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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:09 
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It always feels like we're going round in circles in this thread, and I really can't be arsed to check if I'm repeating myself (or just paraphrasing Ian Dunt or the New European or Richard Gaywood), but I keep on thinking that had Mrs May said on the steps of Downing Street something along the lines of 'we're going to leave the political part of the EU, but given the tightness of the result we're going to work with other parties and our European colleagues seek a settlement that captures a lot of what both sides want then put it to the public for ratification', I probably could have got behind that.

But she didn't, and won't, and it's all a shitstorm and I just want to go back to reading about railway trains and the American Civil War and stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 17:21 
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Here's an interesting report on the conclusions reached by a panel of ordinary people at an intensive deliberation event held by UCL's Constitution Unit.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 20:21 
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Participant in dramatic games

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I still love you guys. But i get joris’ point http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magaz ... he-england

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 21:08 
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Unpossible!

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romanista wrote:
I still love you guys. But i get joris’ point http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magaz ... he-england

That was a hard thing to read. So much truth


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 21:11 
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Unpossible!

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He really nailed the thing that bothers me most about us: The superiority complex.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 23:58 
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Hello Hello Hello

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romanista wrote:
I still love you guys. But i get joris’ point http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magaz ... he-england


That's a very good piece, thanks for the link :)

I'd send it to my Brexit supporting/voting in-laws and dad, but it wouldn't change their mind one jot. I've given up arguing with them about it. They wouldn't even read it. And then they'd buy the Telegraph/Mail next day, just as usual.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 23:06 
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Participant in dramatic games

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You're welcome. I was actually kind of scared to post it. Even though i regard you guys as my friends. And have been indulging british culture for at least 25 years, i honestly don't know how brexit moves you deep inside... Compared to Brexit, even the Italians ar simple (having lived there for quite some time)

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:07 
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You're welcome to come and invade us again. Worked out quite well in the late 17th century.

I've subscribed to 'Prospect' for several years and each edition takes about a month to read through its thought-provoking articles. That particular one, however, feels like something I'd read many times from the comment pages of the 'Guardian' or the 'New Statesman'. I note the author himself admits his debt to Orwell's 'Lion and the Unicorn' essay which is probably the best starting point for any discussion of Englishness (and I think this is an English, not British, issue).

Brexit is a shitstorm and has revealed the rather nasty subsoil underneath our modern, open, and tolerant gloss. But for all our faults (class; unbalanced wealth structure; povery; Pacer trains), there's a lot of good things that are worth celebrating (eg the NHS; the BBC; beer; the great outdoors).


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:18 
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Unpossible!

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and Kern.

But he probably thinks he's Cornish


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:59 
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Listening to Hillary Benn on the radio this morning made me wonder if the ultimate result of Brexit will be to achieve what many thought was impossible and make the British love the European Union. Life, after all, was so much easier when we could mock it without worrying about what it did.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:04 
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I was with you up until the Pacer trains bit. Some things are just best left unsaid, man.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:09 
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Gogmagog

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Cavey wrote:
I was with you up until the Pacer trains bit. Some things are just best left unsaid, man.


You like Pacer trains?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:09 
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Gogmagog

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Kern wrote:
Listening to Hillary Benn on the radio this morning made me wonder if the ultimate result of Brexit will be to achieve what many thought was impossible and make the British love the European Union. Life, after all, was so much easier when we could mock it without worrying about what it did.


Yes. I agree.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:13 
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MaliA wrote:
Cavey wrote:
I was with you up until the Pacer trains bit. Some things are just best left unsaid, man.


You like Pacer trains?


Some things are just too ghastly to contemplate or discuss in polite company. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:15 
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But to be serious, I very much doubt large swathes of the British public are ever going to "love" the EU, especially now more than ever. It's about to get very messy.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:17 
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Yeah, if anything it'll just get even worse. The Tories are inevitably going to blame them for being unreasonable and spiteful in the negotiations and every bad thing that happens will be cast by their tabloids as being the fault of the EU.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:19 
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Unpossible!

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... and then the murders began.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:25 
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It's all about damage reduction now.

