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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 13:55 
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Mr Dave wrote:
I assumed you meant Trump


You have to admit, he's rather aptly named in that case.

Whenever people go on about "Trump Towers" or whatnot, I have to stifle a schoolboy toilet humour induced giggle. I can't help but envision a shimmering, golden shrine to air-buffets or somesuch.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 15:02 
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Wow, I think that too. Great minds, and all that.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 22:59 
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Can you dig it?

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Mr Russell wrote:
I thought it might mean methane gas from cows, which is what normally gets mentioned.


A friend of mine watched Cowspiracy and was telling me about it the other day. I have another friend that quite often posts links to anti-animal agriculture articles on FB. Some of them are quite convincing... And yet, I do love eating meat (title) and would find it very hard to give up. Lady T and I have in the past done meat-free meal days as a way to, primarily, save cash when it's been tight. I mean, I'm aware of the problem, and do kind of care, but can't really find the personal-level impetus to actually do anything. That's kind of awful, isn't it? I'm not sure I'll really change much unless someone actually makes me, and that's probably true for a lot of people.

I wonder how many people share this sort of feeling that I'm struggling to describe - a kind of 'something really ought to be done, and I'd like to do something, but don't want to give up this / change that / make the effort.'

Cavey wrote:
air-buffets or somesuch.


:DD Nice

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:28 
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I eat more meat than I probably should but try and balance it out by buying 'ethically sourced' meats (e.g. free range chickens etc) or meats from local farms from the butcher whenever I can. It probably means nothing in the grand scheme of things but it appeases my conscience ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:56 
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I read a thing about the carbon footprint and all the efforts being put in by 80million cars or whatever being reduced to such and such a rate...

and that it was eclipsed in one month by the 8 biggest shipping freight liners.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 21:23 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Quote:
expertariat

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:16 
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http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... umans.html

Quote:
The Earth has experienced five mass extinctions before the one we are living through now, each so complete a slate-wiping of the evolutionary record it functioned as a resetting of the planetary clock, and many climate scientists will tell you they are the best analog for the ecological future we are diving headlong into. Unless you are a teenager, you probably read in your high-school textbooks that these extinctions were the result of asteroids. In fact, all but the one that killed the dinosaurs were caused by climate change produced by greenhouse gas. The most notorious was 252 million years ago; it began when carbon warmed the planet by five degrees, accelerated when that warming triggered the release of methane in the Arctic, and ended with 97 percent of all life on Earth dead. We are currently adding carbon to the atmosphere at a considerably faster rate; by most estimates, at least ten times faster. The rate is accelerating.


Quote:
Climate-change skeptics point out that the planet has warmed and cooled many times before, but the climate window that has allowed for human life is very narrow, even by the standards of planetary history. At 11 or 12 degrees of warming, more than half the world’s population, as distributed today, would die of direct heat. Things almost certainly won’t get that hot this century, though models of unabated emissions do bring us that far eventually. This century, and especially in the tropics, the pain points will pinch much more quickly even than an increase of seven degrees. The key factor is something called wet-bulb temperature, which is a term of measurement as home-laboratory-kit as it sounds: the heat registered on a thermometer wrapped in a damp sock as it’s swung around in the air (since the moisture evaporates from a sock more quickly in dry air, this single number reflects both heat and humidity). At present, most regions reach a wet-bulb maximum of 26 or 27 degrees Celsius; the true red line for habitability is 35 degrees. What is called heat stress comes much sooner.

Actually, we’re about there already. Since 1980, the planet has experienced a 50-fold increase in the number of places experiencing dangerous or extreme heat; a bigger increase is to come. The five warmest summers in Europe since 1500 have all occurred since 2002, and soon, the IPCC warns, simply being outdoors that time of year will be unhealthy for much of the globe. Even if we meet the Paris goals of two degrees warming, cities like Karachi and Kolkata will become close to uninhabitable, annually encountering deadly heat waves like those that crippled them in 2015. At four degrees, the deadly European heat wave of 2003, which killed as many as 2,000 people a day, will be a normal summer. At six, according to an assessment focused only on effects within the U.S. from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, summer labor of any kind would become impossible in the lower Mississippi Valley, and everybody in the country east of the Rockies would be under more heat stress than anyone, anywhere, in the world today. As Joseph Romm has put it in his authoritative primer Climate Change: What Everyone Needs to Know, heat stress in New York City would exceed that of present-day Bahrain, one of the planet’s hottest spots, and the temperature in Bahrain “would induce hyperthermia in even sleeping humans.” The high-end IPCC estimate, remember, is two degrees warmer still. By the end of the century, the World Bank has estimated, the coolest months in tropical South America, Africa, and the Pacific are likely to be warmer than the warmest months at the end of the 20th century. Air-conditioning can help but will ultimately only add to the carbon problem; plus, the climate-controlled malls of the Arab emirates aside, it is not remotely plausible to wholesale air-condition all the hottest parts of the world, many of them also the poorest. And indeed, the crisis will be most dramatic across the Middle East and Persian Gulf, where in 2015 the heat index registered temperatures as high as 163 degrees Fahrenheit. As soon as several decades from now, the hajj will become physically impossible for the 2 million Muslims who make the pilgrimage each year.


