Be Excellent To Each Other

[vote:flis]

If you're who you are obviously claiming to be, you wouldn't claim - you'd tell Obi Wan and/or Luke to stick up for you instead, as that's lower risk, plus you can inherit Obi's powers if he does get caught out.

It is clear that the killing roles are neutered at the moment, so the only way to tip the balance is to vote for a lynch.

I'm still well up for Grim... to swing, although flis and Gazchap are making my suspision meter spike loads right now. I think they all have power roles, and power roles in the empire.

We need one of them to swing, and Grim.. looks best for it given the past three days, flis second, and then Gazchap, so if the rebels were to pull some votes together, it could be sown up in the next few days.

To resolve this situation, we need to lynch.

First paragraph and last paragraph, Mali?

Also - what the dick did I do over the last three days?

Erm, in short:

Lynch people, preferably Grimm

AND

You look funny, like.

Also, someone farted

Oh, I thought you were saying "only bad people are voting".

I still want to know what I did over the last three days.

Alzheimers is a terrible affliction.

That is the "my young sibling went on my computer and posted crap" of the '10s.

Who am I claiming to be? The Jedi can all talk to each other, yes? I could be any one of them and still have access to all the information I need to say that events over the last few nights lead us to strongly believe that Grim... is Vader and that Maul is in the game. We also know who Han is and we have eliminated suspicions of a couple of others.

Why would I not claim? Me being alive, even one more night, is better for the rebels than if I allowed myself to get lynched today.

Interesting. Any Jedi want to counterclaim?

If you are a Jedi, and you strongly believe that I'm Vader, then you're Doing It Wrong.

You've also contradicted what you said here, so my vote's staying.

Either you're not a Jedi, which likely makes you a bad'un, or you've been incredibly silly.

I can't be alone in thinking that's probably not such a bright idea.

Thinking more, the only way the Jedi can figure out who is who is to have Yoda ask questions - so how can you 'strongly suspect' that I'm anything?

I've only just realised that the Head Sith guys can't communicate in this game - that's not right, surely?

I know it looks that way, I didn't mean to directly accuse you of being Vader at that point, I did some deleting etc. and going backwards and forwards between what I was saying within one reply on my phone and that full stop wasn't intentional.

We have decided at this stage that my claiming, in the face of how incredibly silly I've been is the best thing at this time.

If you are not Vader, you better come up with a good reason for how the hell you're not dead yet, old boy.

I'm still convinced you're lying.
You've had three night phases, but you claim to know who two people are and that a third is in the game. Unless I've missed something, you simply haven't had the time to figure that out.
Why should I be dead?

Ah yeah, should possibly have specified that. My bad. Obviously enough any Sith can talk amongst themselves.

Ok, stop me if this doesn't make sense.

If Grim... is sith, then Luke can try and kill him tonight (although if there's a maul, he could protect him, but then we could off Grim... tomorrow).

If Flis isn't a jedi, then Luke might want to consider killing her tonight.

So, what do we do now?

He knew that, good attempt at deflection there Grim...! You've been very on the ball with all the other rules and roles, how did that escape your attention until now?

I am puzzled as to how you are alive despite multiple attempts on your life, explain how you'd manage that unless you were Vader?

Well, you've said you'll be protected, so you can't be Obi Wan. Luke is the killing role, so having him roleclaim before getting a kill in (he can do one blind if necessary, as it takes two innocent dead before he quits) would render him useless as even if you could protect him, he'd be roleblocked from then on.

Also how do you know who Han is? The only way is if you tried to kill him, or you asked specifically "is [x] han?", which sounds like a terrible question.

So you're either Yoda, making a big mistake, or lying. 2/3 chance that you're a villain or a liability. Given how suspiciously vague this roleclaim has been, and how foolish (if you know Grim... is Vader, why not just kill him yourselves tonight? The Sith can't protect two people, and why would they choose to protect Vader over Palpatine? And we still don't know that they can protect anyone. Outing him here means you die for no reason, and we have to waste a lynch on him), my vote stays.

[vote:unvote]

[vote:flis]

In my mind, you have hung yourself.

Still suspicious of Grim... but more of you.

If Flis is sith, rather than an incompetent jedi, why not let Luke kill her tonight?

