Be Excellent To Each Other

So, this is my idea for an upcoming game. A trifle complex, but I think I have most eventualities covered?
Questions, comments?


Super Scum : The Sequel (Richard Donner Director's Cut Extended Edition Fan Edit Version 7)

A sunny day at Metropolis prison, all is well in the world…
Superman and his two good buddies, Batman and Robin have taken the opportunity to have a picnic in the grounds.

<BOOM>

What's that noise?

<BOOM>

Yes, that noise

It appears that Lex Luthor and his cronies have turned up, and they are attacking the prison, too many members of their volleyball club have been locked up and if they don't get some out, they will have to forfeit their next match! No way they are going to lose to the Smallville Middle School under 12's… again…

But all is not as it seems, the attack is a distraction, Lex flicks a switch on his robot suit and a mysterious dome covers the immediate vicinity, a dome made of kryptonite. Everyone is trapped!
(Oh, and when Lex flicked the switch a kryptonite infused length of rope fell out of his pocket, no one notices, maybe that will come in useful in future? Nah...)

Seems as if Lex made a few miscalculations on the dome makeup, not only has it trapped everyone, but it has also had the side effect of removing specific parts of specific peoples memories, and has also taken away their ability to recognise some people.
How strange.

Only one way to settle this…


Good Guys

Superman(1)

Man of steel, Chief boy scout, moralistic uber-nerd! As protector of the planet you want nothing more than to see all bad guys put away, nothing more that is, than seeing Lex Luthor behind bars!
Mild mannered reporter, if you are investigated you will look like an innocent bystander, but you do have some vulnerabilities…
Green kryptonite will kill you.
Red kryptonite will change your class to human, however to all outward appearances you will still look super, darling! On the plus side, you won't be affected by kryptonite anymore...
Black kryptonite will turn you into Evil Superman!
Good job nobody has any kryptonite, huh?

Class : Super

Primary win condition : Bad guys all in jail
Secondary win condition : Lex Luthor in jail

Super Actions
Arrest : will put somebody in custody of the jailor, the person knows they were arrested, the town knows they were arrested.
Protect : protect someone from harm, the person knows they were protected by Superman, but they do not know Superman’s identity.

Human actions
Arrest : will put a human in custody of the jailor, will die if tries to arrest super opponent, the person knows they were arrested, the town knows they were arrested.
Protect : protect someone from harm, will die if protecting against super opponent but protected will escape. The person knows they were protected by Superman, but they do not know Superman’s identity.

Comms:
Talks to no-one



Batman(1)

"I'm Batman" Yes yes, we know, Dark Knight, blah blah blah. Get over yourself dude, your parents died a long time ago.
The greater half of the dynamic duo, mainly uses Robin as his lackey to jump out the Batmobile and do stuff, but sometimes puts himself out there when necessary. Batman has fallen on hard times, and petrol prices being what they are, he and Robin can only afford one trip out in the Batmobile each night.

Class : Human

Primary win condition : Bad guys all in jail
Secondary win condition : Bad guys all dead

Actions
Investigate : will find out the primary win condition of whomever they investigate, the person does not know they were investigated.
Arrest : will put somebody in custody of the jailor, the person knows they were arrested, the town knows they were arrested.
Protect : protect someone from harm, the person knows they were protected by Batman, but they do not know Batman’s identity.
Use green kryptonite : kills superman/evil superman, does nothing to anyone else and will not be detected.
Use red kryptonite : removes superman/evil superman's powers, does nothing to anyone else, red kryptonite is unstable and can only be used twice. Batman will not know if the red kryptonite was successful.
Kill : kill

If Batman dies, Robin takes his place, and becomes Batman.

Comms:
Can talk to Robin


Robin(1)

The Boy Wonder! Looks simply spiffing in tights and has a punch that can KERPOW!!! you off your feet.
Does whatever Batman tells him…

Class : Human

Primary win condition : Bad guys all in jail
Secondary win condition : Becomes Batman

Actions:
Investigate : will find out the primary win condition of whomever they investigate, the person does not know they were investigated.
Arrest : will put a human or superman in custody of the jailor, will die if tries to arrest evil super opponent, the person knows they were arrested, the town knows they were arrested.
Protect : protect someone from harm, will die if protecting against super opponent but protected will escape. The person knows they were protected by Robin, but they do not know Robin’s identity.

