Be Excellent To Each Other

A place for non players to discuss the game if they wish.

I wonder if the spys would have done better not sabotaging the first mission ?

The 2nd mission may simply have gone as "The 3 from yesterday which were good +1" then the spy would be assumed to be the +1 ?

Using the official rules it's seems incredibly biased toward the spies, I can't see how they can lose really.
Maybe dropping the amount of spies down by one will help?

I haven't kept up with the discussion of the game and it all seems a bit dull to me. Where's the conflict?

it's the start of the game, and it seems to be picking up. Theories and distrust are starting.

Certainly busier than the early stages of most games.

The main conflict at least earlier today was that Russ was the leader but everyone seemed to have him pegged as the spy therefore whatever he suggested was going to get voted down regardless.

Which, yeah, I don't really get. Basically, what they're saying is "Russ is stupid" which I don't actually agree with in the slightest. Certainly not on the basis he's been put forward as a spy. But just the same as mafia being different means people think you're guilty without thinking about why that should be the case.

I'd be voting no anyway as I'm not convinced 4 man missions play well to the revolution, although I am currently unsure as to the rules about the number of people the next mission could have if the current one were voted out.

Other thoughts: They rushed day 1, which may well turn out to be costly. Failing to even establish anything means what information might have been gained has mainly been trashed. Shame.

If this one gets voted out, the next mission still has 4.

Mission 1 = 3 people
Mission 2 = 4 people
Mission 3 = 4 people
Mission 4 = 5 people but 2 sabotages needed to fail
Mission 5 = 5 people

Mmm, it is very weighted towards the spies, isn't it.

If the players are willing, I'd like to re-run the game with 3 spies instead of 4 to see what happens.
And then do another run with the plot cards in...

I'm surprised how unbalanced it seems to be though, I would have thought this would have been noticed during the creation of the game, as I don't think it is a by product of playing online.

I mean, how the fuck are you supposed to man the last mission with only resistance? You'd have to know who every spy is by that point to even have a chance.

It's like a game of mastermind, but you're only allowed to make 2 mistakes!

Malc

Body language would tell a lot, I believe, as would the more enforced talkingness.


I'm also of the opinion that the resistance are stuffing their chances by not thinking that hard about how to get the information they need... See who considers what rule important, see who has read the rules in a certain way.... And so on.

I haven't watched it yet but the last Tabletop was The Resistance :

A resistance member who was put into the mission has voted no to himself being sent out

Perhaps its a clever double bluff ?

Anyway have watched the Tabletop episode which is just a scaled down version and yes to my mind its easier for the spies to win but not a sure thing - i wonder if possible something like that (5 players / 2 spies) may have been a better starting point as a test ?

Surely the spies should have let the first mission go ahead to make the resistance feel secure in themselves and then sabotaged on the next one or the one after. Sabotaging the first mission seems like a mistake as it seems no-one is going to agree on a team to send out at this rate.

Oh dear.

Indeed

Monday's a bank holiday don't forget. Some peeps might not be checking the forum

Good point, but we havent run to time yet so I dont expect us to start now

So it turns out this game isn't quite as one sided as originally thought, when you take into account the belm capabilities of your average beexer

I'm... Somewhat astounded. I'm just not entirely sure what I'm astounded by.

Well, apart from SGs complete lack of reading ability.

A question for Trooper - have the night actions / mission choices timed out or have they all voted ?

I do think there is at least one spy in that group of 4 they are sending and the fact they are not sabotaging seems odd.

If there were only one, it'd have been done.
So either none (in which case super massive belm from the spies and they were stuffed from the moment they let it go ahead) or lots who are all leaving the sabotage to others.

In which case they're safe tonight but have to make sure the new member isn't also a spy.

It amuses me how no-one questioned why the spies would be voting yes to proposals that didn't have any spies on it...

No night actions have been missed and no time outs. I think the only person that missed anything was Grim... on the first mission 2 proposal vote.

I know.

My mind is well and truly boggled.

Of course, if anyone had suggested in game that maybe, just maybe,the 'safe' group contained a spy, they would've been immediately denounced as a spy. Despite the odds being astronomically low, the voting not bearing out the story, and the logic being used to go for said list being based on something quite wet and sandy.

Because standing out is apparently always the sign of a suspicious man and/or woman.

