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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 13:02 
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Lord Humongous

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The radio is acting as the Medium in your scenario though isn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 13:06 
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Thomas Edison is believed to have attempted to build a 'spirit phone' to talk to the deceased, and presumably to rip off their ideas.


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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 13:07 
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Zardoz wrote:
The radio is acting as the Medium in your scenario though isn't it?

That’s why it’s called medium wave.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 13:09 
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JohnCoffey wrote:
There was an experiment done many years ago where they locked a film roll into a box. I can't for the life of me remember what it was called though. I think all of the scientists who do engage in it keep it quiet. In fact, other than the people asking for Paypal donations I think most still do at fear of being ridiculed. It's still an enormously taboo subject and something that most dimiss out of hand.


It's not taboo at all. It's dismissed out of hand because it's never once been demonstrated publicly to be anything but nonsense.

And if scientists engaging in it keep it quiet then they aren't scientists. Evidence, peer review, and repeatability are what scientists do. Not secretly saying they've done things that can't be reproduced. The very fact that there is no reproducible evidence of the paranormal is pretty strong inherent evidence that it's utter horseshit designed to make money out of the credulous.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 13:14 
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You misspelled cretinous.


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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 13:21 
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DavPaz wrote:
You misspelled cretinous.

Hmm... I don’t know. I don’t think people are stupid to believe these things, but desperate a lot of the time, and that can lead to a certain naivety and willingness to believe in things that might usually be dismissed more readily. Grief is one of the main starting points (along with serious illness) for a belief in the afterlife and a hope of making contact with it.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 13:53 
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Gogmagog

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The thing that irks me about my death will be not being able to see Cras when he goes to collect The Riches I am leaving him in a lock up garage I am leaving to Riles secured with a padlock left to Kern needing a key left to Malc.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 13:55 
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MaliA wrote:
The thing that irks me about my death will be not being able to see Cras when he goes to collect The Riches I am leaving him in a lock up garage I am leaving to Riles secured with a padlock left to Kern needing a key left to Malc.


These are those deck chairs aren't they? Still one of the funniest things I've ever read.


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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 13:55 
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All your brother gets us a padlock to which he has no key?

Harsh.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 13:59 
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GazChap wrote:
Similarly, I know that time travel will not be possible in my lifetime because if it were, my current self would tell my future self to travel back to some point in the past and give me a sign.


There was a Warren Ellis story once about time travel wherein, due to Reasons, no one could travel back earlier than the point the time machine was first invented. This mean that that nanosecond the inventor completed it like every single time traveller that would ever exist suddenly arrived because everyone inevitably wanted to go back to the earliest point they possibly could; and that was it. I can't remember anything else about it, so I might be inventing parts of this or even the entire thing.


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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 14:23 
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MaliA wrote:
The thing that irks me about my death will be not being able to see Cras when he goes to collect The Riches I am leaving him in a lock up garage I am leaving to Riles secured with a padlock left to Kern needing a key left to Malc.


Grim... driving a tractor is an excellent key.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 14:25 
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Lord Humongous

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Mimi wrote:
Zardoz wrote:
The radio is acting as the Medium in your scenario though isn't it?

That’s why it’s called medium wave.

:D

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 14:27 
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Lord Humongous

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Cras wrote:
And if scientists engaging in it keep it quiet then they aren't scientists. Evidence, peer review, and repeatability are what scientists do. Not secretly saying they've done things that can't be reproduced.

Absolutely. I'm not a scientist and I engage in activities that I keep quiet about and can't reproduce.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 14:40 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Mimi wrote:
All your brother gets us a padlock to which he has no key?

Harsh.


Yeah, but I get key! woo!

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 14:46 
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Cras wrote:
MaliA wrote:
The thing that irks me about my death will be not being able to see Cras when he goes to collect The Riches I am leaving him in a lock up garage I am leaving to Riles secured with a padlock left to Kern needing a key left to Malc.

Grim... driving a tractor is an excellent key.

In.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 14:53 
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Shouldn't it be a brand new combine harvester?

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 14:56 
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A combine is plainly the wrong tool for smashing in a lockup door.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 14:57 
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Cras wrote:
A combine is plainly the wrong tool for smashing in a lockup door.

And a tractor isn't?


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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 15:07 
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INFINITE POWAH

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Cras wrote:
A combine is plainly the wrong tool for smashing in a lockup door.

If someone is like "I'll give you the key" to a piece of farm equipment, what should it be?