Roleblockers are working well at the moment, or people ae not killing. So a lynch is to my mind the best way to do this.

If they have a Maul, they'll protect her. Ackbar might decide to protect her/roleblock Luke.

I feel better voting for someone I'm confident is bad than leaving them and hoping that (a) we'll get two in a day and (b) the Jedi aren't a bit crap.

Plus, if Flis is Darth Vader, she'd just use her special father-o-tron power and take him out of the game for a couple of days.

If she's still alive in the morning, then I agree, that a lynch is a good idea.

At the moment, we seem to have Flis vs Grim...

If Flis is telling the truth, then let Luke kill Grim... tonight. If Maul is in the game and protects him, then we can lynch him tomorrow.
If Flis is lying and she's not a jedi, then Luke should kill her, again, if Maul protects her, lynch tomorrow.

Jesus, you must be either a Sith Lord or have a pretty big vested interest in Vader not dying.

We know who Han is, how we know was down to more luck than judgement.

I'm not lying, we can't kill Grim... because you are Maul is protecting him. With at least one Stormtrooper in the game, why would Maul protect Palpatine...? And we've been through that already. So given you admit there might be a 1/3 chance of me being a Jedi, why would you still vote for me? Unless you were of course, a baddie yourself?

We were wondering which direction to go with our questions for tonight, given that no-one had really given much away so far but now we have plenty of food for thought.

If they have a Maul and protect her, that kind of gives it away. If Ackbar protects her then he's a moron as he's supposed to be on the rebels side. It's possible he could roleblock Luke though which might screw things up a bit.

If Flis is Vader, then she has to say that during the day phase, so again, we can lynch her tomorrow.

All this applies to Grim... as well really, I'm not trying to save Flis as I've no idea if she's bad or good, but this seems the best way to prove her innocence/guilt without accidentally killing a jedi or having to get one of them to back up her story.

Who is Han?

Lynching flis is appealing to me as extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

MaliA!!

At least for Grim... to come back and explain how someone would survive multiple attempts on their life?

There surely aren't more Sith win conditions in this game than Rebel ones? Everyone who is voting for me, in light of me saying I'm Jedi and Grim... is fucking Vader, must be a bad guy. If you lynch me, you lose 1 Jedi, right now before I can carry out any night actions, which would be bad.

Joans, if Grim... and I both survive until morning, wtf happens then!?

There are 3 ways to get your evidence:

1. Lynch Flis
2. A Jedi pops up and says that Flis is or isn't jedi (but are they really jedi, who will back them up, etc)
3. Let the jedi do their thing tonight

I have of course realised the slightly fatal flaw in my plan at this point, if Maul does exist and protects Flis/Grim (assuming one of them actually is sith), then with them both alive, we won't actually know which one the jedi tried to kill and will be back in the same boat we're in now.

On that note, I'm going to curl up in that corner of the cave over there. Night.

Desperation now. If I'm Maul, why didn't you say so earlier? Maul is our priority target if he exists, because he can protect anyone we want to off.



Because 1/3 is less likely than 2/3, which are the odds that you're a villain. And even that doesn't include all of the above, and the fact that your story is not adding up at all. I extra vote for you now.

True, but we won't know for certain whether it was a roleblock.




Moronic behaviour is not unusual in these caves, as any gun nut will tell you.




True, but if I were Vader, I would take great joy in waiting for some poor sap to go up to 10 votes, then voting for them and neutralising Luke in the same post. That would kill a rebel plus whoever else the empire decided to bump off over the next few nights.

And above all, flis' claims are illogical, inconsistent, and extremely suspicious.

I only suspect you of being Maul because you're sticking up for Vader....I agree, Maul and the STs are our priority, we're quite happy to let Jabba rack up the slaves for now as while they're there, they're safe from the Sith. The only way we can kill Vader with Maul in the game is by lynching, we haven't had enough time to finalise details of everyones identity....

How does my story not add up....?

Lynching her is clearly the best idea.
She claims that she is Jedi, and to know who Han is, yet there isn't a shred of anything to back this wild claim up.

If she dies and she is a Jedi, and did know who people are, then death is like that sometimes. As it stands, I honk her two friends, if they exist, are waiting to try and swing a vote for someone else if the popular opinion means she's looking dodgy.

