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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 20:11 
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Yeah, like that. The presentation is very tinfoil-hat-Internet but there's maybe enough of a point underneath the hyperbole to trouble Disney, if it gets traction.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 20:23 
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Grim... wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/7d1kj8/lets_not_forget_a_significant_portion_of_ea/ ?

I started reading bits of this thread by accident and because I’d never heard of loot crates and then started reading about them and then went down an Internet rabbit hole, as you do. Anyway, from what I can see this game has a PEGI rating of 16, and though I know that’s not the same as a film sale restriction certificate as far as legality of sale is concerned, it does perhaps suggest that the ‘they’ve made this as a ploy to rob our seven year olds’ moral panic has a very obvious ‘don’t ignore the age rating, if that’s your concern’ rebuttal. Obviously in REALITY LAND, parents will get their kids games... I saw it when I worked in HMV all the time, and all you can do is point out the rating and let them decide, but it does offer the publishers at least some cushion.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 21:09 
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No one pays attention to PEGI ratings the way they do to BBFC ones.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 21:15 
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Lonewolves wrote:
No one pays attention to PEGI ratings the way they do to BBFC ones.

Yeah, I pretty much said that.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:54 
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Nice mansplaining myp.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:40 
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FFS Myps.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:00 
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Very good thread on microtransaction-based game design, and what Battlefront did wrong, from a mobile game designer:
https://twitter.com/ZenOfDesign/status/ ... 2859344896




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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:03 
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:15 
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Mimi wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
No one pays attention to PEGI ratings the way they do to BBFC ones.

Yeah, I pretty much said that.

I apologise. I only skim read most of the forum yesterday. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:21 
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Also, it's Star Wars. The biggest franchise on the planet, and one that's considered pretty kid friendly.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:27 
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Pundabaya wrote:
Also, it's Star Wars. The biggest franchise on the planet, and one that's considered pretty kid friendly.


Order 66 disagrees

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:27 
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Pundabaya wrote:
The biggest franchise on the planet

I'm pretty sure that's 7-Eleven.

Unless you mean movie franchises! In which case it's the MCU. And then Harry Potter.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:57 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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MaliA wrote:
Pundabaya wrote:
Also, it's Star Wars. The biggest franchise on the planet, and one that's considered pretty kid friendly.


Order 66 disagrees


Well played.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:42 
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KovacsC wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Pundabaya wrote:
Also, it's Star Wars. The biggest franchise on the planet, and one that's considered pretty kid friendly.


Order 66 disagrees


Well played.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:50 
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EA appear to be recanting and have announced a ban on all real world purchases from the game. You can’t use money to buy upgrades.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:11 
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Wow.

Rumblings that Disney might have got directly involved, and also that the Belgian government are investigating if the lootbox system should be classified and regulated as gambling.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin ... 53f1551d64

https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/16/166 ... removed-ea


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:28 
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Quote:
The ability to purchase crystals in-game will become available at a later date, only after we’ve made changes to the game.


Translation:

Quote:
The ability to purchase crystals in-game will become available at a later date, only after all this fucking whining has stopped and you've all bought the game anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:33 
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Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:43 
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Bamba wrote:
Quote:
The ability to purchase crystals in-game will become available at a later date, only after we’ve made changes to the game.


Translation:

Quote:
The ability to purchase crystals in-game will become available at a later date, only after all this fucking whining has stopped and you've all bought the game anyway.


I always suspected that the games in the revival were easier.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:03 
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Grim... wrote:
Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.

I haven't seen anyone coming out in favour of the original system. I suppose that makes sense. Those that were happy, were playing the game :)


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:03 
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Grim... wrote:
Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.


Buh? You want to be exploited?

Takes all sorts, I suppose.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:17 
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I think this is absolutely brilliant. Consumer Power! It probably won’t change the system too much and predatory loot boxes alwill return in some form but other publishers will take note of this shit show.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:24 
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Grim... wrote:
Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.


There isn't en eye-rolling smiley big enough for this pish.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:26 
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Grim... wrote:
Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:37 
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Satsuma wrote:
I think this is absolutely brilliant. Consumer Power! It probably won’t change the system too much and predatory loot boxes alwill return in some form but other publishers will take note of this shit show.


The problem is almost everyone i know play shitty predatory games, and they don't care. They don't care about indie gaming or anything more pure. They'd rather play FIFA ultimate team or those horrible Star Wars and Marvel mobile games. These systems with lootboxes and grinding are made to be addictive and they work. Unless some there's some law stomping on these practices, it won't change any time soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:41 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.

Image

That’s so perfect in the way he points up towards the quoted text.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:42 
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That should be made as a single click insert on all forums. And Twitter.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 13:14 
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https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/11/ ... nope-nope/

Wow, Ars gave it an absolutely shoeing. And not just about the economy stuff either.

Quote:
One example: at every respawn, players land on the map in a group of four, but BFII does a poor job communicating how those squads could or should work together beyond "fight together for more battle points." (Battle points (BP) build up throughout a given match and are spent solely within combat to temporarily access higher-level characters and vehicles.)

