Be Excellent To Each Other

And, you know, party on. Dude.

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:57 
User avatar
ugvm'er at heart...

Joined: 4th Mar, 2010
Posts: 22266
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22421185

What do we think about this then? The possibility of buying a 3D printer and printing out your own gun.
That's a bad thing, right? Isn't it?

I don't think we should be banning 3D printers because of it, but once pandora's box has been opened, why wouldn't everyone who had one print a gun? Even if they made that illegal. Would you? I know I probably would...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:00 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16558
Not sure how significant this is really. The ability to cobble together a shitty gun that will fire a single shot doesn't really require a 3D printer.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:01 
SupaMod
User avatar
"Praisebot"

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17019
Location: Parts unknown
What they need to do is make it illegal to produce and sell bullets to the public. That would sort it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:04 
User avatar
ugvm'er at heart...

Joined: 4th Mar, 2010
Posts: 22266
markg wrote:
Not sure how significant this is really. The ability to cobble together a shitty gun that will fire a single shot doesn't really require a 3D printer.


True, but that takes effort. If I have a 3D printer and you tell me all I have to do is click a button and get a gun at the end of it, I'll click that button.

Plus, this is the first, there will be more, each more sophisticated than the last. I wouldn't bet against a semi-automatic 3D printed gun in the future at the least.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:07 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16558
I dunno man, proper guns needs loads of metal bits really. Even this one needs a metal barrel and firing pin. I don't think that anytime soon it will be just as easy as printing a picture of a gun.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:08 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48642
Location: Cheshire
Might need some seriously strong plastics to cope with shooting a bullet. or lots of bullets.

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:11 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 14144
Location: Shropshire, UK
markg wrote:
I dunno man, proper guns needs loads of metal bits really. Even this one needs a metal barrel and firing pin. I don't think that anytime soon it will be just as easy as printing a picture of a gun.

Only the firing pin is metal in this one, isn't it?

The story brings to mind "In The Line of Fire" with Clint Eastwood and John Malkovich.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:22 
User avatar
ugvm'er at heart...

Joined: 4th Mar, 2010
Posts: 22266
GazChap wrote:
markg wrote:
I dunno man, proper guns needs loads of metal bits really. Even this one needs a metal barrel and firing pin. I don't think that anytime soon it will be just as easy as printing a picture of a gun.

Only the firing pin is metal in this one, isn't it?


Aye, everything else is 3D printed in plastic.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:28 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16558
Ah right, I think I'd read somewhere that the barrels were interchangeable and for some reason assumed they were metal.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:31 
User avatar
Excellent Painter

Joined: 30th Apr, 2008
Posts: 7315
Location: Behind you
The more pertinent question is how much you value your hands? I wouldn't want to fire a gun I'd printed.

_________________
twitter || website
Malibu Stacy. Everybody's favourite back seat driver


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:40 
User avatar
Heavy Metal Tough Guy

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 6510
markg wrote:
Ah right, I think I'd read somewhere that the barrels were interchangeable and for some reason assumed they were metal.

I'm assuming the barrels are interchangeable because they get shredded after a few rounds. I wonder what the accuracy on a short-barrelled, smooth-bore, relatively low tolerance home made gun is.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:42 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48642
Location: Cheshire
Squirt wrote:
markg wrote:
Ah right, I think I'd read somewhere that the barrels were interchangeable and for some reason assumed they were metal.

I'm assuming the barrels are interchangeable because they get shredded after a few rounds. I wonder what the accuracy on a short-barrelled, smooth-bore, relatively low tolerance home made gun is.


Paging kern. I'd say 30 feet, based on the paintball guns I have used.

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:43 
User avatar
ugvm'er at heart...

Joined: 4th Mar, 2010
Posts: 22266
Squirt wrote:
markg wrote:
Ah right, I think I'd read somewhere that the barrels were interchangeable and for some reason assumed they were metal.

I'm assuming the barrels are interchangeable because they get shredded after a few rounds. I wonder what the accuracy on a short-barrelled, smooth-bore, relatively low tolerance home made gun is.


Buy me a 3D printer and i'll tell you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:45 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16558
Squirt wrote:
markg wrote:
Ah right, I think I'd read somewhere that the barrels were interchangeable and for some reason assumed they were metal.

I'm assuming the barrels are interchangeable because they get shredded after a few rounds.

That and so you can use differnt size bullets I think.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:49 
User avatar

Joined: 12th Apr, 2008
Posts: 17768
Location: Oxford
MaliA wrote:
Squirt wrote:
markg wrote:
Ah right, I think I'd read somewhere that the barrels were interchangeable and for some reason assumed they were metal.

I'm assuming the barrels are interchangeable because they get shredded after a few rounds. I wonder what the accuracy on a short-barrelled, smooth-bore, relatively low tolerance home made gun is.


Paging kern. I'd say 30 feet, based on the paintball guns I have used.


'Not very far' I'd guess, assuming the ball leaves from the intended hole in the intended direction. When you think that the 1842 Springfield musket - the last Springfield smoothbore - has a range of 100-300 feet, and probably only effective at 50-100 feet, I doubt there would be much difference. Firing .69, of course, so calibre would have to be factored in.

