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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 18:09 
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At least he can just use the 'I was pissed all the time' excuse, and say that he's sorted himself out now so is totally down with all the shit he's doing and saying so we should pay attention to him.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:08 
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Watching the whole of last night's 'Question Time Article 50' special reminded me why I don't usually watch QT. Nick Clegg was very good, Alex Salmond was surprisingly less annoying than usual (other than his saltire tie), and David Davis was a little bit too unrevealing and seemed to lack the firery passion he used to have.

The audience were as irritatingly missing the point as usual and there was the usual rambling man making no sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:10 
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Oh, and Sir Keir Stamner (sp?) came across as pretty confident but still trying to walk a tight rope. A painful reminder that with the right leadership we could someday have an opposition party.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:25 
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I've read a few articles now that suggest David Davis has started to realise the complexity and impossibility of the task that lies ahead in the Brexit negotiations, and how woefully unprepared and understaffed the government is to take it on. (i.e. They'll never be able to deliver even the vaguest approximation of all the crap they've promised.)

Maybe he's starting to have second thoughts?

(I didn't watch QT by the way, there's far too much audience participation these days and has been for years, to the point that I invariably want to murder some witless cunt within the first ten minutes.)


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:44 
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Hearthly wrote:
I've read a few articles now that suggest David Davis has started to realise the complexity and impossibility of the task that lies ahead in the Brexit negotiations, and how woefully unprepared and understaffed the government is to take it on. (i.e. They'll never be able to deliver even the vaguest approximation of all the crap they've promised.)

Maybe he's starting to have second thoughts?


All political decisions disappoint or hurt someone. Balancing all the competing interests is the politician's art. I can't see a solution to the Brexit puzzle that's going to please all of the 52%, let alone the rest of the country. And, right now, the Tories aren't even laying the ground for a retreat if one becomes necessary.

Quote:
(I didn't watch QT by the way, there's far too much audience participation these days and has been for years, to the point that I invariably want to murder some witless cunt within the first ten minutes.)


See also: public lectures. I came to hear the speaker, not a random member of the audience. If you can't phrase your question in one or two sentences, go and hold your own talk somewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 15:49 
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Hearthly wrote:
I've read a few articles now that suggest David Davis has started to realise the complexity and impossibility of the task that lies ahead in the Brexit negotiations, and how woefully unprepared and understaffed the government is to take it on. (i.e. They'll never be able to deliver even the vaguest approximation of all the crap they've promised.)

Maybe he's starting to have second thoughts?

That's why the government and the media are softening us all up for a no-deal Hard Brexit, on WTO trading rules. And will spin that as a victory.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 16:10 
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I dunno. The Guardian was reporting today that insiders are realising how awful that would be and are trying to avoid it. But the simple answer is that whilst Brexit might not turn out to be a disaster in the long run, in the short term any deal we get with the EU will be empirically worse than our current deal.

They're going to need a lot of jam and bunting to sell it.

As an aside, fucking UKIP have realised that once Brexit happens they no longer have a reason to exist, and so their 'six tests' (always six!) have been made impossible to meet, so they have something to moan about.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 16:12 
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Curiosity wrote:
As an aside, fucking UKIP have realised that once Brexit happens they no longer have a reason to exist, and so their 'six tests' (always six!) have been made impossible to meet, so they have something to moan about.

This sentence is hurting my brain. What do you mean?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 16:19 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
As an aside, fucking UKIP have realised that once Brexit happens they no longer have a reason to exist, and so their 'six tests' (always six!) have been made impossible to meet, so they have something to moan about.

This sentence is hurting my brain. What do you mean?


UKIP will have achieved its mission so would be redundant. To stop this, they have devised 6 things they want fron Brexit, with varying levels of achievability. So, as long as these six things are not done, UKIP can continue.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 16:43 
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Because otherwise the Establishment is going to betray their revolution.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 16:51 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
As an aside, fucking UKIP have realised that once Brexit happens they no longer have a reason to exist, and so their 'six tests' (always six!) have been made impossible to meet, so they have something to moan about.

This sentence is hurting my brain. What do you mean?


UKIP have come up with six tests that Brexit must meet to be acceptable.

UKIP have made at least one of these impossible.

