Be Excellent To Each Other

Except what this guy is saying has NOTHING to do with my paints being all dried up. As much as I hate to defend GW...

They weren't as bad as they are now, mind. Inflation really can't account for all of the difference in price between now and 15 years ago. You used to be able to get ace boxes of multi-part orks, Imperial Guard and Mk 6 Space marines containing 30 troops for 9.99. It's now, what, a tenner for 5 plastic multi part marines? Alright, they're better quality, but once you've got the moulds made that's your work done.



Oh? The ones I have that are mk 1 pots are still going even the best part of 20 years later. The screw top ones I've had from GW lasted perhaps a year.

What's the problem with yours?

I had pretty much all the mk1 ones. When I went back to it years later, they had mk2s, and one or two of the mk1s had gone off.

Never seen the ones after that.

Mine were entirely MK1 and MK2, there were no screwcaps in among them. The old white tops had a design flaw, the hinge would become fatigued with heavy use, and the top would fall off. Not a massive problem (except when you put the wrong top on when you were done, d'oh!) but it tended to crack the lids after a while, because of how you put the tops back on in this state. Most of mine were either cracked or badly sealed in some way. I actually found another 10, 6 of which were salvageble, all colours that I didn't use very much.

I've just ordered 10 sponds worth of Vallejo paints using this colour chart for conversion.

I think we're all missing the most obvious point here: We need a venue for the inaugural BETEO twenty-a-side skirmishathon.

With beer.

Beards optional.

I used to go to this comics shop called Comicville, run by a really nice couple, in Huddersfield. They also had a Leeds branch. This was about twelve years ago. Anyway, they had the timmerity to stock non GW figures as well, and rival tabletop gaming brands. GW sent a bloke over who told them that if they kept selling rival products, they'd stop selling them stock. At the time GW accounted for half the floorspace. Happily, the lovely couple told them to fuck off and turned the floor space over to yet more comics, second and first hand vinyl records, awesome t-shirts and clothes, strange doo-hickeys and Mexican Day of the Dead junk.

I miss Comicville. Once Paul Daniels went in with Debbie McGee, and he started griping constantly about this practical jokes line ripping off his ideas. Complete wanker, but Debbie was very funny.

Scissor Sisters used to go there too. Nice people.

I agree that the minis are overpriced, but it's not really fair to compare the new plastics to the old (fucking rubbish) plastics.

I bought a Space Marines tactical squad for 18 pounds. Shocking!

But how much would it have cost me 10 years ago, for models of a similar quality?

3x3 Space Marine blisters @ 4.99
1x 1 Devastator Marine @ 2.99
1x 1 Special Weapons Marine @ 2.50
1x1 Sargent @ (2.50- 2.99 depending on model.. call it 2.99)

Which would be £23.45. With 2 extra models, of course.

I think they used to do a metal tactical squad for 20 quid.

The other thing is that the placcy squad I bought includes far more options. As well as the tactical marine sprue, (which includes armour types etc.) you also get a space marine weapons sprue, which includes flamer, plasma gun and melta gun, chainswords, various pistols. Whereas, your options were much more limited if you bought the old metal stuff.

If you buy the plastic, you can have one tactical squad, or two combat squads. I think you might be able to scrape an assault combat squad out of the bits instead of a tactical combat squad.

Now, 18 quid for a Rhino? Fuck off! I remember when they were a fiver. Yeah, incredibly better quality, but its a Rhino. The most boring vehicle in the entire Imperium.

(Edited to add: Why am I defending the Evil Games Workshop?)

Oh, Oh, Oh...was that in the victorian Arcade near the train station? If so that was rather splendid...now there is only the very small Wargames Emporium on one of the upper floors.

I think it is, though.

In both cases you've got plastic sprues with various options and bits and bobs - the old sprues had loads of bayonets, ammo pouches and extra guns and whatnot. In the old ones you had three times as many sprues, and roughly 3 times as much plastic, as you get now.

The only difference between then and now is that the new plastic models have a greater level of detail in the individual pieces. The only extra cost to that is the initial cost of making the prototype and having the mould built up.

Now, I can't believe that running your kits off of a more detailed mould triples the cost of the kits. Once you've had the mould made, all you're doing is pouring in plastic. Revell aeroplane kits, for instance, have several sprues of much better quality, far more detailed plastic pieces than GW make, and cost less for a decent sized plane than GW charge for 5 plastic marines.

I agree that there's no comparison between the old plastic GW kits and the new ones in terms of quality - the new ones are far better. However, I really do dispute the additional cost that comes from that additional level of detail.

GW charge more because they can - they've cornered the market in terms of visibility for fantasy and SF wargames. Yes, there are others, such as Void, Starship Troopers and so on, but although in some cases they're far superior in terms of game mechanics and value for money, they're much less well known. If you're a teenage kid going to get into wargaming, you're going to do something that you can get hold of from the local shop and that your mates have heard of. Which means GW and their ludicrously over priced, constantly revised, "oh, sorry, you also need to buy the book of guns, book of vehicles, and two codexes before you can actually make use of the 30 quid rulebook", piss take wargames.

Anyone know a good place to pick up fantasy/medieval miniatures these days? I've got the urge to do our Dark Ages party, so ideally I'd need a Norse-looking fella, a guy in chainmail with a morningstar, another one with short hair and a two-handed sword and a bloke in a hooded cloak.