Comms:
Can talk to Batman



Jailor(1)

Larry Larson, grizzled old-timer who keeps himself to himself, looks very surprisingly like Stan Lee…

Class : Human

All arrested characters lose the ability to use any actions, unless the jailor dies, then they are all free and back up and running. They can still talk in the game thread.
All arrested characters can talk to each other, but cannot talk to their original groups. If the jailor dies, then they go back to their original communication groups.
Cannot be arrested.

Primary win condition : All bad guys in jail
Secondary win condition : all bad guys dead

Comms:
Talks to no-one.


Policeman(1)

A thug with a hat.

Class : Human

Primary win condition : All bad guys in jail
Secondary win condition : all bad guys dead

Action:
Arrest : will put a human or superman in custody of the jailor, will die if tries to arrest evil super opponent, the person knows they were arrested, the town knows they were arrested.

Comms:
Talks to no-one


Innocent Bystanders(0-?)

“Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Why are your underpants on the outside?” These guys and gals are just full of questions.

Class : Human

Primary win condition : All bad guys dead or in jail




Bad Guys

Lex Luthor(1)

Hates Superman with a passion, foiled at every turn even though he is a criminal mastermind. I’m assuming his personal issues are down to premature baldness.

Class : Human

Primary win condition : Kill superman
Secondary win condition : All good guys dead

Actions
Use green kryptonite : kills superman/evil superman, does nothing to anyone else and will not be detected.
Use red kryptonite : removes superman/evil superman's powers, does nothing to anyone else, red kryptonite is unstable and can only be used twice. Lex will not know if the red kryptonite was successful.
Use black kryptonite : turns superman into evil superman, does nothing to anyone else, black kryptonite is extremely unstable and can only be used once.
Kill : kills a human character, roleblocks super characters

Comms:
Talks to Evil Superman


Evil superman(0-1)

AKA Cool Superman. What everyone would be like if they actually had Super powers.
Sure he talks to Lex, but just wants to destroy, so Lex better watch his back!

Class : Super

Primary win condition : All good guys dead
Secondary win condition : EVERYONE DEAD!

Green kryptonite will kill you.
Red kryptonite will change your class to human, however to all outward appearances you will still look grrrr… super evil! On the plus side, you won't be affected by kryptonite anymore...

Super Actions
Kill : kill

Human Actions
Kill : kills a human character, roleblocks super characters

Comms:
Talks to Lex Luthor


The Joker(1)

Always a smile on his pretty little face, but under the surface an anarchist who just wants to watch the world burn, and not in a good way.

Class : Human

Win condition : Everyone dead

Actions:
Investigate : will find out the primary win condition of whomever they investigate, the person does not know they were investigated.
Kill : kills a human character, roleblocks super characters

Comms:
Talk to no-one

Braniac(1)

The brain interactive construct. Super computer from outer space. Could use a reboot if truth be told, obviously not running on OSX…

Class : Super

Primary win condition : Kill superman
Secondary win condition : All good guys dead

Actions
Investigate : will find out the primary win condition of whomever they investigate, the person does not know they were investigated.
Kill : kill

Comms:
Talks to no-one

Henchmen(0-?)

Thugs without hats.

Class : Human

Win condition : all good guys dead

Comms:
Can talk to other henchmen


Action Order
Roleblocks - Protecting - Investigating - Arresting - Kryptonite - Kill

The game will end if all bad guys are either dead, or in jail.


Edited to remove additional policemen

Initial thought - that's a whole lot of arrest abilities, and a whole lot of kill abilities. I suspect you'll halve the player list by day 2.

Sounds good. I'll let other pick over the intricacies and balancing.

IN!

I've just read supermans description, but aren't his win conditions the wrong way round? Also, when does he perform his super action versus his human action? FAKE EDIT-Oh, if he gets turned into a human with kryptonite?
ALso Also, If he gives someone to the jailer, is the victims id revealed or simply the fact they have been jailed?

