Be Excellent To Each Other

Well yes, there is no such thing as too clever (or too belming) in a scum game.

Because, exactly, Curio claimed that I had been "doctored" on night 3 and I knew I hadn't, the real doctor also confirmed I hadn't.

Seriously? Look at the outcome of that day and how likely that was.
Curiosity tried to get me lynched. If that happened and I turned out to be mafia then everyone would think that Curio was the doctor, but the mafia wouldn't be able to do anything about the real doctor, even knowing it was Grim... they couldn't kill him without blowing Curio's cover, so they'd just have to hope that he never blocked them and never protected the person they were trying to kill. It would, without doubt, be belmingist plan in MS history and I was at the cottage.

How on earth can I possibly be mafia?

Er, I messed up the quotes on my first post there. Sorry.

And I left out a 'the' in the second one.

People who done seem to be innocent: Jasmine. (Check day 3)

I don't want to vote for someone just because they have the leading vote, we only have until 11am though.

Apart from being defended by Curiosity (who also defended you), what are you referring to?

I think we will have to go with the leading vote because by leaving it, the mafia will get an easy night kill.

I know I'm going to get jumped on for this, but lynching nobody is preferable to lynching the wrong person at the moment.

Pretty much that. I'm just going through whats happened (for pretty much the first time) and poosting observations

People who done be innocent : Joans. I'm quite bemused that theres too much thought otherwise. Curio wouldn't push someone allied wth him like that in day 4. (Well, he would if he was an enormous belm. But putting a fellow mafia as a truth test when you'll be found out soon after when the doctor is killed? I don't buy it. If it does turn out to be the case, well played)

Yes it's difficult to be certain of who is a henchman but it's an easy kill for the mafia on night action.
Do we want to lose another townie?

I was thinking this, but then it gives the mafia a free kill night and we will lose a townie whatever.

Still better to not just take out another townie if we can help it.

*ponders*

If there are 3 mafia left, then we can only get it wrong once, get it wrong again tomorrow and we lose.
Obviously though we can't sit back and let them take us out, and there might only be 2 left.

Dave makes a very good point actually (or the scum have been very tactical this game )

Ok so that could be Joans out.

Why suspect me Dave?

This makes sense, particularly as day 3 was presumably his first day on the job (have we decided that Curio is the mysterious stranger or not), so picking out a few innocent people to associate himself with in the event of getting killed would be a good start to the job.
So, who then?

My impression is that if you've played the game a few times, you're playing in a way that marks you out as guilty as sin. If you haven't then I'm completely wrong. I don't know which is the case. Given that all I've been able to do until now is very, very brief looks at what's going on, that's all I've been able to see until now, and so my best option was to vote for the only person who stood out as trying to appear as a townie.

I'd take a really good look at some past voting about now, but I think food is fairly imminent. Until then [vote:unvote]
I would suggest other people do the same.

That is exactly why I suspected Trooper (Too much Townie) & we know how that turned out

Specifically day 4, with regard to the people left in the game, how soon in the day that they voted, who didn't vote at all and who didn't vote for Curio and their reasons for it.

Voting on Day 5 doesn't really tell us much, I don't think. Trooper was a bit belmy and confused by whose story was strongest, somehow deciding to side with Curio (?!) over Grim... and the masses, this is what ultimately got him killed the next day. But with that in mind, it does make sense that the remaining Mafia would feel confident enough to vote that day, given how Trooper had basically stitched himself up good style, thus making it easier for them to vote for someone they knew to be a townie without arousing suspicion.

So I reiterate: FOS SA and LaceyPants, fo' shizzle.

FWIW on day 4 I had my post inc vote Curio drafted, by the time I posted, the thread was locked. I was playing major catchup, to read it all. Didnt even realise the vote was 1 to go by the time I was ready to click "submit".

[vote: unvote] for now then it seems.

I said repeatedly both on that day and afterwards that I voted for Joans because at that time we had no way of knowing whether Grim or Curio were telling the truth, so lynching either of them risked killing the doctor.

Accusing me because I changed my stance after new information came to light makes no sense.



Why those two?


Also: I am massively dubious of anyone who is still seriously thinking Joans is likely to be mafia.

Oh, and [vote: flis]. This isn't a revenge vote. I'm merely returning to my earlier vote.

Oops. Quoting cock-up, there.

What's the rationale for voting for GJ, incidentally? Is it just the 'quiet one' thing? I might be able to get behind that, but I'm less suspicious of GJ than I am of Flis. Possibly another quiet person, but I don't want to name them right now as I have no good case to back it up.

grak. [vote: unvote].