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 15:11 
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The farmhouse WiFi?

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 15:13 
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I'm sure i remember hearing of a spate of bank raids where people where just scooping up whole cash machines from the wall with giant diggers and driving off. That's the sort of direct, nonsense approach to crime I can see Grim and Cras getting behind.


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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 15:14 
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Sorry to be back on topic, but mandatory wikipedia entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

False pattern recognition is probably the first pillar of faith. How many people do not believe in coincidences and attribute them to fate and the presence of an higher power that governs their lives? I was raised in an atheistic family, so it was kind of scary, later on in my life, to realise how many people believe in fate.

And sorry about everything you and your ex-wife went through JC.


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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 15:15 
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Squirt wrote:
That's the sort of direct, nonsense approach to crime I can see Grim and Cras getting behind.

That might have been a typo, but it was spot on.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 15:21 
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MrChris wrote:
Squirt wrote:
That's the sort of direct, nonsense approach to crime I can see Grim and Cras getting behind.

That might have been a typo, but it was spot on.

Have played GTA with them, can confirm.


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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 15:40 
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RuySan wrote:
Sorry to be back on topic, but mandatory wikipedia entry:
And sorry about everything you and your ex-wife went through JC.


As am I. But when you are diagnosed with two pretty severe mental illnesses the last thing you should do is one day all of a sudden stop taking all of your medication, taking none. That was where the wheels fell off. I did everything I could, but you can't force medication down someone's throat. From that moment on she became incredibly belligerent, even stooping as low as picking a fight with my 73 year old mother reducing her to tears. The empathy only goes so far, and that was stepping over the line. Then she filed a pretty much non existent complaint with my mental health centre, making my life terribly awkward and so on.

Any way, I kinda suspected that many would dismiss the topic out of hand and I was kinda right, hence why it took me over six months to want to post about it. I figured once we found Higgs Boson the puzzle was solved, but even that doesn't answer all of the questions. Scientists recently found out that brain activity continues for quite a while after death.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 20131.html

And as of now we have absolutely no idea what it is doing. Some have suggested people actually know they are dead.

Of course I am not talking about quacks here, or people who profit by "cold reading" and etc. ITC has nothing to do with any of that.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 15:41 
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Lord Humongous

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MrChris wrote:
Cras wrote:
A combine is plainly the wrong tool for smashing in a lockup door.

If someone is like "I'll give you the key" to a piece of farm equipment, what should it be?

Your mum.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 15:55 
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I think most people here have sympathy for what happened I think it’s completely understandable that many people turn to a hope of a connection post-death which they seek via religion, the paranormal or other means. I don’t think people are dismissing your experience as a non significant one to you or your ex partner.

But (and there’s always one!) I think if you’re asking did anyone else here believe in it before you started the thread the answer is no, at least from the people who have replied. That’s fair enough. I’d say it was a minority belief and interest.

If you’re asking people to seriously consider it a possibility, though, I think you need to give a bit more foundation and evidence towards the possibility other than personal anecdote and an experiment you can’t remember. It’s not that people do not believe or have cause to doubt the experience you have, but many people have given a very valid reason why your interpretation of the phenomena might be something other than you heard (the fact that you and the only other person to hear these words both heard different words supporting that).

If you had the clip in question and other people could hear and you played that to a big enough group of people it that may have made a few people believe, more conclude it was just a coincidence and the result of the need to interpret and find patterns in everything around us, which every person on this forum apart from me has mentioned.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 15:56 
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I found something!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroni ... munication


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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 16:00 
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JohnCoffey wrote:
RuySan wrote:
Sorry to be back on topic, but mandatory wikipedia entry:
And sorry about everything you and your ex-wife went through JC.


As am I. But when you are diagnosed with two pretty severe mental illnesses the last thing you should do is one day all of a sudden stop taking all of your medication, taking none. That was where the wheels fell off. I did everything I could, but you can't force medication down someone's throat. From that moment on she became incredibly belligerent, even stooping as low as picking a fight with my 73 year old mother reducing her to tears. The empathy only goes so far, and that was stepping over the line. Then she filed a pretty much non existent complaint with my mental health centre, making my life terribly awkward and so on.

Any way, I kinda suspected that many would dismiss the topic out of hand and I was kinda right, hence why it took me over six months to want to post about it. I figured once we found Higgs Boson the puzzle was solved, but even that doesn't answer all of the questions. Scientists recently found out that brain activity continues for quite a while after death.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 20131.html

And as of now we have absolutely no idea what it is doing. Some have suggested people actually know they are dead.