UKIP have done this because their entire purpose was to achieve Brexit, but now that has happened they don't want to just walk away; they like the money they get and the feeling of importance! So rather than accept Brexit and become irrelevant, they need to find fault with it.

Hence the tests.

The impossible one is the budget and oversight one, FYI.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:25 
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One tiny, tiny positive of Article 50 being triggered is that the Facebook crowing from some of my Facebook friends that filled my timeline when they 'won' the referendum has been completely absent today. In fact, those friends have been very quiet on the subject for some time now. Maybe they're being quiet out of consideration for others, but I hope it's more down to the fact that they're realising that Brexit may not be a good idea after all.

The Nick Clegg piece on Newsnight was pretty depressing viewing (not just because of Nick Clegg) where he visited Ebbw Vale. Locals moaning about immigration (it's 2% there) and EU money being spent badly in the town among other things (it looks like they received a fair amount of EU money went there, so I'm not sure where they think any more money is going to come from now).

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:44 
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I removed the only active supporter of Brexit from my friends list so everything is lovely in my Facebook bubble. :D

(Not for that reason - although I suspect he probably thinks it was.)

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:58 
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Here's the exit letter, via gov.uk.

The TL;DR:
Quote:
It's not you, it's me


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:59 
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Jesus Christ that goes on.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 13:03 
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This is what taking back control looks like:

The Prime Minister wrote:
We also understand that there will be consequences for the UK of leaving the EU: we know that we will lose influence over the rules that affect the European economy. We also know that UK companies will, as they trade within the EU, have to align with rules agreed by institutions of which we are no longer a part – just as UK companies do in other overseas markets.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 14:33 
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What the fuck is this? Pretty sure no-one mentioned anything about this in either the Remain or Leave campaigns.

Quote:
In addition, in accordance with the same Article 50(2) as applied by Article 106a of the Treaty Establishing the European Atomic Energy Community, I hereby notify the European Council of the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the European Atomic Energy Community.


Although I guess if they had the Leavers would just be all "we don't want any of that nuclear power malarky over here" :(


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 14:36 
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Nobody was aware of it until it appeared in the A50 bill. Euratom, it turns out, uses EU institutions to function and so we have to leave because we don't want to be ruled by the EU court. I'll dig out the speeches in the Commons on this later, but it does come across as petty and self-destructive as everything else.

Nuclear research is big here in the Shire, and local MPs were angry about not being warned of this.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 14:42 
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Theyworkforyou link to a bit from the A50 bill debate:

David Davis wrote:
Let me deal with the question of Euratom. Euratom and the EU share a common institutional framework, including the European Court of Justice, a role for the Commission and decision making in the Council, making them uniquely legally joined. Triggering article 50 therefore also entails giving notice to leave Euratom


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 15:11 
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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 15:13 
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Didn't you hear her speech? We're now all united and behind our Prime Minister, wanting the BEST DEAL for BRITAIN.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 18:02 
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At 19:00 on BBC1, Andrew Neil is interviewing the Prime Minister and Mr Corbyn about this farce. I'll probably tune in, although it does clash with the 'Archers' and in my current mood I'm only going to end up throwing something at the telly.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 22:02 
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Neither Mrs May or Mr Corbyn came out of it well. The prime minister looked very awkward throughout, even though I felt Andrew Neil was a bit soft early on. She really didn't like the £350 million being raised, and was generally non-committal. I'm already tired of being told we're aiming to get the best deal, because it's a completely vacuous statement.

Mr Corbyn looked even more uncomfortable, and whilst occasionally he'd stumble on some interesting points they weren't developed, and at times he came across as far too defensive. Labour had the second longest piece of airtime, and frankly needed someone able to make use of it.

Afterwards, Tim Farron, Paul Nuttall, and a guy from the Greens whose name escapes me, all shared a table and had a far more livelier time. Mr Farron and the Greenie were showing the passion that the Labour leader lacked. Bonus points to the Greenie for actually talking about throwing away young people's opportunities.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 22:09 
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Kern wrote:
Bonus points to the Greenie for actually talking about throwing away young people's opportunities.
i didn't realise that was something the Greens were in favour of

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 22:13 
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Which bin do they go in?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 22:23 
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Kern wrote:
Which bin do they go in?

The Corbyn.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 22:47 
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Mr Russell wrote:
Kern wrote:
Which bin do they go in?

The Corbyn.