The glimmer of hope for the future is that a large percent of the Brexit Belmers will be dying out soon making way for our hopefully more rational youth.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:27 
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Gogmagog

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Zardoz wrote:
It's all about damage reduction now.

The glimmer of hope for the future is that a large percent of the Brexit Belmers will be dying out soon making way for our hopefully more rational youth.


Who like Corbyn.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:29 
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Hibernating Druid

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Me not like Corbyn as much now.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:50 
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In the medium to long term, I now can't see any way out of another disastrous dalliance with Socialism, leaving the country bankrupt (again). It's the only way the up and coming generations are going to learn, just like my parent's generation did in the 70s.

Unfortunately the 2008 Labour Bankruptcy doesn't sufficiently register because Blair's Labour is perceived as 'not being Socialist' (even though it very largely was; just look at how the public sector grew, spending rocketed and personal liberties shrank), and despite the abject, public apologies of both their PM and senior Cabinet, there's always the "it wasn't us Guv, honest" excuse about Banks, Americans, Pixies etc.

So heads up sensible people, make hay whilst you still can. Winter is coming!

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:07 
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Rude Belittler

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Absolutely, socialist policies totally caused the financial crash. Also the world is flat, the Queen is a lizard person, 9/11 was an inside job and Big Pharma discovered the cure for cancer in 1979, but refuses to release it because they make more money treating cancer victims.

On the other hand, maybe Cavey is a Tory fuckhead who lives inside his own head?

Bring on socialism, its got to be better than this bunch of cretins.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:10 
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"Tory fuckhead" has a certain ring to it! :metul:

:D

You're beyond help, Pundy, but I need a laugh and reality break right now. Cheers. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:08 
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Gogmagog

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Cavey wrote:
I need a laugh and reality break right now. Cheers. :D


Cottage. You can 'be' Mr Chris

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:16 
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MaliA wrote:
Cavey wrote:
I need a laugh and reality break right now. Cheers. :D


Cottage. You can 'be' Mr Chris


Awesome! That's quite an upgrade :)

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:20 
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Sleepyhead

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Cavey wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Cavey wrote:
I need a laugh and reality break right now. Cheers. :D


Cottage. You can 'be' Mr Chris


Awesome! That's quite an upgrade :)


Oh, he's not that bad ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:24 
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Gogmagog

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Curiosity wrote:
Cavey wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Cavey wrote:
I need a laugh and reality break right now. Cheers. :D


Cottage. You can 'be' Mr Chris


Awesome! That's quite an upgrade :)


Oh, he's not that bad ;)


He's an AI we wrote. We didn't have a lot to go on, so we mostly reused code from autonomous forlkift truck.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:37 
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SavyGamer

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Spending on social housing, public services and public infrastructure are reasonable plans, but I think the biggest challenge for a Corbyn led government inheriting a post-brexit mess would be building strong international trade links.

I'm confident in his ability to lead with common sense, but it'll be a steep challenge.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:40 
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:DD

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:47 
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We're going to become an agrarian paradise! To the fields, citizens!


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:01 
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Bloke's a genius. We can just grown more food and we can make everything else here too. We don't need anyone else. Why did nobody think of this before? It's all just so easy and obvious. Brexit's going to be fucking amazing!


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:05 
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I'm pretty sure feudalism was an idea brought across the channel by those filthy Normans.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:57 
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Today, the House of Commons holds the second reading of the Nuclear Safeguards Bill, written to cover some of the holes left in the regulation of nuclear material caused by the public's vote to leave Euratom (did you not notice that question on the ballot paper last June?). The official parliamentary research briefing states that the bill is an empthy shell, waiting to be filled up by yet more secondary legislation, because, hey, why should MPs and peers bother themselves with the complexities of this issue.

Quote:
This Bill would allow the Government to make regulations for, and implement international agreements in relation to, nuclear safeguarding. This is required once the UK leaves Euratom. However, the Bill does not set out what the regulations will look like, but does include a duty to consult at least the UK’s Office for Nuclear Regulation.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:51 
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Sitting balls-back folder

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More importantly, who is ensuring our access to German malts?