Of course I am not talking about quacks here, or people who profit by "cold reading" and etc. ITC has nothing to do with any of that.


I just hope this isn't true. Being aware of being dead sounds terrible. Also, something from Philip K Dick's Ubik, which was horrific enough in parts.


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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 16:07 
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JohnCoffey wrote:
Of course I am not talking about quacks here, or people who profit by "cold reading" and etc. ITC has nothing to do with any of that.


Really? I mean I can't get into any of the actual sites here at work because my employer is wisely blocking all this nonsense, but even the text snippets that come back from a Google search for "spiritualist voice recorder" would suggest that so called spiritualists and mediums are using this sort of technique.


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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 16:29 
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The reason people think it is nonsense is because there has never been anything verifiable. Derren Brown can easily recreate anything that mediums, psychics and ICT types show as ‘proof’.

Do it in a repeatable form in stringent lab conditions with high quality independent observers and then maybe people will listen.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 16:36 
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Mimi wrote:
I think most people here have sympathy for what happened I think it’s completely understandable that many people turn to a hope of a connection post-death which they seek via religion, the paranormal or other means. I don’t think people are dismissing your experience as a non significant one to you or your ex partner.

But (and there’s always one!) I think if you’re asking did anyone else here believe in it before you started the thread the answer is no, at least from the people who have replied. That’s fair enough. I’d say it was a minority belief and interest.

If you’re asking people to seriously consider it a possibility, though, I think you need to give a bit more foundation and evidence towards the possibility other than personal anecdote and an experiment you can’t remember. It’s not that people do not believe or have cause to doubt the experience you have, but many people have given a very valid reason why your interpretation of the phenomena might be something other than you heard (the fact that you and the only other person to hear these words both heard different words supporting that).

If you had the clip in question and other people could hear and you played that to a big enough group of people it that may have made a few people believe, more conclude it was just a coincidence and the result of the need to interpret and find patterns in everything around us, which every person on this forum apart from me has mentioned.


I thought all of that Mimi. My wife has basically upset or pushed away every one in her life, including her own kids. She abandoned them and left them with their father when they were very young. She's had a very rough life, but she is also her own worst enemy.

Now obviously she has her obsessions because she was quite clearly autistic, and all of the time we were married and together she was obsessively doing something. As soon as her father died the first thing she wanted obviously was contact with him. So she turned to EVP. There was nothing I could say or do to change her mind, and as usual it is better just to leave her to it and get it out of her system. Try and fight her and she becomes obnoxious, angry and spiteful.

But with all of that aside I know what I heard. Especially when I have heard hours upon hours of Portuguese reversed gibberish. Because of her past and because of the things she has done to people (some pretty horrible stuff, tbh) I tried to explain to her that she may not get what she wants. This was before she even started.

I'm pretty much an expert on it all now, even though I really didn't want to be. I was dismissive, and at times made jokes about it. Used to ask her if she was ghost busting on that particular day etc. But even with my seriously pessimistic hat on I could not dismiss what I heard. And I have never believed there is nothing after death. I may have dismissed God and etc but I have always had this feeling there is an afterlife.

Recently I read about a poll that was done and something like 70% of British people thought there was one. Flying totally in the face of modern scientific belief. One thing I do know is that if there is one a lot of people may be hoping there isn't.

But when it comes down to it an awful lot of people do think about it and do have some sort of belief. Maybe out of fear? you know? of dismissing it out of hand and then being paranoid? I don't know.

Curiosity - that is how the world has become. Religion is a laughing stock (mostly made so by religious nut cases) and the general belief "These days" is that none of it exists and it's all BS. "Give me proof". The problem with that is that proof may never become apparent, because the last time I checked once you were clinically dead you stood no chance of coming back to talk about it. However, I have done a lot of research and it seems that people have been declared dead and then been resuscitated only to say "I saw a white light, or a person" or something along those lines or, "There was nothing there". However, usually when the person saw nothing they did not believe in it before it happened, let alone after.

I read something relatively recently about how when you die you may get what you believe. If you believe in something you will go there, if not you will be dead and that's it. It may have even been in a religious document, I dunno.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 17:19 
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Curiosity wrote:
Derren Brown can easily recreate anything that mediums, psychics and ICT types show as ‘proof’.
The episode of Messiah where he uses classic cold reading techniques to convince a room full of people he's talking to their dead relatives is very affecting, not least for how visibly shaken Brown is afterwards. It clearly made him very uncomfortable to see how easily he pulled it off. But then, that was the exact point he was making.