If she were to name anyone, it'd probably be Han, as then he'd be protected after the kill attempt in the night phase, as he has a get out if jail card, and, if he confirmed it, along with the knowing three, then his buddies and the Jedi could cover tje votes for any potentail lynch.

How?

Grim... is Vader, he won't die because Maul is in the game. We need Vader out of the game by lynching.

I've been pretty consistent there, I think.

As I read the ruled, Sinister is right. There's no way the Jedi can know who Han is.

Flis: explain or you swing.

Which would be fine if he had the MF to fall back on.....he does not.

Again, explain.

1) How can you know who Han is? The only two ways are if Luke tried to kill him (which would be a stupid waste of both Luke's safe kill and Han's ability), or if Yoda asked "Is [x] Han?", which would be a stupid waste of a question when you could just ask "Is [x] a villain?"

2) How can you know Maul is in the game? The only way is if Yoda has asked "is [x] Maul?", which is an even more stupid waste of a question for a character that might not even be in the game. And even if that's what happened, the odds of you getting both characters right away? And if you did that, why ask about han and maul? C3P0, Vader, Palpatine and Bobba would all be more sensible.

3) How do you know Grim... is Vader? Again, why ask "is he vader?"?

4) You still haven't told us what you actually know or how.

5) You're still not giving us a strategy. A Jedi roleclaiming and not doing anything to help us is pointless.

6) You can't be Obi Wan because you said you have protection. If you're Luke, you're being a fool by exposing yourself without getting Jabba or at least one kill in first. If you're Yoda, you're throwing away our best weapon (without which Luke is next to useless) to get what you have just admitted is not a priority target. Ergo you're either lying or of no use to us.

7) If you think I'm so suspicious, kill me tonight - you claim you can't kill Grim..., so you might as well. If I'm wrong and you are a Jedi, I'm obviously a liability and you're better off without me.

You still haven't actually roleclaimed.

been quiet, not ot much time now, a 2 year old in tears, however, I think flis needs to tell us who han is, then at least 2 people will know if she's telling the truth or not, they may even confirm or deny it, or the real han might counter claim.


Malc

Roleclaiming as Jedi is enough, I thought. I didn't want to be specific.

Night 1:
If you hunt 'x' and they don't die, you assume they are either Han, an Ackbar RB or Vader, we also get a question about 'a' and 'b' turn up nothing. There's little point perusing 'x' at that point as assuming Maul is in the game, you cannot kill Vader anyway so it doesn't really matter. We just want to narrow the field down to 'likely to be bad' and 'likely to be good'.

Night 2:
We then hunt 'y' and they don't die either, we assume for the same reasons as before, even though the Ackbar RB seems an unlikely coincidence. Watching the day develop, we become more suspicious of 'y' so decide to hunt them, and ask a question about 'x' and 'z' as our desire to know specifics, knowing we could get roleblocked at anytime, starts to take over. One of them is bad. 'y' avoids death yet again so we surmise 'x's avoidance of death, together with the fact he is bad, means he is probably Vader and that 'y' is Han and has probably been kidnapped.

Night 3:
We hunt 'x' again, we still can't kill him. We conclude he is Vader and that Maul is in the game. Our question concerns 'y' and 'a'.

'x' is Grim.
'y' is Han.

So, Han has been kidnapped because we triggered his use of the MF. Which means, Han is probably in the safest place but I still can't expect anyone to confirm their identity as Han and I wouldn't want to reveal it.

I don't think we lose anything by my coming forward like this. We were supposed to get Vader lynched and I was supposed to not get killed tonight, we could free Han and ask some more questions. The identity of the other Jedi, as well as which one I am, is still secret so implore you not to lynch me, I can freely pass on any information we can glean from the force and we can all use that information together to defeat the Sith. I really thought that was a good option for the Rebels. all I ask is that you believe me now, it makes the rest of the game much easier, I think?

What?

Malc

so luke hunted (ie tried to kill) grim... on night's 1 and 3 and he didn't die, so he must be Vader?

And luke hunted someone else on night 2, and that must be solo because he also didn't die?

