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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:51 
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Gogmagog

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Craster wrote:
As reluctant as I am to make assumptions, by doing this he's effectively just walked away from his entire lifetime's accomplishments, so that rather suggests he knew he'd be convicted.

Yeah. The Guardian took the line that you have to be a master strategist to win the Tour de France, doped or no; this "I'm walking away from the legal hassles for my family's sake" is exactly what a master strategist who knew he was about the get caught would do to save whatever he could of his professional reputation. Obviously none of us know, but to my mind Occam's Razor says he's a cheat (as were, it seems, practically all of them).


Some weren't/aren't. I hope. I really, really, hope.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:52 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
but to my mind Occam's Razor says he's a cheat (as were, it seems, practically all of them).

You're probably right. How could someone clean dominate the sport when practically everyone else around them was doping?

It's sad, because his ascent from cancer survivor to sport superstar was an amazing story. I'd give my left bollock just to win the Tour even once.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:55 
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Anyway, time to look forward; cycling is cleaner now, and if someone who is so anti-doping as Wiggins can win it, most of the field must now be clean.

I hope.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:57 
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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
but to my mind Occam's Razor says he's a cheat (as were, it seems, practically all of them).

You're probably right. How could someone clean dominate the sport when practically everyone else around them was doping?

It's sad, because his ascent from cancer survivor to sport superstar was an amazing story. I'd give my left bollock just to win the Tour even once.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't easy, even with drugs. And anyway if others around him were at it then his achievement still stands really.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:59 
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MaliA wrote:
Livestrong has been a for-profit company, not a charity for a while, if my recollections are correct.

Quote:
The Lance Armstrong Foundation (LAF) is a United States 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization that provides support for people affected by cancer, founded in 1997 by cancer survivor and champion cyclist Lance Armstrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Armstrong_Foundation

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:00 
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markg wrote:
I'm pretty sure it wasn't easy, even with drugs. And anyway if others around him were at it then his achievement still stands really.


Oh, I don't deny that he's still an amazing athlete. But the 'cycling star, hero, survivor' gleam he had on him is now irrevocably tarnished.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:05 
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Gogmagog

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And a bit of a cunt.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:05 
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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Livestrong has been a for-profit company, not a charity for a while, if my recollections are correct.

Quote:
The Lance Armstrong Foundation (LAF) is a United States 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization that provides support for people affected by cancer, founded in 1997 by cancer survivor and champion cyclist Lance Armstrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Armstrong_Foundation


There was something with demandmedia to do with it, which has probably thrown me down the wrong trail.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:15 
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Somebody mentioned the fastest times up Alpe d'Huez.

It's an interesting list....

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:16 
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Curiosity wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
Did he fail any tests?


Apparently not at the time, but part of the allegations are that he DID test positive, but that the Lance Armstrong Show was big enough to hush it all up.



How can one person for the drugs testers to not report it...

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:18 
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Quote:
37' 35" Marco Pantani 1997 Italy
37' 36" Lance Armstrong 2004 United States
38' 00" Marco Pantani 1994 Italy
38' 01" Lance Armstrong 2001 United States
38' 04" Marco Pantani 1995 Italy
38' 23" Jan Ullrich 1997 Germany
38' 34" Floyd Landis 2006 United States
38' 35" Andreas Klöden 2006 Germany
38' 37" Jan Ullrich 2004 Germany
39' 02" Richard Virenque 1997 France


Quick quiz! What's the conenction between some of thses riders?

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:19 
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MaliA wrote:
Somebody mentioned the fastest times up Alpe d'Huez.

It's an interesting list....

Nobody has gone quite so fast for a few years.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:19 
They all ride bicycles


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:20 
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Gogmagog

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KovacsC wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
Did he fail any tests?


Apparently not at the time, but part of the allegations are that he DID test positive, but that the Lance Armstrong Show was big enough to hush it all up.



How can one person for the drugs testers to not report it...


In Millar's book, he recounts how he'd been taking a banned substance as he'd "hurt his ankle" so had a doctor's note to explain it at drugs testing. At the dope check, the tester, on Millar's exit, remarked "So,how is the ankle?" with a look which Millar said "I know that you know that i know but there's nothing I can do".

I feel sad over all this.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:21 
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MaliA wrote:
Quote:
37' 35" Marco Pantani 1997 Italy
37' 36" Lance Armstrong 2004 United States
38' 00" Marco Pantani 1994 Italy
38' 01" Lance Armstrong 2001 United States
38' 04" Marco Pantani 1995 Italy
38' 23" Jan Ullrich 1997 Germany
38' 34" Floyd Landis 2006 United States
38' 35" Andreas Klöden 2006 Germany
38' 37" Jan Ullrich 2004 Germany
39' 02" Richard Virenque 1997 France


Quick quiz! What's the conenction between some of thses riders?

