Be Excellent To Each Other

I am reasonably sure from his carney scaremongering that Malc is Mafia.
I'm also inclined to agree with it.
[vote:unvote]

So who the hell is a carney!
Sinister? KovacsC?

Let's assume (which could be a bad idea) that there are 6 townies, 3 carnies and 3 mafia.

All I know, is that at this moment in time, me and Trooper fit into the townie pile.
I don't think that APoD is mafia.
Sinister and Kovacs aren't mafia

That leaves Zaphod, Malc, Alarm, Gilly, Bobbyaro, LaceSensor & Mr Russ as potential mafia.

With the numbers getting thinner, assuming that the carnies can't recruit mafia, they probably acted on my word yesterday and recruited Sinister or Kovacs (assuming they hadn't already recruited them both).
Of course, if the carnies have tried and failed to recruit any mafia, they'd know who they were and would be pushing us to lynch them. - This is probably worth looking into.

That is a salient point. Certainly worth looking into.

If we want to go for Townie, and it is between Kovacs (assuming he is now Carny) and Malc, Malc is more likely the Carny king.

I'm also thinking that the Mafia are going to be wary of showing their hand today, so they will either join a bandwagon late, or not vote at all. This gives me bad vibes about Bobby and SA. Kovacs is apparenly not Mafia (per Joans) and Joans is Joans. However, I'm not ruling out Joans being recruited and hence misleading.

Accordingly, for now, [vote:malc] even if he wasn't a voice on my box, and we can consider todays actions with that info if he is lynched.

Obviously, not "if we want to go for townie". Stupid client disrupting my post.

Who was it that was saying about making obvious mistakes?

I already told you SA had a win condition of town on night 2, so he can't be mafia (unless there's a mafia recruitment drive going on as well, or perhaps he's an FBI agent with a random win condition).
Unless of course, you think I'd been recruited before yesterday, and was willing to sacrifice Craster to make you all ignore the fact that I'm the carney leader.
Which is actually a really good plan, and I bet the real carney leader wishes they'd had it.

My college class of hat students and I are put for lunch which is why I've gone a bit quiet *chews*

STILL nothing from Bobby?or the psychic/ vision reciever. Seems pretty clear they are on the baddies side otherwise why would they withhold this info? Of the psychic is good, they need to tell us who they sent visions to and of last night.

I can't see anything, so either I've missed it, or the carnies have been successful every night.

FFS Gilly, okay, you are probably a townie, but you really aren't helping. You scatter gun approach to finger of doom is really making it difficult to pull out the wheat from the chaff. so far you have made 3 or 4 lists of suss people, all of which are different, you suspect Mr Russ and I for not posting about APOD's comment, but haven't stopped posting to allow us to catch up!

I am almos back in real time and shall then comment accordingly, but please calm down as you are making it very easy for the people to start bandwagons. You have already seen a message (true or false to be debated) stating the Mafia are waiting for someone to point at their desired target, and you are throwing accusations all over the place giving them the opportunity they crave.

I'm now fairly sure that Zaphod and Bobbyaro are mafia.

Trooper - At least I correct my mistakes

Most likely roles in my view

Mafia - Bobbyaro, Lacesensor, (possible) trooper - see below
Carney - Malc, Joans, Alarm, Trooper (possibly only 3 of them though)

I say Trooper because Joans apparenly investigated Trooper last night. I think it is highly likely that Joans is now the Carney detective, and that Trooper is Mafia recruited by the Carneys. Mafia (possibly) wouldn't know this. Therefore, Joans had to report Town for Trooper, as saying Carney would be ridonculous, but saying Mafia would also force a bandwagon that even the Mafia would have to jump on, leading to another Carney being lynched.

I know a lot of people are thinking Alarm for Mafia rather than Carney, but I'd say his behaviour changed slightly between the beginning and now.

We also don't know who the phantom door-gluer is working towards. The message didn't mention that, which suggests not Mafia (or, of course, this could have been left out).

You're right, that is pretty ridonculous.

okay, my thoughts.
I don't get the following:
1) Why is Joans still alive?
2) Who the phantom locker is working for.
3) Why people are believing Joans when surely the Carnies would have recruited him last night.
4) Is Gilly confirmed townie?
5) Zaphod's behaviour in this game, he has (until today) flown right under the radar, and is even now being dismissed again.
6) Malc
7) I can't believe, given the number of people in this small town that the carnies started with more than one person.
Malc.
9) APOD's cryptic message: Why is everyone assuming that the reference to a previous bandwagon is referring to yesterday only? You all went, "what happened yesterday? Oh nothing, okay, that's fine." Then ignored the message! We need to go back through the days and look for other attempted band wagons.