Getting all confrontational isn't going to help. Flis - please consider that before we took the 50-50 risk of killing the doctor (as we did not know whether Curio or Grim was the doc, and even one of the people the doctor had visited agreed with me), lynching Joans was the lower-risk option that would have exposed at least one mafia person, possibly two.

Once Curio died, however, the situation changed - we knew who the doc was, and therefore that Joans was very unlikely to be in league with Curio, and therefore is probably not mafia. Hence, I changed my stance.

I'd do it again.

Ok that's me done, I'll leave it to you guys to analyse into the evening.
Interested to what Mr Dave thinks about Alarm?

Perhaps, I must say, I find your style in these games is on the aggressive side. Perhaps aggressive is too strong, assertive probably fits better I haven't really paid much attention over the last few days, that is true. I've been too busy entertaining window cleaners and the like, everyone needs a distraction from the horrors inflicted upon us. But now our numbers are dwindling and I fear we are on the cusp of a hostile take-over and of losing our town to the mafia scum forever. I have looked at the most likely suspects based mostly upon the actions, primarily on Day 4 of those left amongst us today.

Joans and Jazzy voted far too early in the day to be aligned with Curio. That day would not have ended until 11am on Tuesday had we not lynched Curio by 2:45pm on Monday....The remaining goons had no incentive at all to vote for him in those early stages, it would have made no sense whatsoever. Moreover, Joans and Curio didn't agree on anything from the second Curio made his always entertaining roleclaim, they voted for each other, they tried to blame each other. This just would not happen in a situation where the case against one of them was so strong it was likely to result in a lynch, as it was with Curio.

GJ would then, seeing how things were progressing, extra specially have no reason to vote for Curio if she was a goon. Why would she, it makes no sense. It was far too early in the day to make any kind of tactical play like that to divert suspicion from the rest of the mafia...They helped get the bandwagon rolling.

Gospvg came so late in the day that him being mafia doesn't add up. His was the hanging vote, he didn't need to do it at that point. Wait for someone else to do it, if it comes to it, cast the vote at 10am the next day. Why would the mafia be in such a rush to hang the Don...?

So that leaves us with;
Mr. Dave...Voting for Gospvg in place of Mr. Russell, basically. Nothing too tactical going on there, on my radar but not enough of a blip to concern me at this point.
Gilly....Didn't vote on Day 4 but going by her general presence around town, she may not have realised the day was progressing at such a pace.
Alarm....Doesn't register as a threat really, was happy to vote Curio on page 2 without any explanation required, other than Curio vaguely making his roleclaim at that point.
LaceSensor....Lack of commitment in any of the votes, accept Trooper, the easy mark and joans on Day 3, another known (to the mafia) innocent and would be bandwagon victim. Prior to the Joans bangwagon starting, he was throwing hooks around with practically everyone's name one, waiting for a bite. As Joans had the only NoVote on the day he was nearly lynched, I have assumed the Mafia did all they could do to make it so, with all of them voting for his demise.

Sinister Agent....'Trooper was pretty much doomed that day anyway'....Was he? The hanging vote didn't come until a couple of hours before the deadline. He made it a lot longer than Curio did. And let's look at how that vote was split amongst those left, shall we? 4 of us didn't vote, it was a long enough day that lasted 'overnight', so plenty of time to check in. Mr. Dave voted for Gos in a typically Mr. Dave way Joans voted for Trooper but he had gone head to head in the Curio/Trooper vs. Grim... Joans battle of Honour the day before. Trooper was unlucky and stumbled his way into the noose. 3 of you that voted for Trooper on Day 5 had neglected to vote for Curiosity on Day 4. Coincidence? That leaves Gos....Whose saving grace (as above, to my mind) was the timing of his vote for Curio on Day 4.



God only knows why Gos is still thinking of Joans but that doesn't really fit with the mafia thing either, as his fellow Goon/Don would be telling him to stop flogging that horse as no-one is buying it and he's making himself a target for a lynch by continuing to belm so much.

PS I suspect there is only the Don and 1 Goon left.

Meh. I don't really care if you vote for me tbh, I'm above revenge voting at this stage and wouldn't do it for any reason other than the lolz. I actually do think you're Mafia.

Obv. I was writing my epic reply while you posted this, I will consider it but I will leave my vote as is, because it is 50:50 between you and Lace for me. And can't be bothered typing the vote thing again.

The problem we have is that we need to lynch someone in order to win, but if we lynch a townie, we have one fewer day to lynch the don/mob.

The mafia have the upper hand.