For instance, should squadmates defend or buff each other in specific ways? The few powers that dole out valuable assists—like shields and "leadership" shouts—give zero rewards. It's also unclear during combat when those "doubled" bonuses actually accrue. And unlike Battlefield, BFII fighters can't have a leader "point" to a particular objective or zone and receive bonuses or boosts for focusing on it. The result: you quickly feel like a lone wolf out there, and the class-specific trappings lose importance.

Without those organic nudges, the online game, in practice, melts down to murder-hallways. This is, in part, because of some ho-hum level designs that encourage boring, non-strategic play, but also because players rack up more BPs when they put bullets into their foes. BPs drive your ability to temporarily climb into an X-wing, a TIE fighter, a walker, or the shoes of a legendary Star Wars character like Chewbacca, Yoda, Darth Maul, or Emperor Palpatine. Everybody wants to do that!

...

When players hop into a flying craft, either during specific BP-fueled moments on Galactic Assault maps or during the dedicated, ships-only Starfighter Assault mode, the feeling at first is nothing but awesome. DICE's Frostbite engine does a wonder with richly detailed spaceships, ridiculous draw distances, and probably-not-scientifically-accurate lighting effects.

The mode rarely surpasses that first-blush wonder, however, with incredibly mild control and attack options for each ship. These just aren't satisfying dogfights beyond basic, solid arcade-level thrills. Evasive maneuvers like loop-de-loops are practically impossible, and your best hope is to unlock the correct evasion-minded Star Cards through the course of gameplay. Meanwhile, when you board a flying craft during Galactic Assault battles, the results are weird. You don't get any special flight-specific objectives while you're up there, and many of the ships have nothing in the way of ground-specific attacks or perks to help with the objectives on the ground. You're mostly up there trying to awkwardly hit ground targets (with no radar system to help) and trading fire with enemies who made the same foolish BP purchase as you.

...

The speed at which cards are doled out in the course of standard gameplay is agonizingly slow. You'll need to play 7-9 matches to earn enough of BFII's "credits" currency to afford the most expensive, 4,000-credit loot boxes, which then contain a mix of unique Star Cards, credits, and crafting parts. (I break down the game's pukey soup of currencies and other economical issues here, but we're already in bad-news territory when I have to direct you to a freaking glossary to understand what's going on.)

...

This sucks from a sheer gameplay perspective, in which you can expect a higher-card player to do things like regenerate health faster and have wider grenade radii. But it also sucks from a "welcome to BFII" perspective because average battles play out like an advertisement for the game you wish you were playing. As I've previously said, good multiplayer shooters with progression systems are at least kind enough to set new players somewhere near their mathematical maximum. You eventually unlock alternate styles and options, which typically keep the game fresh. But, in practice, BFII taunts players with a severe gap between "one tier, one card" and "three near-max cards" players.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 13:37 
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Bamba wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.

There isn't en eye-rolling smiley big enough for this pish.

Not everyone has the time to grind their way through a game. There's nothing new about the loot system in BFII, babies are just crying because it's Star Wars (and EA, to an extent). Now they think they're fucking crusaders or something, when in reality nothing - nothing - is going to change.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 13:52 
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Grim... wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.

There isn't en eye-rolling smiley big enough for this pish.

Not everyone has the time to grind their way through a game. There's nothing new about the loot system in BFII, babies are just crying because it's Star Wars (and EA, to an extent). Now they think they're fucking crusaders or something, when in reality nothing - nothing - is going to change.


I'd rather prefer for there to be no grind at all. Level multiplayer battle field, and that. (AFAIK, current multiplayer darling Pubg has no such game play unlocks, only outfits. This is a better system)


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 13:59 
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Mr Dave wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.

There isn't en eye-rolling smiley big enough for this pish.

Not everyone has the time to grind their way through a game. There's nothing new about the loot system in BFII, babies are just crying because it's Star Wars (and EA, to an extent). Now they think they're fucking crusaders or something, when in reality nothing - nothing - is going to change.


I'd rather prefer for there to be no grind at all. Level multiplayer battle field, and that. (AFAIK, current multiplayer darling Pubg has no such game play unlocks, only outfits. This is a better system)

Hence my love for Counter-Strike :D

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 14:17 
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INFINITE POWAH

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Whiney fucking cunts killing video games. Jeeeeeesus

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 14:23 
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MrChris wrote:
Whiney fucking cunts killing video games. Jeeeeeesus

The moment you start offering people the choice to spend money in order to not play your game is the moment you need to take a long look at your games design.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 14:26 
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MrChris wrote:
Whiney fucking cunts killing video games. Jeeeeeesus

It's OK, they said the graphics are great so it's still a good game for incredibly shallow Star Wars fanboys.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 14:31 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
MrChris wrote:
Whiney fucking cunts killing video games. Jeeeeeesus

It's OK, they said the graphics are great so it's still a good game for incredibly shallow Star Wars fanboys.

Well that's a relief then. You had me worried for a moment.

In all seriousness, ill be picking this up because after playing the beta First Born is desperate for this. And for a ten year old this bollocks doesn't matter. He'll love the single player (the first he'll ever have played) and the offline skirmish, and, because he's ten, he'll already have a built in three star cards advantage in multiplayer because at that age they're fucking twitch ninjas.