Quote:
Climates differ and plants vary, but the basic rule for staple cereal crops grown at optimal temperature is that for every degree of warming, yields decline by 10 percent. Some estimates run as high as 15 or even 17 percent. Which means that if the planet is five degrees warmer at the end of the century, we may have as many as 50 percent more people to feed and 50 percent less grain to give them. And proteins are worse: It takes 16 calories of grain to produce just a single calorie of hamburger meat, butchered from a cow that spent its life polluting the climate with methane farts.

Pollyannaish plant physiologists will point out that the cereal-crop math applies only to those regions already at peak growing temperature, and they are right — theoretically, a warmer climate will make it easier to grow corn in Greenland. But as the pathbreaking work by Rosamond Naylor and David Battisti has shown, the tropics are already too hot to efficiently grow grain, and those places where grain is produced today are already at optimal growing temperature — which means even a small warming will push them down the slope of declining productivity. And you can’t easily move croplands north a few hundred miles, because yields in places like remote Canada and Russia are limited by the quality of soil there; it takes many centuries for the planet to produce optimally fertile dirt.

Drought might be an even bigger problem than heat, with some of the world’s most arable land turning quickly to desert. Precipitation is notoriously hard to model, yet predictions for later this century are basically unanimous: unprecedented droughts nearly everywhere food is today produced. By 2080, without dramatic reductions in emissions, southern Europe will be in permanent extreme drought, much worse than the American dust bowl ever was. The same will be true in Iraq and Syria and much of the rest of the Middle East; some of the most densely populated parts of Australia, Africa, and South America; and the breadbasket regions of China. None of these places, which today supply much of the world’s food, will be reliable sources of any. As for the original dust bowl: The droughts in the American plains and Southwest would not just be worse than in the 1930s, a 2015 NASA study predicted, but worse than any droughts in a thousand years — and that includes those that struck between 1100 and 1300, which “dried up all the rivers East of the Sierra Nevada mountains” and may have been responsible for the death of the Anasazi civilization.


Remember, we do not live in a world without hunger as it is. Far from it: Most estimates put the number of undernourished at 800 million globally. In case you haven’t heard, this spring has already brought an unprecedented quadruple famine to Africa and the Middle East; the U.N. has warned that separate starvation events in Somalia, South Sudan, Nigeria, and Yemen could kill 20 million this year alone.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 13:51 
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This is quite a sobering read:

http://bright-green.org/2017/07/22/as-t ... e-morning/

Pointing at Trump for pulling out of the Paris agreement might make the rest of us in the western world feel like we're on the moral high ground but it's absolute bullshit.

I'm unsure how it can even happen but something needs to change, drastically and quickly. But I guess everyone will be too busy dealing with shitshows like Brexit and Trump to actually do anything for at least the next ten years.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:25 
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I read all of that. Quite depressing really.

Maybe it'd be best if humanity were extinguished, the next lot might do better.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:45 
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Reading that just made me realise how little we're doing. There seems to be this idea that windmills, electric cars and reusable shopping bags are going to somehow rescue the situation. When in reality people are going to have to make rather more sweeping changes to the way they live. But even if they want to no politician can really tell it how it is because then they'll just vote for whatever shameless bullshitter tells them that they can still eat steaks all the time, drive ridiculous cars and take as many foreign holidays as they want and that somehow it will still all be fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:33 
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So I should feel bad that my next holiday will see me taking my ridiculous car overseas to eat steaks, and add hundreds of food miles to the large volume of beer I bring back?