[vote:gospvg]
When Grim... took his vote away from Curiosity it was to see if anyone would follow suit. Which you did.
Then you did the now mandatory, "I'm not a mafia, honest" final vote on a near dead-man.

Well, fwiw I voted for Bobby on day 3, and looking at the numbers, it does seem likely that the mafia went for Joans that day.

Turning on your own often makes sense for the mafia - distancing yourselves, like.

gah, sorry, interrupted. Completely lost my train of thought.

[meta-ish - sorry if I came across as unpleasant, I know it's meant to be fun and I should stop taking things so seriously]

Anyway, I obv. disagree with my part in your assessment, but expecting you to believe me any more than anyone else is a bit silly of me. And I only really voted for you to see what happened, as the same names have been coming up a lot until today and I wanted to see what the situation was with the ones who haven't been named much.

I will give it a few more hours tonight and then probably vote for whoever I think is likely to swing (unless it's Joans), as I am busy tomorrow morning and a no-lynch is the worst outcome we could get today.

Jazzy voted for you when almost enough other people did to hang you. The day after that, she voted for Curio (double bad guy, remember...?).

Urgh. FML.

I will [Vote:LaceSensor] based on the fact I'm now 55:45 between him and SA.

Please vote with me people, I don't reckon GJ or Joans are anything more than townies and I'm quite comfortable with Bobby, too. Gilly put your gut related suspicions aside and consider the events surrounding Day 4 and since. Gos, prove you are more than a belming suspect, Joans isn't worth your vote. No-one is going to vote to hang him.....use it more wisely than that, we still have (assuming you really think Joans is a bad guy) up to 2 more baddies to find, who else arouses your suspicions? Where could you best put that vote to use? Whaddaya say, SA....?

Come on people, Lace is more worthy of this noose than anyone else left in this town at the moment. Look at the conclusions I have drawn, it is practically a dead cert.

I think you will find that at least one of the remaining mafia voted for me one day, then Curio the next.
Anyway, I'm more interested in what you think about my latest vote, rather than the one I made nearly 7 hours ago?

Curiosity was a dead man after he made his claim, if I'd gone instead of him, he'd have been lynched in seconds the following day and we'd have learned nothing from it. Gos putting in the last vote reeks of a mafia killing one of his own to remove suspicion. They'd got the numbers to kill off one of their own, and it wasn't that much of a risk because Curiosity was on borrowed time anyway.

Really? I honestly think if there were other baddies still in the game, you may have a point about him being someone evil but given how the voting went that day, the goons and Don would have been in *constant* contact with each other, they wouldn't allow him to make that kind of error of judgement, surely? Especially with Curio at the helm. They didn't need make the final vote at that stage, it was too early for a member of the mafia to cast the hanging vote.

Dude, seriously, it's Lace. Look at him. Look at the votes, read what he says. He has only ever voted for townies and only ever when it has been safe to do so. i.e. when there's a bandwagon already rolling.

He needs to die. Fuck me, I'll probably dead tonight for sussing them out, scummy cunts.

If you read back over the days, the arguments you make against Lace could easily be made against you.

But it's still better for them to get a townie lynched, even if he was to die the next day?

I see what you're saying, I do and I agree that it can be the case that the mafia throw maybe one vote in to cover the scent of their scumminess and it does happen but the timing of it doesn't sit right with me at all. His vote (before he rescinded it) was the 7th of 8 required. The mafia didn't need to do that, they then doubly didn't need to rescind the vote. I just don't think it would happen like that, on that particular day, with that situation and with the constant talking between Curio and the goons that must have been going on. Add the fact he's still banging on about you being mafia, if I was on his team I'd be telling him to stop getting the wrong kind of attention.

I don't know, I just think my case for LS is better But vote Gos by all means. I do think we need to hang someone today and we're running out of time.

You're case for LS is that he's being LS, it's not much of a case (not to say it's wrong).
I think people are looking at this wrong, Curio's plan wasn't to get me lynched, he'd been blocked by the doctor and his plan was to find out who that was. Sacrificing himself was well worth it, especially if there's 3 mafia still out there, so getting in on the "I voted for the Don, so I'm a townie" bandwagon was a necessity for at least one goon. Who it was though, I dunno?

Not really, stop clinging on to the bad feelings you have for the people who voted for you It was like, 3 days ago, jeez. Get over yourself.

I voted for Curio on Day 4 and didn't vote for Trooper on Day 5. The fact he did the opposite says to me that he is a bad man and I am not. Well, I can be bad as you want me to be, as it says in the phone box on the corner but I'm not a murdering mafia scumbag.