Throughts on Batman-presumably he can only perform one of his actions each night and has to choose which one? Is he punished if he kills to many innocents to prevent him just hitting at random? Why would he use kryptonite on Superman, unless he knew superman was bad(which I presume he wouldn't?) Supermans role says investiagtion doesnt reveal his ID so how would batman know he was superman never mind know he ws evil(is this a deliberate part of the makeup of the game or just something so far unthought of?)

Arressted people can communicate with each other, but do they retain their primary win condition? So the purpose of them being able to convers is either only beneficial if it is only those within their own faction also in jail, or so as they can giggle about the game without revealing their role?

An awful lot of kill and jail roles as Craster said...maybe limit the jailing to only the jailer and/or the policemen?

Lex can't investigate, so is the purpose of the black kryptonite just a random hit?
I'd also limit the number of henchmen, or tie their actions to a baddy power role or something. Typically the good guys do a good enough job of taking themselves out.

None of these are criticisms by the way, just making sure I'm clear about things. I'm sure we'll have a great game Thanks for taking the time to write these up.

I'm not too worried about halving the player base, as the arrested characters are still in the game, can now talk to each other privately and talk in the game thread, they just lose their night actions. Plus their identities are not revealed due to an arrest, and if the Jailor is killed they are back in the game.

The arrest abilities are high, to counter the high kill abilities of the baddies. The baddies generally don't communicate, so the high kill gives them a chance to win I think?

Maybe I should drop the arrest to only the police? Hmm...

You may be right on Supermans win condition order, I wanted to play lex and him off each other, but that doesn't really fit in with the whole superman ideal.

No id reveal on jail.

Batman and Robin can only perform one action per night between them.
No punishment for killing too many innocents, I assumed as he is a good guy then the roleplaying would stop people just killing every night, but maybe I should enforce that.
He wouldn't know superman was bad, until superman killed someone after being turned evil, so he would know that evil supe is out there and would want to use the kryptonite then. (plus it fits in with the mythology of Batman have access to kryptonite...)

The likelihood of Superman being turned bad is relatively small, yet it is a major shift in power in the game. I wanted to give the good guys a chance at neutralising that shift, as small as that chance is, other than just a lynch.

They are in jail together, it's one big jail cell. They can talk about whatever they like, be it to everyone in jail, or secret conversations with their buddies, but they all retain their primary win conditions. They may get released at some point after all...
Plus they can still shout through the bars to the rest of the players.

Random hit pretty much, it's a total game changer.
Lex being able to investigate as well would be too powerful I think. Don't forget, if Lex and either The Joker or Braniac get put in jail, then they can talk to each other, assuming they know who to talk to...

Number of henchmen will be down to how many people want to play, it may be zero henchmen, but I hear yah

And yeah, getting clear is good, it's a bloody complicated game!

It's worth bearing in mind that the primary method of the good guys to win should really always be lynching. If you end up with teams with balanced night actions, then vanilla players with no power role are effectively worthless, and daytime discussion will suffer as people decide to just leave it up to the night actions. Balancing good guy night actions with appropriate weaknesses is another way to achieve this - have someone who can investigate and someone who can arrest, but don't let them communicate, for example.

Curio's game was immense fun, but it wasn't really a game of Mafia.

Good point, I wouldn't class this as anyway close to being a proper mafia game.

Cool. I really like this idea, I just wanted to clarify. It could be quite interesting if the jailed players keep communicating unaware that someone on the other side is in their midst.



D'oh, I was forgetting Lex can communicate with players who can investigate. Stupid Gilly.

Looking forward to it...when can we play!

Not that stupid, he can only communicate with investigators if they are in jail together and he knows who they are.

This would be my first mafia game that i've run (and only my 3rd ever!) so I have no idea what is involved in running it, but soon I should think

Superman's win condition precludes all bad guys dead. that means that if Lex is dead, he doesn't get primary, and if batman kills on the last night, superman doesn't get secondary, despite surviving to the end? realise that there is little chance of that sort of thing occurring, but...

If I swapped supermans primary and secondary, would that solve it?

No, he could still survive to the end and not win. Which is okay, if that is what you want, but I was just highlighting it.

Ah, I get what you are saying. As you say, unlikely to happen and I think that would a fitting end to the difference between Batman and Superman in their attitude to crimebusting! Superman could always choose to protect the last player, if he thought Batman was going to kill him... With great power comes great responsibility and all that

Right - there's now a jail forum, and a prisoners group.

