Be Excellent To Each Other

OK, I've reread the thread more slowly. My take on all this:

We have two power groups working against each other. One of them is likely to contain some Mafia. I initially thought it unlikely the Mafia would be too public this early in the game, but Poison Ivy is a ticking time bomb that changes everyone's play styles. Statistically, if they started with, say, only four members and reckon on losing perhaps one during the game they need 20 deaths to win then -- that would force their hand and make them play hard for lynchings. If I were them I would do this by only exposing a couple of members of the team, so I reckon there are at most three mafia on one of the sides.

One group is Dudley, Spinglo Sponglo!, LaceSensor -- currently all voting for Pundy. ComicalGnomes would look like he was allied to these, based on his defense of LaceSensor yesterday; his current vote for Dudley could be an attempt to put some distance between them. I think it was made early on when there was little chance of Dudley hanging. This is a scum tell, for sure.

The other group is vegetables, zardoz, Runcle.

Note that both groups contain a roleclaim, who is currently looking like they might swing, and both groups have a very very vocal "proven good" Mafia player who is making long, solid arguments against the other group.

I think we urgently need to lynch one of these two groups so we can figure out which group has bad 'uns in it. I also think the Emo Teen is less important to the town than the Penguin (as even if the Emo Teen becomes Robin, and saves Batman's life on night, whoever targetted Batman will know the next day who he is, and just come back for him). Whereas the Penguin is a good mafia hunting machine -- fingers crossed we have a doctor. Of course, either roleclaim could be a lie, and one of them is certain to be.

Hence, [vote:pundabaya].

I know myself and although I can't prove myself 100% (which I have already said) there is a way in which we can test what I am saying.

People like runcle and vegetables seem not to want to do that, which really does make me suspicious of them.

Malc

Three things:
1) Yes, I am going to vote for someone, I am just waiting for the next vote count.
2) If Penguin investigates a voted person, that voted person is going to know Penguin is going to investigate, and therefore will not do a night action. Will Penguin still learn their night action if they don't perform it?
3) LaceSensor, as you have commented Re Pundabaya, I agree, however, a certian caped crusader will also have picked up on this, so I reckon this will be sorted out tonight anyway. Basically, voting for Pundabaya is a pointless vote at this time, as he will either be in the Asylum tomorrow, or not. Unless Batman doesn't approach.
Is there any specific block roles, eg the doctor can protect, can someone block the emo to Robin metamorphosis by targeting Robin, rather than Batman?

Good points Bobbyaro.

So, is there a suspect in the mooted "dodgy" groups the town can converge upon apart from Pundabaya. Dudley has CGs suspicions and I'm inclined to trust CG as he trusted me.

Malc is still a wild, wild card. I say let him do his investigating, then learn something from it.
IF he is deceiving us, we still will get a decent kill when we do him the next day.

Vote Update

craster: 1 vote (grim...)
dudley: 4 votes (comicalgnomes, craster, curiosity, mr russ)
pundabaya: 8 votes (dudley, goddess jasmine, kevr, lacesensor, mr dave, pundabaya, richardgaywood, spinglo sponglo!)
spinglo sponglo!: 3 votes (runcle, vegetables, zardoz)

Not voted: bobbyaro, craig, mimi, plissken, rodafowa, sheepeh, tsumuch

With 21 players alive and free, 11 votes are required for a lynch and 16 votes for there to be no lynch.

He finds out their win condition, not their night action. Assuming he's honest and CG is town (the cop so CG claims) he doesn't HAVE a night action.

Also, if people are saying Pundy is roleclaiming as the emo teen, firstly he's not pretending to be a teen, he's pretending to a member of an awful, awful band. Secondly, role claiming would not be playing to his CURRENT win condition (but then by voting for himself he's almost certainly not doing so anyway). It'll be interesting to see if this attacks modkillness.... if it doesn't, maybe he's not who you think he is.



I'm not going to roleclaim, but I can certainly assure you I'm part of no group here at all. It is however occasionally possible that smart people with common interests reach similar conclusions. Clearly Vegetables has never found anyone of a similar intelligence level to him before

Malc deserves a night or two, if he does keep hitting townies then that's going to be too bad for him, because he'll be done for. He hasn't got to piss off the town, just the doctor, and that's assuming there is one.

I obviously don't KNOW Pundy, Runcle and Zardoz are scum. However Pundy presents a case and looks like the best bandwagon, I'm not sure I'd have gone for him first, Zardoz is horribly quiet for instance but hey, if there's going to me an information gathering lynch it's not going to be one of the other two it seems and a no lynch leaves any potential Ivy in pole.

Bobbs, here's that vote update.

Vote Update

craster: 1 vote (grim...)
dudley: 4 votes (comicalgnomes, craster, curiosity, mr russ)
pundabaya: 8 votes (dudley, goddess jasmine, kevr, lacesensor, mr dave, pundabaya, richardgaywood, spinglo sponglo!)
spinglo sponglo!: 3 votes (runcle, vegetables, zardoz)

Not voted: bobbyaro, craig, mimi, plissken, rodafowa, sheepeh, tsumuch

With 21 players alive and not making excellent 70s comedies, 11 votes are required for a lynch and 16 votes for there to be a mass Forza sesh instead.