What's even more astonishing is that in 2004 that stage was an individual time trial. Look at number two on the list. :S

-edit- although I suppose it doesn't make that much difference in a climb.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:22 
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MaliA wrote:
Quote:
37' 35" Marco Pantani 1997 Italy
37' 36" Lance Armstrong 2004 United States
38' 00" Marco Pantani 1994 Italy
38' 01" Lance Armstrong 2001 United States
38' 04" Marco Pantani 1995 Italy
38' 23" Jan Ullrich 1997 Germany
38' 34" Floyd Landis 2006 United States
38' 35" Andreas Klöden 2006 Germany
38' 37" Jan Ullrich 2004 Germany
39' 02" Richard Virenque 1997 France


Quick quiz! What's the conenction between some of thses riders?



Based on that table, they're all really, really tall.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:23 
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Craster wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Quote:
37' 35" Marco Pantani 1997 Italy
37' 36" Lance Armstrong 2004 United States
38' 00" Marco Pantani 1994 Italy
38' 01" Lance Armstrong 2001 United States
38' 04" Marco Pantani 1995 Italy
38' 23" Jan Ullrich 1997 Germany
38' 34" Floyd Landis 2006 United States
38' 35" Andreas Klöden 2006 Germany
38' 37" Jan Ullrich 2004 Germany
39' 02" Richard Virenque 1997 France


Quick quiz! What's the conenction between some of thses riders?



Based on that table, they're all really, really tall.

Or not quite at right angles.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:25 
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for us cycling tifosi this actualdoesn't change that much.. we're knew this, and gave it its place in that era of cycling.... taking of his victories is quite ridiculous IMO

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:30 
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Gogmagog

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I like to live in perpetual denial, then get upset when it rears its head again.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:00 
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romanista wrote:
for us cycling tifosi this actualdoesn't change that much.. we're knew this, and gave it its place in that era of cycling.... taking of his victories is quite ridiculous IMO


:this: Quite, I mean who are they going to give those victories to?

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:02 
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Morte wrote:
romanista wrote:
for us cycling tifosi this actualdoesn't change that much.. we're knew this, and gave it its place in that era of cycling.... taking of his victories is quite ridiculous IMO


:this: Quite, I mean who are they going to give those victories to?

I suspect no one.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:49 
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That guardien piece has thrown up lots of interesting lnks. Like this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 13:01 
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MaliA wrote:
That guardien piece has thrown up lots of interesting lnks. Like this one.


Wow...just read up to the part about Armstrong's sample results, that's pretty damning stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 13:05 
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MaliA wrote:
That guardien piece has thrown up lots of interesting lnks. Like this one.

Fucking hell. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 14:27 
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:shrug: no real surprise is it? Even bloody amateur roadies dope.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 16:01 
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The encouraging thing in all this, though, is that over time it is possible to clean up sports, mainly because they keep your samples from previous years. Sure, you might dope knowing you could get away with it this year, but knowing that in 4 years time they'd catch you and devalue your entire achievement? Much less likely. Great swathes* of throwers dropped out of the olympics just before they started, on the announcement that their 2004 samples were due to be tested. Surely no different for cycling, but the big problem there seems to have been that more or less everyone was at it, so competing without was almost impossible. That atmosphere has shifted, and the sport's much the better for it.

*(may be exagerrated from "a few", but definitely the world leaders)


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 16:01 
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MaliA wrote:
That guardien piece has thrown up lots of interesting lnks. Like this one.


I can't believe I just read 13,000 words about something I thought I didn't give a shit about. That was fascinating.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 16:14 
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Malabelm wrote:
MaliA wrote:
That guardien piece has thrown up lots of interesting lnks. Like this one.


I can't believe I just read 13,000 words about something I thought I didn't give a shit about. That was fascinating.

I know, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 16:25 
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Unpossible!

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This is why we don't have heroes. They're only human and have human failings.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a wristband to melt.

:'(


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:28 
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Death threats and Hamilton says some more stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:42 
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Cycling has a long way to go. If Bradley Wiggins tested positive and had his title stripped, would anyone be surprised? Even with all the gum flapping that he's done about being clean, no. I wouldn't be surprised. That's what cycling has to fight against for the next 20 years or so.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:45 
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Right. Well. Hmm.