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:34 
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BikNorton wrote:
So I should feel bad that my next holiday will see me taking my ridiculous car overseas to eat steaks, and add hundreds of food miles to the large volume of beer I bring back?

If you don't have kids, your carbon is thoroughly offset.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:38 
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Sitting balls-back folder

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Woohoo!


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:41 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
BikNorton wrote:
So I should feel bad that my next holiday will see me taking my ridiculous car overseas to eat steaks, and add hundreds of food miles to the large volume of beer I bring back?

If you don't have kids, your carbon is thoroughly offset.

Or a dog.

Food miles can be a load of bullshit, though. For instance, it uses more resources to grow tomatoes in the UK than it does to grow and import them from Spain.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:44 
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Sitting balls-back folder

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I don't have a dog. Yet.

When I do it will be a massive one, so I'd better get my driving steak holidays in soon.

The guilt-free ones anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:48 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
BikNorton wrote:
So I should feel bad that my next holiday will see me taking my ridiculous car overseas to eat steaks, and add hundreds of food miles to the large volume of beer I bring back?

If you don't have kids, your carbon is thoroughly offset.

Well we're all someone's kids so in that case we're all fine because our carbon footprints belong to our parents. :S


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:50 
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markg wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
BikNorton wrote:
So I should feel bad that my next holiday will see me taking my ridiculous car overseas to eat steaks, and add hundreds of food miles to the large volume of beer I bring back?

If you don't have kids, your carbon is thoroughly offset.

Well we're all someone's kids so in that case we're all fine because our carbon footprints belong to our parents. :S


Orphans aren't

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:52 
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Their carbon footprint is offset by the fact that their parents are no longer consuming any resources.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:52 
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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:54 
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I suppose one answer would be to just kill some random stranger and then you could spend the rest of your life untroubled by guilt.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 13:02 
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markg wrote:
I suppose one answer would be to just kill some random stranger and then you could spend the rest of your life untroubled by guilt.

Depends how far you have to drive to kill them.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 13:07 
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It's ok, I went on the train.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 13:12 
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Guys, any chance of one last spin in the GT4 and a bloody good steak before humanity is extinguished and the lizard men take over in a billion more years of evolution?

Ta! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 13:17 
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Grim... wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
BikNorton wrote:
So I should feel bad that my next holiday will see me taking my ridiculous car overseas to eat steaks, and add hundreds of food miles to the large volume of beer I bring back?

If you don't have kids, your carbon is thoroughly offset.

Or a dog.


What's the carbon footprint of cat ownership?


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 13:17 
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We won't begrudge you your last supper, old timer.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 13:18 
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Bamba wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
BikNorton wrote:
So I should feel bad that my next holiday will see me taking my ridiculous car overseas to eat steaks, and add hundreds of food miles to the large volume of beer I bring back?

If you don't have kids, your carbon is thoroughly offset.

Or a dog.


What's the carbon footprint of cat ownership?

Cats reduce emissions.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 13:19 
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Cavey wrote:
Guys, any chance of one last spin in the GT4 and a bloody good steak before humanity is extinguished and the lizard men take over in a billion more years of evolution?

Ta! :)

Based on nothing, but I'd imagine your Hog is more of a carbon-farter than your GT4.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 13:21 
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Surely not, carbon emissions are directly related to mpg aren't they?


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 13:28 
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Grim... wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Guys, any chance of one last spin in the GT4 and a bloody good steak before humanity is extinguished and the lizard men take over in a billion more years of evolution?

Ta! :)

Based on nothing, but I'd imagine your Hog is more of a carbon-farter than your GT4.

Heh! I thought definitely no, but the 1200cc Evo engine (mine is an 1800cc 110B Screamin' Eagle) puts out 115g/km:

http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_GB/Mo ... specs.html

I can't find a figure for my engine but it's much larger and more powerful, has been stage 1 tuned and all cats chiseled out as well/fuel input maximised, so could conceivably be double (the GT4 punches out 238g/km. For shame!!!11)

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 13:29 
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markg wrote:
Surely not, carbon emissions are directly related to mpg aren't they?


Manages 45mpg on a good day :)
(The GT4 is 17mpg at best, single figures when raced)

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 13:34 
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Zardoz wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
BikNorton wrote:
So I should feel bad that my next holiday will see me taking my ridiculous car overseas to eat steaks, and add hundreds of food miles to the large volume of beer I bring back?