Brilliant

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 23:09 
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Fuck me, the last couple of Mail front pages have been an utter fucking disgrace. No wonder so many people act like nobheads when this is the kind of.... 'information' they are presented with.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 0:13 
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Kern wrote:
Neither Mrs May or Mr Corbyn came out of it well.

But which had the best legs?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:00 
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Kern wrote:
Nobody was aware of it until it appeared in the A50 bill. Euratom, it turns out, uses EU institutions to function and so we have to leave because we don't want to be ruled by the EU court. I'll dig out the speeches in the Commons on this later, but it does come across as petty and self-destructive as everything else.

Nuclear research is big here in the Shire, and local MPs were angry about not being warned of this.


That's not right. Science Twitter was banging on about this yonks ago, and tried to make a fuss of it, I'm sure. Just nobody cares because it it isn't THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:24 
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Grim... wrote:
Kern wrote:
Neither Mrs May or Mr Corbyn came out of it well.

But which had the best legs?


The sidetables.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:32 
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Curiosity wrote:
That's not right. Science Twitter was banging on about this yonks ago, and tried to make a fuss of it, I'm sure. Just nobody cares because it it isn't THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.


Ed Vaizey MP (Con, Wantage) comes across as genuinely surprised by this in the debate back in February:
Quote:
I am so angry with the Government over their position on Euratom. Not a single Minister has contacted me, my hon. Friend Nicola Blackwood or my hon. Friend John Howell. The Culham research centre, the site of the Joint European Torus, employs hundreds of people and is at the heart of nuclear fusion research. We have all been inundated with countless emails from people who believe they are losing their job. The European Space Agency is in my constituency. If the Government are to make such an announcement in the explanatory notes of a Bill, at least they could alert the relevant MPs beforehand, and at least they could provide my constituents with a definitive statement about the future of European co-operation on civil nuclear engineering.


I'm not sure he would have been quite so condemnatory if he had been aware of it beforehand, unless he had previously pressed the issue and come up against a brick wall.

Perhaps this should have been written on the side of the bus. Although I can only imagine some riposte from Mr Gove about how we give 350,000,000 electrons to European atoms every week or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:41 
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Ah, I thought you meant it was new to them in May's letter yesterday.

I may well be thinking of the stuff you linked to, as that was two months ago and I have long since lost any grip on the concept of time.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:53 
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D Davies was on Today this morning being all rather uobeat about the whole shebang. Gotta give him some credit for the shit sandwich he's got to season, and his cheerfulness over it. Anyway, despite all this, the starting position seems to be "we'll go for no change, really" so it is going to be all downhill from there.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 13:11 
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And everyone who voted for it will still get to moan about the EU from now until the day they die for not giving us everything we ask for. When it all ends up as the horrible, pointless, cripplingly expensive mess we all said it would it will be not their fault but that of the bloody foreigners. And so it will go on.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 13:23 
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The whole 'enacting the will of the people' schtick is really annoying. Not just because I don't think the Conservatives are fans of Rousseau, or because 'the will of the people' always lines up exactly with whatever the speaker is wanting, but because it comes across as deflection and avoidance of responsibility. If things go tits up, they can say it won't be the government or Parliament's fault, but ours.

The referendum took place nine months ago, and the government have adopted Brexit as their policy. They didn't have to, but they did. So whatever lies in store for us (Freedom! Global Trade! Billions for the NHS! Blue Passports! Casual Xenophobia!), for good or ill, is now, as far as I concerned, the responsibility of the Conservative administration and those who voted with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 13:30 
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Duty Free!


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 13:31 
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DavPaz wrote:
Duty Free!


Yes! Also, proper customs doors! I am always reminded of Julian Barnes' line in "Flaubert's Parrot" that going through the green channel makes one feel like a failure.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 13:34 
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Kern wrote:
The whole 'enacting the will of the people' schtick is really annoying. Not just because I don't think the Conservatives are fans of Rousseau, or because 'the will of the people' always lines up exactly with whatever the speaker is wanting, but because it comes across as deflection and avoidance of responsibility. If things go tits up, they can say it won't be the government or Parliament's fault, but ours.