Quote:
According to two witnesses, the US Postal team doctor Pedro Celaya (who is charged by Usada and will face a hearing later this year) was thrown into a panic at the 1998 Tour de France by the Festina scandal, in which the French team was caught red-handed with a vast medicine cabinet of illegal drugs. Celaya flushed tens of thousands of dollars' worth of drugs down the toilet – though this would not have been much help if the French police had raided the team, because the toilet was in a camper van.



is the only positive thing to get out of this report.

Jesus.

Only need to get to the bottom of why SKY has employed a certain doctor as well, now, haven't we?

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:40 
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I'd recommend reading the report on the Armstrong affair. It's quite incredible. What an absolute cunt.

Quote:
As set forth in the affidavit of Tyler Hamilton, after Mr. Hamilton had testified about Mr. Armstrong’s doping and after Mr. Hamilton’s cooperation with federal law enforcement officials
had been publicly reported, on June 11, 2011, Mr. Hamilton was physically accosted by Mr. Armstrong in an Aspen, Colorado restaurant.819 Mr. Hamilton has testified that in connection
with this altercation Mr. Armstrong said, “When you’re on the witness stand, we are going to fucking tear you apart. You are going to look like a fucking idiot.”820 Hamilton further testified
that Armstrong said, “I’m going to make your life a living . . . fucking . . . hell.”821 Mr. Armstrong’s statements and actions plainly constitute an act of attempted witness intimidation.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 13:31 
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Team SKY should have kept their mouth shut.

Quote:
British cyclist Alex Dowsett believes Lance Armstrong remains "a legend of the sport" despite the doping accusations against the American.

The United States Anti-Doping Agency banned Armstrong for life and stripped him of his seven Tour de France titles.

Team Sky rider Dowsett, 24, said: "He is still a legend of the sport. A guy who had cancer came back and won the Tour de France.

"I think it's not really important and I really don't think it matters."


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 18:17 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... rty_Truth/

EDIT: Podcast link, if yies want to listen to it elsewhere. http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/5li ... -2155a.mp3

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:59 
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All Tour titles gone, and now people want their money back. Oh my.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:09 
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Oops! Silly cheaty Lance!

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 22:41 
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MaliA wrote:
All Tour titles gone, and now people want their money back. Oh my.

That's more like it. Stripping him of titles ain't shit if he still has his squillions of dollars in ill-gotten gains.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:43 
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2013 route looks tough.

I'd put money on Alberto to win it, Froome comes in second after losing time on the antepenultimate day. Cavendish loses interest about halfway through and Wiggins is in 10-20th.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 13:07 
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MaliA wrote:
2013 route looks tough.

I'd put money on Alberto to win it, Froome comes in second after losing time on the antepenultimate day. Cavendish loses interest about halfway through and Wiggins is in 10-20th.

I'm touched by your faith but I wouldn't be too hasty with your money until I've fully recovered from the cottage cold at least.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 13:29 
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Superb! Gap is only a fourteen and a half hour drive from me! and I can take in Annecy on the way home!

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 13:31 
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That's a long way to drive for a sweater.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 13:36 
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Curiosity wrote:
That's a long way to drive for a sweater.


Shush, you. I'm planning on how to sell this idea to MrsA. A pitch that isn't "We'll drive for 16 hours, sleep in the car, the cyclists go past, we all shout "hurrah" and go the 16 hours home".

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 13:51 
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Romantic weekend away?

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 13:57 
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KovacsC wrote:
Romantic weekend away?


Thanks, but I'd rather go with MrsA.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 13:49 
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interesting interview with Landis

Quote:
I tried to be assuring but there was no way I could because I knew at that moment that LeLangue said “you” that my life was fucked and would never be the same. I was cold and sweating and unable to make any decision but I did my best to promise Amber that we’d both be okay, and I’d do whatever it would take to make sure of that, but I have never felt anything like that. I wasn’t okay for about a month. I didn’t sleep at all for at least two weeks; I would just lie there awake. And the longer it went, the worst it got and the harder it was for me to make decisions. I couldn’t think clearly.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 14:56 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Very interesting. Very long though, make sure you have an hour or so free when you start reading!


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 14:57 
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I stopped after: "I scanned his arms and legs and the crack of his ass"


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:06 
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Gogmagog

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TdF starts in Yorkshire

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2012
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 16:27 
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Gogmagog

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Splinters in your arse if you continue doing that, sir.

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MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


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You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen. RIP, MrC.

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