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Joined: 2nd Jun, 2008
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Lady Bird. Just wonderful. Boy, it made me weep. Very funny, too. Occasionally it doesn't quite flow, but fundamentally it avoids cinematic cliche - especially one scene near the end, when I really would have let it off - in favour of not showing you everything but making its point through the characterisation being so strong. Even the characters with much less screen time are well drawn.

Then I listened to the review of it later on in the same day and that was enough to set me off again.


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