Prisoners can see the jail forum but not the main game threads, normal players can see the main game forum but not the jail threads. That what you wanted?

Trooper should also now have rights over the MS forums.

Almost.

Main game players shouldn't be able to see the jail thread, but jailed players should be able to see and participate in the main thread still, they just don't have any night actions

From the initial discussion i've flipped Superman's primary and secondary win condition, everything else has stayed the same.

(see first post for current ruleset)

Just merged all the discussion from the upcoming games thread into here, fire away any and all questions...

Look at you, getting your mod on!

THE POWER, THE POWER!

One point of clarification about the jail. The usual rules abide for allowed comms for everyone to start with (no metadata, can only privately communicate with their defined counterparts etc...) however once someone gets jailed things change significantly.

A jailed person will have access to the jail thread and will be able to publicly communicate with everyone in jail via that thread.
Normal non-jailed players cannot see the jail thread
A jailed person can choose to privately communicate with whoever they want who is also in jail.
A jailed person can still communicate in the main thread.
A jailed person can still vote.
A jailed person has no night actions.
Roles are not revealed when arrested.
Jailed players still keep their win conditions.
If the Jailor is killed, all jailed players are released and go back to their original ruleset.

As always, I'll barely glance at the rules before actually starting to play, but do the normals know when someone is jailed*? Can a jailed person still be targeted at night?
I'll also re-iterate that having good guys with night actions that can also talk to each other is eye-wateringly powerful.

*Ah, I see Batman does the actual arresting.

In which thread would a jailed person vote?

The normal one, if you want to use the vote counter.

Although I do like the idea of a separate, hidden vote.

Might have been answered already ( I might even have asked it already but can't be bothered checking ) but can jailed people still communicate with people they could previously communicate with before beuing put in jail, if the rest of their group aren't in jail?

Yes.



No



Thinking about it, having the policemen being able to talk privately might be a step too far, talking openly should be enough, and I might limit the role to only one.



Batman/Robin can choose to arrest, so can superman, so can a policeman.

Me too, just not in a game that I have to run

No, jailed people can only privately communicate with other prisoners.

Edited the ruleset to drop the amount of policemen down to one, as multiples who could talk to each other was just too powerful I think.

I have a question. Currently Brainiac can kill Superman in a night action, it feels necessary for the game, but doesn't really fit in with the mythos, we happy with that?

Oh, and i'll modify the rules so that the jailor can't get arrested, as that seems ludicrous and would break the game.

Forgot to mention, a jailed person can still be lynched.

Just to say, I can see the Jail thread but I don't think I should be able to.

You shouldn't indeed! I assume this is a by product of the game not starting yet so the final player list isn't up for the mods to do their permission magic, but if not, Craster, can you fix please?

For clarification:
Free people should be able to see the main thread only.
Jailed people should be able to see the jailed thread and main thread.

Gimme the list and I'll sort it.

sent via pm.

Will anyone be starting in jail?

nope, everyone is swinging free to start with

I ARE QUESTIONS:


a) Are jailed characters protected if someone tries to off them? Your other answers sugest yes, but I'd like to be certain, for I am a fool.

b) Again, stupid question, but to be sure: if the jailor dies, does this mean that arresty powers effectively become worthless?

c) What happens if someone tries to arrest the jailor?

d) If superman is behumaned, is his attacker told the outcome?

e) As for roleblocks and protections - is the target informed who targeted them? If you're protecting someone, are you told if a third person attacks your ward?


Cheers! This sounds really fun, particularly the secret forum bit.

A. Jailed characters are immune from night actions, but they can still be lynched during the day
B. A dead jailor means no more jail, arrest night actions are worthless and jailed players are back in the game proper.
C. They will know they have tried to arrest the jailor and the arrest failed.
D. Red kryptonite has no outward affects on anyone, the attacker will not know the outcome.
E. Yes. Yes.

BTW someone might want to move the old dead thread out and into the old games section

Yay! Cheers for that. Sorry to be a pain, but one more thing - who counts as "super"? As in, some of those powers don't work on super powered characters, but who counts as that? Is the joker a super person? What about Lex Luthor? A list would be handy.

Superman and Brainiac are the only two super characters.

Done, cheers.

Done