[vote:runcle]

[vote:dudley]

Runcle's arguements against Malc make no sense, and his comments yesterday also didn't. Both him and Vegetables are saying the same thing, which seems to be against the town's best interests. I am also now quite suspicious of Dr Benttwig. His comments about what the mafia "could" be doing, sounded a lot like what the mafia "are" doing, and I know cos I am one. Then he voted not with Runcle and Vegetables.

Voting for him makes no sense. He's guarenteed to pick up Batman's action this evening, so if he's a bad guy, he goes into Arkham and we can lynch him at leisure.

You're dirty, Duds. You're a bad guy, sure as sure.

What!?!?!?!

Malc

I'm sorry. Did you just roleclaim membership of the Cosa Nostra?

Vote Update

craster: 1 vote (grim...)
dudley: 5 votes (comicalgnomes, craster, curiosity, mr russ, plissken)
pundabaya: 8 votes (dudley, goddess jasmine, kevr, lacesensor, mr dave, pundabaya, richardgaywood, spinglo sponglo!)
runcle: 1 vote (bobbyaro)
spinglo sponglo!: 3 votes (runcle, vegetables, zardoz)

Not voted: craig, mimi, rodafowa, sheepeh, tsumuch

With 21 players alive, 11 votes are required for a lynch and 16 votes for there to be no lynch.

Heh - I think Bobby's 'I' was meant to be RichardGaywood.

Sorry, that was supposed to be talkiong as Dr Gaywood. I put the quotes in the wrong place.

Don't vote for Pundy - annoying or not, he's not evil I don't think.

On the other hand, I'm convinced of Dudley being scum. He's far too hyperbolic to be a useless townie role. In conclusion, vote for Dudley, thx.

Well, I take your point, but then again if you were right that's not what I would do is it? I'd stay out of it much more, or vote for someone random on the sidelines like Runcle.

The nature of this game is that you can't make a move without attracting some suspicion from someone, but you can't play the game without making some moves. I stand by my reasoning in my previous post; we have to lynch one of these two groups (before we get another day timeout) to figure out which group has some rottens in it. I feel Pundy is the right lynch, and he's way ahead in votes. If we don't lynch anyone tonight, and Batman doesn't target Pundy for some reason (perhaps he is roleblocked, or in the Asylum already, or has a strong feeling about a bad guy he thinks takes priority) we'll be no further along tomorrow than we are today.

Hmmm. Looking at an updated vote count, perhaps we should be going after Dudley. He hasn't roleclaimed as anything valuable to the town, is looking like he might have enough votes to get lynched, and has been vocal enough in his condemnation of Pundy/vegetabkes and support of Spinglo Sponglo that he is a likely candidate for scum on the other side. I'll see how it goes -- I'm amenable to changing my vote to Dudley if there is a bandwagon. I just think it's important we lynch one of those guys, not so worried about which one.

SUSPICIONS UPDATE:

Dudley's looking like he may be headed for a lynch, so now the bad guys are moving to sacrifice him for the greater good.

RichardGaywood
ComicalGnomes

and from before:

Spinglo Sponglo!
LaceSensor.

Lynch Dudley, then we go for the rest of these guys one by one.

An excuse you've used as scum before. "we can lynch him whenever, he's bound to be killed tonight". How many games has CG won on that premise again?



Fair enough, if it gets close, as I said, I will spill all knowledge I have in support on my win condition. I am not scum, if you lynch me I can still "win". I'm playing a game purely to my win condition, Pundy isn't, unless he's the joker or scum. If the rules are to be ignored in that respect I've clearly made a (probably fatal) error in my tactics but I'm not going to change them now.

But in this game, there is NO POSSIBLE REASON for the Batman not to go for Pundy tonight. It's not a case of "leave it, someone else will do it", there is one person - Batman.

Unless of course batman doesn't think the he's the emo teen or evil and would rather go for someone he finds suspicious, could well be me in fact.

I do suspect you to be right there, but Pundy is the only one of my 3 suspects that we're likely to lynch, hence my vote. Get a wagon aimed at Runcle or Zardoz and I'm with you, I'd prefer the suspiciously silent Zardoz.

[Vote:Dudley]

mainly because its the majority between him and malc, so a switch to the greater value.
I guess malc can persuade us hes the penguin tomorrow aswell.

I'm not buying it Duds, I think you need to swing.

[vote: Dudley]

If we apply the pressure, maybe you will spill the info, which would be useful.

No offence buddy, I just think you are the most lynchable, and as people seem to want a lynch, lets roll with it.

Im willing to let off Pundabaya for today, but if he doesnt turn up in the asylum tommorow, or admit to being recruited as Robin, I say we do him. He is likely to attaract killing attention for his Emo boy rolecall anyway, so admitting to being Robin will do him no more harm, in the situation that he doesnt end up in the asylum.

Malc is STILL a wildcard.
I would like him to check out vegetables or runcle.