Why would luke randomly try to kill people with nothing to go on? ( at least on the first night)

Also, you are normally very articualte, why does what you're saying not make any sense at the moment?

Malc

Also you said y avoids death again, but only targeted him on one night.

What did you mean by that?

Malc

FFS...

I started writing that with Grim... as 'y' and then ended up with him as 'x'. I'm such a dick, I probably deserve to die just for being a massive mong...I'm tired and I don't want to die .

Fucking Han, we targeted Han on night 1 and he flew away in the MF. We targeted Grim... on night 2 and asked questions about him on night 3, the answer to which was that he is Vader. On night 3 we targeted Han again. After we failed to kill Han and finding out that Grim... is Vader, Han could only be Han and had to have been kidnapped and he must have been kidnapped on night 2. He is now with Jabba.

Sorry fellow Jedi, I have ruined this game for you!! I had a massive malfunction there Plus, it is loads of hours past my bedtime.

We thought random hunts would help establish who was who and in a 50/50 situation, such as between Vader and Han, it seemed like a risk worth taking. And we thought it unlikely we'd hit an Ackbar RB in succession, especially when others came forward to say they had been blocked. We had no reason to doubt them. It turns out we had been fortunate not to kill an innocent and to find Vader.

I am incredibly tired, Malc. My bedtime is 10:30 but I'm staying here, digging myself a deeper hole because I so badly don't want to be lynched when I know I can now be used as a link between the Jedi information and the rest of the Rebels. Urgh.....I'm going to bed.

Please don't lynch me lol Oooh dear....If I survive until Day 5, we may have more information for you.

I'm unlikely to be around tomorrow morning dye to work so thought id pop on here now.

Wow.

If I'm reading it correctly, flis' logic seems sound but relies too much on assumption for my liking. The intricacy of her role claim is helping allay suspicion from my POV, it seems too well thought out to be a panicky fake claim by a Sithy.

However, as Malc points out, it's not terribly easy to read with all the x and y gubbins, so I could be totally misreading it.

If you attack someone and they don't die, you could have been roleblocked (who knew that non-Ackbar roleblock victims were told they were roleblocked? I didn't), they could have been Ackbarred, or they could have been protected or captured by a slaver. There may be two slaver operations in the game, so it's only about one in three that it's Maul protecting them.

Why assume Maul is in the game? Why the assumption that Vader is being protected? I would protect Palpatine - the more potential kill roles you have, the better. Defying enemy roleblocks is better than being able to roleblock yourself, and the Stormtroopers aren't disposable mooks - if the Sith are all killed, they rise up and can start killing as well.

You can ask any yes/no question you like about people. "likely to be good/bad" tells you little more than what the rest of us can figure out by deduction and playing the odds. You don't need assumptions and vague probabilities - you have the most powerful investigative tool in the game and a killing role, and someone to protect either one.

Also, the highlighted bit: How did you investigate two people in one night? And why did it turn up nothing instead of telling you whose side they were on?




You asked two questions in one night? BZZZZT.




If you're aware that the kidnappers also block kills, why assume that your target is Han? There's nothing at all to differentiate between Han as a slave and Lando or Leia as slaves, and I'm pretty sure that if you attacked Han and he escaped, you'd be told about it.



Again, how two questions?



This would have been a lot less confusing if you'd not used the algebraic functions, btw.

So, Han has been kidnapped because we triggered his use of the MF. Which means, Han is probably in the safest place but I still can't expect anyone to confirm their identity as Han and I wouldn't want to reveal it.

Why not? Assuming you've already completely wasted his only skill, Han is now a useless rebel. His risk of capture is no longer an issue, and he still can't be killed if everyone knows who he is. Better to out him than out a Jedi - plus, if he dies, Chewbacca gets his power.



How could you free Han? Do you know who Jabba is?

Why not just wait and ask more questions tonight? You could get Maul that way - it's not like Vader is doing much, especially as the Sith wouldn't know who you were if you hadn't piped up, so couldn't roleblock you.

Does not make any kind of sense, and I can't imagine how three of anyone here would agree on such a mental, ineffectual plan. If you are telling the truth, frankly I think we're better off on our own.

With in excess of 20 named roles, the odds of hitting Vader and Han through guesswork alone seems low.

Not beyond the realm of possibility though.