I will have a longer think, but please remember my tattoo parlour is obviously busier than your hat parlour, and as such I can't always instantly respond. That does not make me a bad guy.

hang on, me telling Gilly not to actively help makes me the dodgy one?

Is Gilly actually confirmed townie, sorry if I have missed it, but at the moment she seems to be helping the mafia.

1) The message says why the mafia left me alove
2) A mafia roleblocker seems likely?
3) Why would they recruit me when the mafia would've been expected to kill me?
4) Definitely not.
5) I've pointed at him several times today.
6) Yeah, I know.
7) I have assumed one.
I know, again.
9) The note is clearly referring to the bandwagon that was going on against Craster yesterday, which several people then dropped out of. There are other parts of the message that refer to other days, that I've only just realised what they could mean.

You're right! Assuming that not all the message relates to yesterday

"We need to act differently or at least space it out"

Could well be a reference to my voting pattern analysis.

Bobby my list of suspicious people has been pretty constant actually.
I am not confirmed towny, how could I be when Joans is the only investigator we know of. If you have taking as long as you claim to read through this then you should really know that.
I tried to logically consider wether joans and trooper can be trusted and reasoned that they could, if you debate this then could you please explain the scenario so as everyone can understand, as coming up with a theory and keeping it to yourself helps no one.
I forget what else you said.
I still find your silence today very suspicious and don't really believe that you have been trying to speak but I have been talking too much for you to be able to. I suspect you didn't want to say anything to try and slip under the radar and was then perhaps notified by a teammates of mounting suspicion?also, I did comment that perhaps we should look for possible block voting on previous days to see if it ties in with the box thing, so ner.

yes, yes it does. Is the fact we're actually debating things today and trying to apply logic to proceedings and actually looking at voting patterns making you nervous? Because I've never heard of a townie asking people to stop talking.
If I am a townie, talking is good because I'm trying to figure things put.
If I was mafia or carney, talking is good because it would give townies more info about me.
As a townie, the only people who would want me to shut up is mafia or carney.

Also, FFS I think I mentioned Bobby once or something before Joans pointed a finger at him. So why are you jumping all over me bobby as if I have been a target on your face all day?
also also, if I was a baddy I'd be the worst one ever. I could force myself to speak less y'know, but since I'm actually trying to help then I've not been doing that.

Gilly, I am not criticising the debating, I am attempting to warn people not to help the Mafia, (explicitly, but I imagine the carnies are also behaving in a similar way) by allowing them a way into a band wagon, like they have stated they want.

the fact you appear to want to help the Mafia by doing this, and then getting upset over being warned against it is very dodgy.

"Need a real reason to push for <crackle> again tomorrow if Craster is lynched beacuse we couldn't get it moving last time...I'm pretty sure shes not one of them...Leave the detective for tonight and we'll hope that she is carnie"

Can we have some opinions on who is being referred to here please?

I'm not getting upset, I didn't understand what you meant by helping the mafia. So what, are we unvoting 'til we choose a viable target? I would prefer they were chosen through debate since although we can trust joans and trooper, that doesn't mean they are able to magically point at the baddies. But if people would rather that those two just chose and we followed then I guess I'd need to go with that.

GJ surely. they are saying that they will leave the detective (you) tonight and hit a her instead hoping she is a carnie. GJ got killed last night

That was @ Joans, obv.

Be careful, we can't trust Joans (and by extension Trooper) As it is highly likely Joans was converted last night.

I'm unsure how many women there are left in the town - some of them look like men.

Cut that statement in two?

"Need a real reason to push for <crackle> again tomorrow if Craster is lynched beacuse we couldn't get it moving last time"

and

"I'm pretty sure shes not one of them...Leave the detective for tonight and we'll hope that she is carnie"

The second would be pretty obviously a GJ reference.

The first I still think it is a reference to me, I was pushed for at the start (Day 2?), then the carnie plot yesterday. Maybe it's just because I am more tuned in to conversations and accusations about myself, but it certainly feels like people have been pushing for me, more than anyone else.

Well, yeah, but what about this bit?
"Need a real reason to push for <crackle> again tomorrow if Craster is lynched beacuse we couldn't get it moving last time...I'm pretty sure shes not one of them..."

I just wonder if the she in "I'm pretty sure she's not one of them" refers to someone else. Is it a response to the first part?

My problem with that line of thought is as follows-
Yesterday, I was pretty certain Trooper was a towny due to him being locked in twice and admitting it (and no one else claiming against him), and him being visited by the psychic and admitting it which also happened to me so I know he isn't making that up. There were doubts yesterday about the locking in thing, with people suggesting it was a plot between Craster and Trooper, but then Malc claimed it happened to him today which suggested this verified Troopers story.
So, if I start today assuming Trooper is a towny. If Joans investigated him last night and Joans was recruited, I would think that Joans would either
a) Lie about who investigated and claim a carney was a towny
or
b) Lie about Trooper, claiming he was a baddy to get the lynch, taking the hit the next day in order to allow the numbers to be diminshed and the carneys to recruit again at night, potentially making them unbeatable

if Joans investigated him last night and he wasn't recruited then Joans would tell the truth.
So I don't think Joans was recruited.
Does that make sense?