If you don't have kids, your carbon is thoroughly offset.

Or a dog.


What's the carbon footprint of cat ownership?

Cats reduce emissions.

I noticed this. Bravo.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:58 
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https://www.wired.com/story/more-eviden ... al_twitter

Quote:
Two years ago, Inside Climate News and Los Angeles Times investigations found that while Exxon Mobil internally acknowledged that climate change is man-made and serious, it publicly manufactured doubt about the science. Exxon has been trying unsuccessfully to smother this slow-burning PR crisis ever since, arguing the findings were “deliberately cherry picked statements.” But the company’s problems have grown to include probes of its business practices by the New York and Massachusetts attorneys general and the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Now, science historian Naomi Oreskes and Harvard researcher Geoffrey Supran have published the first peer-reviewed, comprehensive analysis of Exxon’s climate communications that adds more heft to these charges. Exxon dared the public to “read all of these documents and make up your own mind,” in a company blog post in 2015. The new paper, “Assessing ExxonMobil’s Climate Change Communications,” in the journal Environmental Research Letters, takes up the challenge. Oreskes and Supran systematically analyze nearly 40 years of Exxon’s scientific research, reports, internal documents, and advertisements, and find a deep disconnect between how the company directly communicated climate change and its internal memos and scientific studies.

“The issue of taking things out of context or cherry-picking data is an important one, and one all historians and journalists deal with,” Oreskes tells Mother Jones. “When Exxon Mobil accuses journalists of cherry-picking, there is a way we can address that; there are analyses we can do to avoid these issues. Well, if you think the LA Times is cherry-picking [examples], we’ll look at all of them. Nobody can say we are selecting things out of context.”

Their content analysis examines how 187 company documents treated climate change from 1977 through 2014. Researchers found that of the documents that address the causes of climate change, 83 percent of its peer-reviewed scientific literature and 80 percent of its internal documents said it was real and man-made, while the opposite was true of the ads. The researchers analyzed ads published in the New York Times between 1989 and 2004. In those ads, 81 percent expressed doubt about the scientific consensus, tending to emphasize the “uncertainty’ and “knowledge gap,” while just 12 percent affirmed the science.

The same pattern holds for how Exxon has addressed the seriousness of the consequences of climate change. Downplaying the impacts is another tactic climate deniers tend to use to call for more delays in implementing policies that curb fossil fuel use. Sixty percent of Exxon’s peer-reviewed papers and 53 percent of its internal documents acknowledge serious impacts—a 1982 internal document lists flooding and sea level rise and a 2002 paper lists coral reef bleaching and the disintegration of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet among them—but Exxon’s ads were more likely to claim, “The sky is not falling.”
Oreskes and Supran write that Exxon “contributed quietly to the science and loudly to raising doubts about it.”


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 22:17 
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https://www.cnet.com/news/humans-respon ... 05-10aaa0j

Quote:
Humans responsible for heating the Earth, US report says

In the largest climate science report ever published, the nation's top scientists say climate change is real, and humans are the cause.

The Earth is hotter, climate change is real, and humans are the most likely cause, according to a report released Friday by the US government.

The federally mandated Climate Science Special Report is the first of two volumes prepared by the country's top scientists for the president, Congress and the public. The report was prepared by hundreds of scientists, who examined more than 1,500 scientific studies and reports to write it. This is the fourth National Climate Assessment, which must be published every four years, according to the Global Change Research Act of 1990.

"The Climate Science Special Report lays out the most recent scientific evidence of climate change, once again confirming that climate change is real, it's happening now, and human activity is the primary cause," Rush Holt, CEO of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, said in a statement.

The last three years have been the warmest on record, according to the report, which expects climate-related extremes to continue. The federal report also makes clear that human activity is responsible for climate change. It was peer reviewed by the National Academy of Sciences. The White House Office of Science and Technology signed off on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 22:22 
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Quote:
This is the fourth National Climate Assessment, which must be published every four years, according to the Global Change Research Act of 1990.


Objection: maths.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 16:43 
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Quote:
Losing Earth: The Decade We
Almost Stopped Climate Change


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... &smtyp=cur


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 23:58 
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Can you dig it?

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It's dry here in NSW, so so dry and we aren't in a warm period by any means. Everything is brown and dry and dying. I can't remember when we last saw good, heavy, consistent rain.