I'm disturbed how little public talk there is about the British beer industry.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 15:02 
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Grayling in Feb 2016 ("of course we'll have free trade, it'll be easy to negotiate that") versus Grayling this week ("of course the negotiations are difficult") is fucking depressing.

https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/9 ... 1063301120




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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 15:06 
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BikNorton wrote:
More importantly, who is ensuring our access to German malts?

I'm disturbed how little public talk there is about the British beer industry.


Ask the Wetherspoons guy. As a prominent Leave campaigner, he'll have the answers.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 18:04 
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Hot off the heels of this news of meltdown of the British economy, the FTSE100 and FTSE250 fell off the edge of a cliff by 0.1% and 0.2% respectively today. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:40 
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Participant in dramatic games

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BikNorton wrote:
More importantly, who is ensuring our access to German malts?
I'm disturbed how little public talk there is about the British beer industry.


Would access to German malts not ruin what's left of the british beer industry?

Anyway.. local craft beers first!

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:52 
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It's all about the American hops these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:55 
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And what's Her Majesty's Government's policy on preparing for the 'no deal' scenario? Optimism, apparently.

Home Office questions, yesterday

Quote:
Ben Bradshaw:
...
Given all the other demands on his budget that we have heard about today, is it not grossly irresponsible for some of his Cabinet colleagues to be running around talking up the prospects of a no deal, instead of being level with the public about any trade-offs that will inevitably result in a Brexit deal?

Brandon Lewis:

I am optimistic that we will get a good deal both for the UK and for our partners in Europe, so that we can work together as forward-looking partners, but we are also actively monitoring work flows at the border to ensure that we have sufficient resources in place to meet demand. As my colleagues across the Government and in the Cabinet have said, it is absolutely right that we do plan for all eventualities.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:58 
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And Mr Lewis's answer to the next question is even clearer:

Quote:
I appreciate my hon. Friend’s comments about my demeanour, and I will always try to remain optimistic and happy about the fact that we are focused on ensuring that we keep our borders secure and that we are ready for any outcome at the end of the negotiations.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:09 
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I wonder if May has prepared her three envelopes yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:13 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I wonder if May has prepared her three envelopes yet.


:DD

What if she sent the wrong ones to the submarines?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:52 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
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So, what is everyone's predictions for the actual state of Brexit come March 2019? I'm teetering between "Transition deal that basically maintains the status quo for another two years" and "Tory leadership coup, collapse of negotiations and hard, no deal Brexit"


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:22 
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I'm edging towards a continually-renewed limited transition period where we get blue passports and fuck all else that's different but right now all that I'm certain of is that nobody will take responsibility for any of what happens. The only appeal of Boris Johnson becoming Prime Minister in the near future is that it would totally destroy his reputation forever.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:33 
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I'm actually fairly optimistic now that this will be a good old fashioned EU fudge... measurably worse in every single way than if we'd stayed in of course, but not catastrophically so, and at least some kind of basis whereby the movers and shakers - the business men and women of the UK - can move forwards and operate, likely with some kind of renewing "transition period" possibly lasting a decade or so, as Kern mentions.

At least Juncker is making the right sorts of noises now; the Spanish crisis looms large, and the EU can no longer afford an outright schism with Britain.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 13:32 
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Commander-in-Cheese

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Any transition period that includes current rules on freedom of movement, EU judicial oversight, etc will not appease the right - and appeasing the right was the only possible reason for the government to go along with the whole thing in the first place.
So the government may as well at this point take every step they can towards revoking A50 and cancelling the whole sorry shitshow.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 13:40 
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Gogmagog

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Cras wrote:
Any transition period that includes current rules on freedom of movement, EU judicial oversight, etc will not appease the right - and appeasing the right was the only possible reason for the government to go along with the whole thing in the first place.
So the government may as well at this point take every step they can towards revoking A50 and cancelling the whole sorry shitshow.


Hi! Alastair!

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... nt-be-done

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:54 
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Withdrawal bill delayed again. I'm torn between thinking this was their game plan all along and hold back before coming out with their preferred version containing just enough sweetners for the Tory rebels, and thinking that it's another example of the current government's general incompetence and confusion (or, as we call it, Brexit).


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:06 
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Prince of Fops

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https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/921099927958192128


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