Ooooooh.

Just saw this.

This is a very, very good idea.

I have a bunch of unused 40k stuff I can break out and paint up for this. [/nerdgasm]

<twitches>

You know you want to, mali. Sell your bike and buy some Forgeworld titans. Well, one.

This would be a bad time to imply I have a strip lit attic with a couple of desks in it and a power supply and a spare five by two and a half feet table, which needs a hobby to fill it, wouldn't it?

I had GW miniatures in my hands in a Hobby shop in Preston today.

Very, very close to buying (if they'd have had some Nurgle stuff I'd have probably crumbled), but I put it all back.

I'll settle with looking at pictures and reminiscing. Far, far cheaper.

Or a very good time, Mali, depending on one's perspective.

5 by 2 1/2 is a bit small though - can you fit a 6 by 4 up there? Missus, etc.

Zardoz - you're never going to have spare money again, mate, so now's the time to make the most of it - and your window of opportunity is shrinking by the day.....

It's got to fit through the attic door, so that's off. Soz.

I intended to get round that at my parents place by using two trestle tables and then having six 2 by 2 sectional board pieces on top - this also means you can have some fixed scenery on the boards and still get variation in set-up.

I never got round to doing this but will be having a go at some point with our spare attic room.

All around to Mr Chris' Parents then.

I know what you're saying but my head and heart are confirming that my 'pocket money' is for consoles and games, plus, I can get more value for money and enjoyment from building Gundam kits etc.

When are you buying a 360 Mr Chris?

You're missing the point, yes, I know that the new plastics don't cost more to make, but that surely is irrelevant.

It used to be that the desirable army is one that is all metal (because the plastics were shite), but now that is not the case. The plastics have replaced pretty much all the troop models, and there are a few blister packs in each store. The only bad thing with that, is that there's no newcomer's option anymore.

If you compare the cost of the new plastics with the old metal, the prices haven't increased that much, at least for the basic troopers. (which, after all, is where the most expense will be for a standard army. Collecting an army isn't too bad compared with 10 years ago, price wise. (though some models do take the piss).

From the point of view of 'same materials, similar cost of labour' I can see your point, but at the end of the day, these aren't just models, there are intangibles attached to them.

Infuckingdeed: Space Marine Commander £10

That's why it's a "door", not a "cover".

I think Ace meant hinges on the table you'll be hauling up there.

Hmm, I guess it doesn't tell you if someone else has posted since you started writing if you use the fast Reply box.

What he said.

Yes, it was! It moved three times. Once from Byram Arcade (train station one) to Imperial Arcade (oh ho! apt!) nearer the bus station, and then back again. And then that closed down and they moved to the Merrion Centre in Leeds. I haven't spoken to the owners Tony and Carol for five years now, wish I knew how they were getting on. Same with Adam and Amy who were the two incredibly cool underlings who DJ'd at Phono and the Fab Cafe. There were really good Comicville endorsed fancy dress nights there, including the one where I pulled dressed as Shawn from Shawn of the Dead. I worked the door also so I got to take my cricket bat in. Zombie head blatting fun! But yes, I miss them. *sniff*

I was about to post to say 'well, you don't have to use the commander...' but I checked, and apparently, you do. Barstewards.

I've skipped this thread, because I genuinely dare not read it. I mean, I have a social life, with beer and women, to think of. Stop it, all of you please!


Think of the, er, fat thirty-something dudes....

Wahay! Just had a big clear out of my junk drawer behind my computer and found 2 chaos Obliteraters (value £12 each), an Iron Warriors Warsmith (£7) and an Emperor's Children Lord (£7). A Good Day.

Oh, I see your point and I agree, but unlike previously where you could have the metals for your characters and a few of the troops in each squad as the "specials", and pad out the rest with the various plastics, now all you've got is the expensive option. Made from, ironically enough, the cheaper material.

Have you got shares in GW or something?

Its pretty funny how this topic came up while FLIS and myself were in Manchester last week. As we walked by a Games-Workshop (we don't have them over here) we both had a bit of a chuckle about what kind of nerdy, sunlight avoiding, beardy, snorting type of people actually play these games.

Play?! Nah. Paint, aye.

Hmm...

Internet forum poster +30 Geek
It's predominantly a gaming forum + 20 Geek
Tabletop Wargaming thread + 70 Geek

Careful lads, careful.

Cool -- what can I get for 120 points?

Erm. I go bird watching and like metal too, does that I'm an uber nerd?

In fact, Meaty Angle likes trains too.

I fear then that it's too late.

Twitchers + 75 Geek
Trains +500 Geek

The stories I could tell... MS Flight Sim... Tokyo Bus Guide...

I must say that, given the amount of discussion in this thread, it is quite amusing that 91% of poll respondants said either "No, of course not. Tabletop wargamers are so nerdy they make PC fanboys look cool and studly" or "I used to, but then I discovered girls". Methinks some people are in denial.

You didn't offer "I used to and probably would get withdrawal shakes from it if someone created a nine page thread full of pictures of £500 Titan models". That one might have gotten a few votes.

I originally voted 3, but then thanks to That Bastard Pundy, I'm now a number 2. fnarr etc.

I was option 4. But it's OK, I don't really want to know.

Similarly, I was option 3, but am now option 2, because of that cunt Dimmers.

About 40 Imperial Guard troopers.

Laughs at nerd joke!