That said, ill be telling him release date got put back....

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 14:43 
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Grim... wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Fuck all the people that play games differently to whinging Reddit shits, I guess.

There isn't en eye-rolling smiley big enough for this pish.

Not everyone has the time to grind their way through a game. There's nothing new about the loot system in BFII, babies are just crying because it's Star Wars (and EA, to an extent). Now they think they're fucking crusaders or something, when in reality nothing - nothing - is going to change.


Lol. If you're read all the chat about this both here and elsewhere and this is genuinely what you think then fine; nothing's going to convince you anyway. And if you're just trolling then I lose nothing by not engaging. Either way:

:shrug:


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 15:05 
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I'm not trolling, Gaywood just wanted to use that gif.

I'm probably never going to play the game, but I don't get the sense of entitlement of the people crying about the way it works - especially if they weren't intending to buy it anyway (and I guaran-damn-tee that a fucking huge proportion of the people mouthing off about it already own a copy).

EA said for ages this is how it was going to work. It's how it worked in the beta (with different numbers, but that makes sense). People that buy it don't somehow deserve anything more than what they're sold, unless what they're sold is broken.

In the case of something like [space game that I forget the name of] where the publishers promised one thing and released entirely another, I get the anger there. And I'm not saying loot boxes are a good idea - I don't hate them, but I hope they end up in every game either.

But if you think that the uproar is "for the good of the little man who can't help but spend all their money gambling on digital boxes" you're horrifically naive.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 15:07 
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No Mans Sky is the one you're looking for there.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 15:08 
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That's the fucker!

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 15:08 
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And it ended up great!

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 15:12 
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Grim... wrote:
And I'm not saying loot boxes are a good idea - I don't hate them, but I hope they end up in every game either.


If they're implemented well, then I don't actually see the harm, but by 'well', I mean entirely optional and the stuff in the boxes doesn't give you an advantage against other players. For instance, I did grumble about the crap I got from the Rocket League boxes, but even the best stuff in them are just other car variants. All of the loot box stuff just makes your car look/sound different and provide no advantage. No idea if that's the case with the BF stuff, but it wasn't a game I was going to buy anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 15:25 
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devilman wrote:
Grim... wrote:
And I'm not saying loot boxes are a good idea - I don't hate them, but I hope they end up in every game either.

[...]the stuff in the boxes doesn't give you an advantage against other players.

Why not?

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 15:29 
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Grim... wrote:
devilman wrote:
Grim... wrote:
And I'm not saying loot boxes are a good idea - I don't hate them, but I hope they end up in every game either.

[...]the stuff in the boxes doesn't give you an advantage against other players.

Why not?


Because anyone buying a game later than everyone else and playing online is already going to be at a disadvantage skill-wise. Them having better stuff makes that gap even wider.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 15:36 
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Mimi wrote:
That’s so perfect in the way he points up towards the quoted text.

My theory is that it's deliberate on behalf of the filmmakers.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 15:38 
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The text is at the bottom of the gif....?

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 15:43 
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LewieP wrote:
My theory is that it's deliberate on behalf of the filmmakers.


Presumably you mean the creator of the gif and not George Miller?


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 15:44 
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MrChris wrote:
The text is at the bottom of the gif....?


The quoted text. That which the gif is in reply to.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 15:46 
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Cras wrote:
MrChris wrote:
The text is at the bottom of the gif....?


The quoted text. That which the gif is in reply to.

Oh. Hmmm.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 15:46 
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Grim... wrote:
But if you think that the uproar is "for the good of the little man who can't help but spend all their money gambling on digital boxes" you're horrifically naive.


No, it's not. It's for the good of all game consumers who're sick of this kind of pish and would really like it to not get any worse. The fact that there's a subset of the population who could be massively financially impacted by this psychologically tuned-to-perfection horseshit is just the worst aspect of it all.

Frankly I don't understand your position in the slightest and it comes across like you're either just being contrary for the sake of it or because you actually bought the stupid thing and feel some need to defend that. The design of the game is shitty and greedy and is the sharp end of a horrible wedge that's been evolving for a while now; ergo people are complaining. People feel 'entitled' to be annoyed by it because they fucking are entitled! Either by dint of wanting to actually play a game that isn't trying to fuck them in the wallet while they do or because they would like to purchase other entertainment in the same medium that will not also try to fuck them in the wallet because it's been normalised here. This isn't like people demanding an easy mode be added to Dark Souls or whatever, this is people wanting to spend £50 on a game (or even £70 if they're a lunatic) and be safe in the knowledge that they won't then have to constantly battle systems designed to make them want to spend even more money on top of that.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 15:46 
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SavyGamer

Joined: 29th Apr, 2008
Posts: 7600
Findus Fop wrote:
LewieP wrote:
My theory is that it's deliberate on behalf of the filmmakers.


Presumably you mean the creator of the gif and not George Miller?

No I mean the filmmakers. I don't think the creator of the gif had any say in framing the shot or directing Tom Hardy.


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