As Malc can confirm, the lock glue business is true.
As Gilly can confirm, the vision business is true.
As Joans can confirm, I am a townie.

I've been proved to be on the level multiple times by multiple different people, that is a lot of evidence to ignore, unless, of course, you are mafia.

As (I think Joans) said before, the carnies are likely to have assumed that the mafia would have killed Joans. I think Joans is still just a normal townie, unless the carnies have teamed with the the mafia, or a doing a double bluff of some sort.

You mean me? So the mafia ar talking about being pretty sure I'm not a carney and they need to push to lynch me?

Well, that's what I thought at first, but I can't see that anyone's tried to get a lynch moving against you.
I think that only leaves one other "woman", but I've only noticed one person refer to them as such, hence my suspicion.

Apologies - and I know this will trip some peoples 'suspicious' meter but i'm not really going to be around much for the next few hours - looking at my clock we have almost 24 hours until the end of today so i will be back - but cant be here for the next 2 hours or so.

Right now to me Gilly is making sense (Bobby arguing against her looks sus).
I cant see how the Trooper / Joans stuff can be anything other than true so i'm thinking both of them are trustworthy right now.
Riles box stuff just looks weird but I cant see the advantage for either a carnie or mafia to say it so I guess he's trustworthy for the moment.

I dont trust anyone else on the lists - Kovacs and SA were not carnies at some point but could be so now but cannot be the leader.

If the carnies are blocked from recruiting mafia and actually tried to them thats a good result for the town as it would mean there is one less carnie out there - but if I was on the carnie side I would have taken the safe option for either Kovacs or SA last night (or if Malc is the leader and was glued in last night then he presumably could not have recruited yesterday so that would mean one less carnie).

No, I read it as two people talking to each other, so it goes:

Scum 1:Need a real reason to push for <crackle> again tomorrow if Craster is lynched beacuse we couldn't get it moving last time...
Scum 2: I'm pretty sure shes not one of them...
Scum 1: Leave the detective for tonight and we'll hope that she is carnie

So assume the person making the decision is the don (Scum 1) and read it as:

Scum 1:Need a real reason to push for [GJ] again tomorrow if Craster is lynched beacuse we couldn't get it moving last time...
Scum 2: I'm pretty sure shes not one of them...
Scum 1: Leave the detective for tonight and we'll hope that she is carnie

However we don't know the period of time between the statements.

Does that make sense?

When did anyone try to make a push on GJ though?

That makes sense until you look back and see there hasn't ever been a push for GJ either.

I think I see what Joans is hinting at and I'd suggest he looks through pages two and three of day three which would mean he could then confirm or deny if I have the right woman being targetted. If so, that message may have just handed us three mafia.

I'm not sure, but I don't think so. I'm assuming, as has already been stated by several people, that the mafia were trying to get a push on our very own female librarian, Trooper, and that's who the "I'm pretty sure she's not one of them" refers to. It does kind of depend on how the message came to be, which is hugely meta, so I'm not sure what to make of it.

How would the message broadcaster have "heard" the conversation?

Unless (whoever they are, if true) have a hidden thread to themselves?

Yes it was Trooper I was talking about there and on day three he was voted for by Alarm, Bobbyaro and Malc, all by page three. Alarm being last to vote, and undoing it shortly after (perhaps after being PM'd to say not to make it so obvious?)

Although, if this is a snippet of a conversation (perhaps via PM?) between the mafia, then how likely is it they would refer to Trooper as she, and not just save that for the town square? And the unvote was literally two minutes later or something, could a PM be sent and read in that time?

Heh, clearly that was a joke.

I admit it seems unlikely, which is why I said straight after that i don't know there would have been enough time for a potential teammate to message you saying to undo it.

Clutching at straws, much?

Although if I was PM'd and told to rescind my vote, I guess that "proves" that I'm not the head carney or mafia boss.

Well yes, I thought I'd made that clear!


Lol, what? So you are in the mafia or carnies?

No, neither. I am a townie artist.

I've still got plates and prints if anyone would like to buy them.

I know this days lasts quite long but for the record, past about 4pm tonight I doubt I'll be in the square much, except perhaps for 20 minutes tomorrow at lunchtime. I'll be voting based on my gut. Sorry if I am responsible for helping the mafia start a bandwagon as I was accused of earlier or if I am wrong and he is a townie, but I'd hope everyone else would try and make a decision themself.

[vote:Malc]