He voted for me too you know.
The problem with pleading to lynch someone is that people are going to think you know something, and anyone that knows anything at this stage of the game is a bad person.

That was part of my original point, he only ever voted for townies and only ever after a bandwagon started rolling.

He screams mafia at me.

People are voting for complete randoms though, like you and Bobby. Why? How do they hope to get others on board with it? It just seems like a waste of time....If I can convince enough people for a lynch of a goon/Don then great but the way it's going at the moment, no-one is bloody dying except a townie as soon as the sun goes down.

This is a very good analysis. The curio vs. grim thing was curio trying to root out the doctor so we'd lynch him. There was every reason for the mafia to pile onto Curio if it looked like he was going down, and voting against the crowd would be suicidal after Curio gathered a few votes - just look at how much flak has come my way for voting for Joans instead, even though it was a perfectly rational and safe plan in the circumstances.

I don't think you can really conclude that someone's evil just because they don't vote the same way as you. Apart from curio, everyone has voted to lynch innocent people.

To pick an example, you voted for Russ, nikachu (both innocent) and Joans (almost certainly innocent). You've, coincidentally, discussed how unlikely it is that the mafia would have voted on those 1-short days, even though they had no reason not to put a killing vote in with a cop, SK, and then Doc still in play.

You were also the penultimate voter for Curio. Putting the last votes in on a mafioso on the block is a common mafia tactic, yet you've been quite strongly suggesting that Gos' voting late on Curio makes him less suspicious. I wonder why that is?

E.g:



Why don't you tell us? You voted for Joans just earlier until I called you on it. Then you backed off for a bit, and came back to try to get a rush started on me for reasons I'd already proven groundless yesterday. And now you're emphasizing how Gos, who shared your vote (and has attracted quite a lot of honourable mentions in the last few days, I have to say), must just be an innocent townie and tht voting for Joans proves that?

And now the palling up with Joans, and trying to implicate me and one person at once, then asking for my input - bit of a stitch up there, no? Hoping I'd get scared and vote for a townie, so you could push for me the next day?

No, this is all setting off too many alarms for me now. I'm going back to [vote: flis] after all.

The only short day I mentioned in relation to mafia voting was the day Curio was lynched. That still doesn't make enough sense to me for me to lynch someone based on them voting for the bad guy, in that specific situation.

Voting for someone because of how they have voted is a better way to do it than 'because I feel like it'. It's how Joans arrived at voting for Gos and GJ in the space of a few hours today and many people have been lynched based on voting patterns before. Why is it wrong now?

I don't think we're even going to get a lynch before this day is done. I have absolutely nothing against Joans so I don't know why he keeps getting brought up....I want to lynch Lace or I wouldn't have voted for him, so why would I not try to convince others of the same?

The whole curio vs grim day I think we were all confused who was who thus if you look at my voting pattern on that day it changed quite a few times.

Mr Dave must of had a big lunch
I like to see him continue assessing people.

Voting on someone like Lace, SA, Bobby or anyone else is silly.

Because the last thing we want to do is kill another townie.

Missed line.

Because you have a hunch or the voting pattern. Which for most people would have been I'm online now so I'll vote.

Really need to stop using this iPod & get out of bed & turn the PC on instead !!

I think flis is a townie. Reasons for Joans and GJ being townies are good. Unsure of Mr Dave and Alarm. Going to [vote:gospvg] though. Cancelling his vote for curio as soon as Grim gave that choice is suss and suggests he was last to vote because he didn't think it was going ahead and then panicked when it did.
I would like to hear more from Alarm as well though.
I will also probably vote for Mr Dave tomorrow if nothing else comes up.
I'm away to work now, won't be back in town until this evening.

Gilly, your vote is invalid. You have an erroneous colon.


Note from DavPaz - No worries, I fixed it.

I cancelled my vote not because of Grim but Trooper

'Because there is still a possibility that Grim is the doc, going for Joans proves that either way and doesn't lose us the doc in the process.'

You also need to make your vote again you have a extra :

Alarm has been too quiet in this game.

I wouldn't say that I've been "too quiet" - I've spoken more than some inhabitants. Joans makes a good case of why you are suspicious, and I've had my own suspicions about you for several days now.

Our problem at the moment is that if there are 3 goons, we need 6 out of 7 townies to agree. I'd be very suspicious of anyone trying to steer the vote away from someone and who they're trying to steer it away from.
The other problem is that we have less than 3 hours to go.

Yeah, unexpectedly ended up going out for a chinese.