It's obviously causing a lot of problems all over the place (farming, wildlife, fire risks). There's a lot of concern about farming and livestock, and efforts made to raise money or even 'buy a bale' for a farmer. There's also a growing nationalism - 'why are we sending money abroad to help others instead of spending it on our own farmers?', that sort of thing. It's quite an uncomfortable feeling, like people are wanting to withdraw, close borders, and also prop up a system that is maybe, really, unsustainable.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:49 
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As far back as the 90s, Exxon was using internal climate change models to calculate how much taller to build oil derrick platforms (to compensate for sea rises) and how much longer the drilling season would be in the Arctic.

https://twitter.com/buttpraxis/status/1 ... 5729273856




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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 18:25 
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Fuck.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:05 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Have you guys seen what's going on in Spain? Looks absolutely devastating! :(

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:08 
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Isn't that lovely?

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https://youtu.be/3w_QPVXr24s



There's some of it, but some of parent's friends are posting really bad stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:40 
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I met another delightful older (even than me) gent here in Canada the other day. Talking about the hurricane that was about to hit East Canada, he chipped in with "Been happening for years. It's not climate change. That's just a tax!"

They, like the US (and the UK?) have a real problem with older, single males who believe that sort of stuff and, when they get onto it, head for rantsville. The last one I met was telling me all about Tommy Robinson and the 'real news' on Youtube.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:18 
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Isn't that lovely?

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I meant videos of really bad flooding!

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:19 
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Gogmagog

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Location: Cheshire
MrsA's pulled Fortnite from school to attend the protests today. Nice day for it. Fornite's been briefed ("stay away from the SWP, anyone with new boots is a copper's nark, ball bearings are a suitable replacement for caltrops when shit goes sideways") and I'm proud that MrsA has done it. Overwatch is going as well.

I am also really, really, over the moon that it is happening and being driven by a sixteen year old who is bloody marvellous.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:34 
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MaliA wrote:
MrsA's pulled Fortnite from school to attend the protests today. Nice day for it. Fornite's been briefed ("stay away from the SWP, anyone with new boots is a copper's nark, ball bearings are a suitable replacement for caltrops when shit goes sideways") and I'm proud that MrsA has done it. Overwatch is going as well.

I am also really, really, over the moon that it is happening and being driven by a sixteen year old who is bloody marvellous.

I'm glad that it's happening but it's also utterly heartbreaking. It's too late and we've already fucked it for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:30 
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MaliA wrote:
MrsA's pulled Fortnite from school to attend the protests today. Nice day for it. Fornite's been briefed ("stay away from the SWP, anyone with new boots is a copper's nark, ball bearings are a suitable replacement for caltrops when shit goes sideways") and I'm proud that MrsA has done it. Overwatch is going as well.

I am also really, really, over the moon that it is happening and being driven by a sixteen year old who is bloody marvellous.


Excellent stuff. Enjoy the day.

Are you making placards?

And yes, I think she's brilliant.


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 19:50 
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Sitting balls-back folder

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A load of people made the climate better today by blocking bits and pieces of the roads across the river in Worcester today, bravely forcing thousands of drivers to idle their cars all morning


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 20:13 
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Gogmagog

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Location: Cheshire
Good work, Turner


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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 20:19 
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I guess if the road was blocked and the cars weren’t moving they’d have turned their engines off?

There’s a difficult line between making a point of noticeable protest and adding to the problem you are protesting. I see this action as more aimed towards industry and government, because little changes help, but carrying metal drinking straws isn’t going to save the planet without big change happening alongside it.

There was one IGer big in the handmade clothing world going on about her metal straw and how she carries it everywhere, has two for her luggage, travelling to Milan, then Japan for a meeting, then to sign some deal in the US, carefully posed pictures of her and her straw on all these jet flights.

I was just looking at group all in costume on IG, for the protest. Visually arresting, but not costumes you could wear again. All ripped cloth and huge swathes of fabric, and I can see from the way it’s catching the light and moving that they are all handmade fabrics using synthetic dyes.

I dunno.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 20:20 
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MaliA wrote:
Good work, Turner

Made from a case of wine. That’s like having MrsA’s signature on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Climate change
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 20:26 
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JBR wrote:
I met another delightful older (even than me) gent here in Canada the other day.

Cras wrote:
Objection: maths.


Quoting these two things one after the other for no reason at all.

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