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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 17:30 
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JohnCoffey wrote:
proof may never become apparent, because the last time I checked once you were clinically dead you stood no chance of coming back to talk about it.

But you are literally telling us that they have found a way of coming back to talk about it. Or, indeed, call people names.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 17:35 
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JohnCoffey wrote:
I read something relatively recently about how when you die you may get what you believe.


I believe in miracles you sexy thing, sexy thing you.


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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 17:39 
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Proof is a strange and flexible concept. Ive seen proof of evolution... in that I have seen examples of the variance of features amount species, replicated in selective breeding in dogs, etc. I’ve never seen a dinosaur evolve over millions of years into a bird, but I’ve seen archaeopteryx fossils and other intimediate links between animals and that is offered as proof.

If people could, after death, manipulate sound files as you say they’d surely be dropping in to say hello to the gathered family festivities part way through Wham’s Last Christmas, and some cheeky beggar would definitely getting in on the Queen’s speech broadcast.

If they can manipulate random sounds into words that convey a message, why can’t they manipulate music to do the same? Audiobooks, and the like, for example.

If deceased people were able to do this I just think they’d use it far more readily, and perhaps tell us about the afterlife they inhabit rather than insulting people.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 17:39 
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JohnCoffey wrote:
I read something relatively recently about how when you die you may get what you believe. If you believe in something you will go there, if not you will be dead and that's it. It may have even been in a religious document, I dunno.

So if you believe that you're going to burn in hell, you will? Chilling.

Infinity. That's what terrifies me.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 17:39 
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So Hearthly will get another S4.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 20:33 
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DavPaz wrote:
JohnCoffey wrote:
I read something relatively recently about how when you die you may get what you believe. If you believe in something you will go there, if not you will be dead and that's it. It may have even been in a religious document, I dunno.

So if you believe that you're going to burn in hell, you will? Chilling.

Infinity. That's what terrifies me.


Whilst it was complete fiction I did watch a very interesting movie about infinity about, oo, 6 months ago?

Just Googled it. It is called The Discovery Give it a watch.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5155780/

It's kind of mind bending like The Butterfly Effect was.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 21:01 
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Comfortably Dumb

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Something that bugged me about The Discovery was the opening, where once it had been 'proven' that there was something after death, suicide rates rocketed as millions were rushing to see what was on the other side. I don't doubt that rates would increase, but not to the extent that the film makes out.

In terms of films, this thread has reminded me of 'White Noise' and 'Red Lights', White Noise in particular.. not a great film but highlights the reading things into random stuff.
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Although I'd rather it hadn't turned out that there was anything in it and it was more about a man going slowly nuts, but that wouldn't make for much of a horror film

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 21:43 
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Yes, it definitely has an air of pessimism about it. Kinda like it's not even worth living etc.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 21:50 
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Can any one remember what film it was where they took a picture with their camera and managed to time travel? that was another mind bender. I like movies like that. Sometimes it is hard to think these days with all of this science going on and answers for near on everything at your finger tips.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 21:58 
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Not what you're thinking of but has anyone else seen Brainstorm (1983) with Christopher Walken? Similar to The Discovery in that scientists become able to record the afterlife. I remember watching it late one night when I was about 12 and it fucked me up for months. I'd never even considered death, afterlife and infinity before that.


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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 22:14 
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12:01 PM is my favourite time travel film. Apart from those ones, obviously.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 22:37 
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2669336/

That's the bugger. Time Lapse.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 22:42 
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Grim... wrote:
12:01 PM is my favourite time travel film. Apart from those ones, obviously.


Hmmm. I recall beginning to watch a fantastic TV show about some old bloke in a diner. I can't recall anything else (it's been a tough year). I think it was Stephen King?

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 22:48 
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Primer is the best time travel film.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 22:51 
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JohnCoffey wrote:
Grim... wrote:
12:01 PM is my favourite time travel film. Apart from those ones, obviously.


Hmmm. I recall beginning to watch a fantastic TV show about some old bloke in a diner. I can't recall anything else (it's been a tough year). I think it was Stephen King?


Dodgeball

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 23:35 
SupaMod
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No, he means Reservoir Dogs.

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 Post subject: Re: The afterlife and ITC.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 23:56 
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2879552/

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