The referendum took place nine months ago, and the government have adopted Brexit as their policy. They didn't have to, but they did. So whatever lies in store for us (Freedom! Global Trade! Billions for the NHS! Blue Passports! Casual Xenophobia!), for good or ill, is now, as far as I concerned, the responsibility of the Conservative administration and those who voted with them.
There are too many people I blame in varying degrees. I'd have to make an chart of them all showing respective culpability but right at the top would be Pig Fucker Cameron. Even Osborne told him it was a stupid idea FFS.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:38 
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Just skimmed the draft EU negotiating guidelines, via the Beeb. Paragraph 22 has the potential to open up a whole new world of fun:

Quote:
After the United Kingdom leaves the Union, no agreement between the EU and the United Kingdom may apply to the territory of Gibraltar without the agreement between the Kingdom of Spain and the United Kingdom.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 15:15 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ber-brexit

Quote:
Up to 100,000 UK jobs at risk as Merkel and Juncker ally warns on euro clearing


http://news.sky.com/story/no-signed-fut ... y-10824347

Quote:
No signed 'future' Brexit deal within two years, says Theresa May

The UK will adopt 'third party status' in order to conduct trade negotiations after the two-year Article 50 process, says the PM.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 15:42 
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Sometimes I kid myself into thinking that Mrs May is being ultra-manipulative and is working with the remain wing of her party and leaders of EU countries to make Brexit so difficult, so unachievable, and so much of a drawn-out clusterfuck that she can at last minute steer the ship away from the iceberg or pull the aeroplane safely out of its dive and go down in history as the person who saved Britain from itself.

Then I wake up and realise that that's far too clever a scheme even for Francis Urquhart.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:32 
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Everything's going fine:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... own-jewels

I'm glad we have a set of sensible, intelligent, grown-up Tories and the impressive Theresa May to steer the good ship UK through all of this.

Britain set to lose EU ‘crown jewels’ of banking and medicine agencies

Quote:
The EU is set to inflict a double humiliation on Theresa May, stripping Britain of its European agencies within weeks, while formally rejecting the prime minister’s calls for early trade talks.

The Observer has learned that EU diplomats agreed their uncompromising position at a crunch meeting on Tuesday, held to set out the union’s strategy in the talks due to start next month.

A beauty contest between member states who want the European banking and medicine agencies, currently located in London, will begin within two weeks, with selection criteria to be unveiled by the president of the European council, Donald Tusk.

The European Banking Authority and the European Medicines Agency employ about 1,000 people, many of them British, and provide a hub for businesses in the UK. It is understood that the EU’s chief negotiator hopes the agencies will know their new locations by June, although the process may take longer. Cities such as Frankfurt, Milan, Amsterdam and Paris are competing to take the agencies, which are regarded as among the EU’s crown jewels.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:52 
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It's really not surprising that those things are moving. Shame about the loss of British jobs, but not unexpected


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:34 
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DavPaz wrote:
It's really not surprising that those things are moving. Shame about the loss of British jobs, but not unexpected


It's the wanton economic vandalism Brexit represents that boils my piss, the brave and proper thing for the government to have done, after Cameron fucked off fucking humming jauntily to himself, would be to say 'Yeah, Brexit, worst idea ever, we're not doing it, here's why, and we're calling a general election on the platform of not wanting to fuck everyone in the ass.'



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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 15:08 
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Meanwhile, in Brexit news, the EU Commission has again reminded people that agencies based in London (BBC) will move after we leave, despite protestations from the government. Barry Manilow was unavailable for comment.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 15:38 
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I work three doors down from the EMA. That's a big-ass building that's going to sit empty for a good while.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 16:44 
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Cras wrote:
I work three doors down from the EMA. That's a big-ass building that's going to sit empty for a good while.


Get in there early, offer them a tenner for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 17:14 
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Register your speciality BBQ company "Excellent Meat Associates", get some business cards and headed letter paper made up, and then the day after they've relocated, just rock up and take over. Hope no one checks, and that the landlord keeps sending the bill to the EU.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 17:29 
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Location: Sunny Stoke
Squirt wrote:
Register your speciality BBQ company "Excellent Meat Associates", get some business cards and headed letter paper made up, and then the day after they've relocated, just rock up and take over. Hope no one checks, and that the landlord keeps sending the bill to the EU.


I was thinking more along the lines of getting a new sign put up saying 'BEEX UK Headquarters'

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You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen. RIP, MrC.

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