Vote Update

craster: 1 vote (grim...)
dudley: 7 votes (comicalgnomes, craster, curiosity, lacesensor, mr russ, plissken, runcle)
pundabaya: 7 votes (dudley, goddess jasmine, kevr, mr dave, pundabaya, richardgaywood, spinglo sponglo!)
runcle: 1 vote (bobbyaro)
spinglo sponglo!: 2 votes (vegetables, zardoz)

Not voted: craig, mimi, rodafowa, sheepeh, tsumuch

With 21 players alive and free, 11 votes are required for a lynch and 16 votes for there to be no lynch.

Assuming he's telling the truth, rather me for a townie win condition than Malc certainly. I'm not that valueable to the town. I have left 2 clues but they're so insanely subtle I didn't expect anyone to get them.

The town have to lynch somebody tonight. I can't see that much of a benefit in lynching Pundy - I do believe that Pundy is the Emo Teen, not just from the clues but IMO it is a roleclaim that a decent bluffer wouldn't make. It would be pointless to lie about it because if Batman moves to recruit then they'll end up in Arkham anyway, the lie is exposed and that is a one way ticket to the Gotham Cemetary. And if Pundy is lying and Batman doesn't attempt to recruit, then that is also a trip to the gallows.

The fact that despite all this, Dudley is still trying to get us all to point the finger at Pundabaya confirms my suspicions about Dudley. I ask my fellow concerned citizens to vote for Dudley.

I'm not trying to get you to point the finger at Pundy at all, as I'm said an almost tiresome number of times now, I voted for him because he was the only one of my 3 suspects who was likely to get lynched. I would prefer to lynch Zardoz but that isn't going to happen.

If Pundy is the emo teen he's not playing to his win condition and should be modkilled, the only win condition he's actually playing to is scum but badly. The error I've made if any is actually following the rules and playing to mine.

I'm not sure I follow your logic about the Emo Teen not playing to his win condition.

technically he hasnt actually role claimed at all, hes just hinted, whereas malc has role claimed and if hes the penguin then hes done it against his win condition and should be mod-killed.

He's playing to get recruited by the bat, which changes his win condition, Rev made it very clear you had to play to your CURRENT one (a rule I disagreed with but a rule nontheless) to stop people trying to get cult recruited etc.

His CURRENT win condition, which the rules say should be his only concern is.



So he should be trying to lynch townies but keeping a low profile. He's doing neither, he's blatantly trying to get batted if he's the emo teen. (which I doubt he is tbh but we'll find out)



No, he's asked for doctor protection which would guarantee his survival and thus win, in return for something that benefits a win condition to which he is neutral. That's playing RIGHT into his win condition. It's a gamble but it's directly in line with his win condition.

If he's telling the truth of course.

[vote: Dudley]

u 2

An obvious vote, but a bit of a giveaway when it turns out I'm on the town's side donchathink? If Malc clears veg and Pundy ends up in Arkham, I think you just booked a lynching tomorrow.

Can we stop all the micro-analysing of win conditions and asking for modkills please? It's detracting from the bluff/doublebluff/lie/analyse that this game is supposed to be about.

Right, sorry I've been quiet most of the day, but I'm off work today and Monday so haven't got as much time to hang around here as I'd like.

I can't vote, but if Pundy's the Emo Teen, then his win condition's counter to the town's and you should lynch the bugger. If he isn't, then he's a liar (and I'm not sure about you) and you should lynch the bugger. Spinglo Sponglo's role is an easy one to check over the next couple of days (particularly if he ends up floating face-down in Gotham Harbour tomorrow morning) so it seems pointless stringing him up today.

Can I just repeat that I'm more likely to be an innocent role than anyone in the game (with the exception of LaceSensor) and as such I'd really, really, really like to be let out of this bloody asylum?

um my win condition is to survive to the end. That is all. I was about to swing earlier, that looks less likely now, I think that's fulfilling my win condition.

Malc

Which is partly why it's a stupid rule, but whilst it IS a rule, it's entirely legit to call shenanigans when someone is playing against their condition and it's going to result in my near innocent lynching.

He's catwoman!

Malc

What Gaywood said.

I know the roles. I know the win conditions. I will decide when someone violates these enough to warrant a mod kill.

That's the end of the matter.

yes but your survival depends on the chances of there actually being a doctor. so if you really are penguin im sure the mafia will go for you tonight since they have a good chance to get rid of the towns last investigative role.

A 70% chance of a guarenteed win? I think I'd have taken that in his case.

It is a risk, but I was about to swing! so I felt it was a risk worth taking...

Malc

...unless the doctor gets lynched/killed.

or put in arkham asylum.

True. But it's difficult to survive a game, I quite like it as a tactic (and it's already one that saved him from a lynch today).

I wonder if anyone will roleclaim Doctor...

Actually no, that would be REALLY fucking stupid, the mafia would off you instantly.

bizarre comment. why would they?

Only if they want to die!

can we lynch dudley already? we need to lynch someone in these two apparent groups, but Im going to laugh if the mafia have just kept away from the whole affair.

Note that Runcle is one of my 3...

So are we going for this, do I need to post my stored roleclaim post? 3 from dead is a touch soon.

Tell you what, I'll keep it there, if we lynch Pundy I'll make it my first post of tomorrow.