So one mission to go - the town really dont know any baddies and are likely to send at least one on it and its game over

" I have been working on the assumption it is Mr Russell because I can't think of any reason why a goody would lie about their vote before they discovered we'd all find out. "

But Gilly, he never lied - find where he ever said he voted yes. And what spy would vote no to a mission he was on. Which is why I didn't much like the logic used being basically "Who wouldn't be a spy if Russ was". He may be, but he wasn't ever my first suspicion of that group (Hello, Mr(s?) SG)

And by not choosing someone from the original group, you're pretty much guaranteed a spy in the mission.

Hmm, if I were to currently guess, I'd be going for Mali, slightly green and Craster as spies. Sdg, kovacs, russ and probably bobby as innocent. I'd be looking mainly at grim... or Saturn chap as the other spy.

Of course I could be wrong, not helped by the general lack of forcing information going on in the threads means there's precious little to go on, and so the above if generally only based on one point of information and so by definition highly unreliable.

Aye, not that much conversation going on, which doesn't help.

I have the expansion plot cards to try next time (if people want to try again) which force more information into play, but as the game is complex enough as it is, it wasn't a good idea to use them first time around I don't think.

Holy crap it is frustrating not being able to talk to your fellow spies! That was ace

See? I told you!

That was... Different.

I think its a game that is by design very difficult for the resistance to win, but I think that makes it less enjoyable really.
The resistance have to be extremely lucky to win the final round.

Mwahaha. It was good being a spy.

I put in a massive communication in one of my posts saying 'you'd have to be stupid to be a spy and pass up your chance to sabotage' and then both spies on that mission failed to sabotage!

Although that probably worked well for making sure there were two on the double sabotage mission.

So funny when Gill and I clearly went 'Let's lay low this time' on the first mission we were on, then 'Let the other person sabotage' on the second one

I think there were definite tells and tactics that were missed, for obvious reasons as nobody knew what was going on

1) If everyone votes yes, there is a very good chance that there is at least one spy on the mission.
2) There is just as much value in a voted down proposal as there is in a completed mission.
3) If you are a resistance member, you really should want to be sent out on missions.
4) The spies can't talk to each other outside of the game, so they have to try and message each other in game. There were a few instances of that going on.

Heh - there were?

I raised the first three repeatedly, but the only person helping me out with that was a spy!

Didn't make for the most enthralling viewing, partly due to how unbalanced it was, partly as only two spies gave fairly obvious tells, and partly as no bugger on the resistance got enough conversation going to make any particular inferences on those who weren't kind enough to volunteer information as to their spy hood.

I couldn't believe we missed two chances i though if I should choose you to go on the mission because I was trying my best to play as a goody and in that mindset I had no reason to not trust you. I hoped you would guess that in my spy mindset, choosing another spy for a mission I was on would mean I wouldn't do the sabotage! I also said I would vote exactly the same way as soon as the next mission was proposed and hoped you'd read that and realise I meant it literally. I was watching in case you posted anything to give me a hint of your intentions but you didn't
Sorry mr Russ for seeming to turn on you immediately, I was acting how I would act as a goody and as a goody I'd think that dodgy, but I tried damage limitation by pointing out in the thread that our votes would be revealed as soon as I realised we could all potentially make ourselves look bad.
It's so frustrating not being able to talk to each other! It must be really difficult trying to figure things out as resistance, I think bobby and saturnalian in particular we're doing a pretty great job and named a few of us on a couple of occasions. Saturnalian nearly managed a spy free mission as well!

SG to Mr Russ after the first proposal was agreed.

"hmm thats a very interesting idea, since the spies can't communicate outside of the thread then we need to be on the look out for that type of thing.

Anyway I have sent in my support of the mission so guess we are just waiting on the other two..."

I think there were a couple more too.

Oh yes! So close to a resistance win

Man, was I wrong. It turns out Russian actually is stupid.

Fun game, thanks for running it troops.

And I can't believe how blemmy I was with my inability to fucking read...doh. Kept reading the first post from the fist mission and had myself convinced I was in the right...

I was also stunned with SDG and Cras handing over 2 points to the resistance, but alls well that ends well.



May the loyal fighters of the empire enjoy a nice night off, then back to work. Good job all