As for legalities, given the nature of the laws over here, does anyone know when some piping and a sparking device would become a 'shotgun' and thus covered by the various Firearms Acts?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:52 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69507
Location: Your Mum
Kern wrote:
As for legalities, given the nature of the laws over here, does anyone know when some piping and a sparking device would become a 'shotgun' and thus covered by the various Firearms Acts?

Pretty much instantly, I think. The definitions are loose enough to cover nearly everything - it basically needs to shoot things and not be rifled.

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:02 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48642
Location: Cheshire
DBSnappa wrote:
The more pertinent question is how much you value your hands? I wouldn't want to fire a gun I'd printed.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20 ... -guns-user

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:04 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 14144
Location: Shropshire, UK
Grim... wrote:
Kern wrote:
As for legalities, given the nature of the laws over here, does anyone know when some piping and a sparking device would become a 'shotgun' and thus covered by the various Firearms Acts?

Pretty much instantly, I think. The definitions are loose enough to cover nearly everything - it basically needs to shoot things and not be rifled.

:this:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:07 
User avatar

Joined: 12th Apr, 2008
Posts: 17768
Location: Oxford
Sounds about right.
So anyone 'printing' a gun just for the hell of it would be instantly breaking the law over here.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:08 
User avatar

Joined: 12th Apr, 2008
Posts: 17768
Location: Oxford
MaliA wrote:
DBSnappa wrote:
The more pertinent question is how much you value your hands? I wouldn't want to fire a gun I'd printed.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20 ... -guns-user


That's why we have a proof house!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:09 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48642
Location: Cheshire
Kern wrote:
MaliA wrote:
DBSnappa wrote:
The more pertinent question is how much you value your hands? I wouldn't want to fire a gun I'd printed.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20 ... -guns-user


That's why we have a proof house!


Learn something new every day.

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:10 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 14144
Location: Shropshire, UK
Kern wrote:
Sounds about right.
So anyone 'printing' a gun just for the hell of it would be instantly breaking the law over here.

Pretty sure they'd be breaking the law over in the US as well, although maybe the laws regarding manufacturing firearms over there are more concerned with fully automatic firearms. I can never remember.

The guy in the article apparently got a licence from the ATF though, so I imagine it would have been illegal otherwise.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:11 
User avatar
ugvm'er at heart...

Joined: 4th Mar, 2010
Posts: 22266
GazChap wrote:
Kern wrote:
Sounds about right.
So anyone 'printing' a gun just for the hell of it would be instantly breaking the law over here.

Pretty sure they'd be breaking the law over in the US as well, although maybe the laws regarding manufacturing firearms over there are more concerned with fully automatic firearms. I can never remember.

The guy in the article apparently got a licence from the ATF though, so I imagine it would have been illegal otherwise.


As I understand it, it isn't illegal in the US to make one. He needed the licence so he could sell and distribute.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:44 
User avatar
Excellent Member

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 8019
Location: Cardiff
I think I'll skip the gun and move straight on to the 3D plastic Burt-Tank for my home defence.

_________________
"Peter you've lost the NEWS!"

Bored? Why not look at some pretty pictures on my photography blog? Here: http://petetakespictures.com

Come & See My Flickery Pics Here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nervouspete/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 14:16 
User avatar
Excellent Member

Joined: 27th Sep, 2009
Posts: 876
Let's cut through the media guff and read something sensible on the matter:

http://hackaday.com/2013/05/06/the-firs ... dont-care/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 14:27 
User avatar
ugvm'er at heart...

Joined: 4th Mar, 2010
Posts: 22266
Four_Candles wrote:
Let's cut through the media guff and read something sensible on the matter:

http://hackaday.com/2013/05/06/the-firs ... dont-care/


From a US perspective that is. His argument basically "if you want a hand gun it is cheaper and easier to go and buy one rather than print it", which is true for the US, but not for other countries.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:10 
8-Bit Champion
User avatar
Two heads are better than one

Joined: 16th Apr, 2008
Posts: 14489
And now the US government have tried to have them taken down - cause thats how the internet works :-)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22478310

Quote:
US government orders removal of Defcad 3D-gun designs

The US government has demanded designs for a 3D-printed gun be taken offline.

The order to remove the blueprints for the plastic gun comes after they were downloaded more than 100,000 times.

The US State Department wrote to the gun's designer, Defense Distributed, suggesting publishing them online may breach arms-control regulations.

Although the files have been removed from the company's Defcad site, it is not clear whether this will stop people accessing the blueprints.

They were being hosted by the Mega online service and may still reside on its servers.

Also, many links to copies of the blueprints have been uploaded to file-sharing site the Pirate Bay, making them widely available. The Pirate Bay has also publicised its links to the files via social news site Reddit suggesting many more people will get hold of the blueprints.

The Office of Defense Trade Controls Compliance wrote to Defense Distributed founder Cody Wilson demanding the designs be "removed from public access" until he could prove he had not broken laws governing shipping weapons overseas by putting the files online and letting people outside the US download them.
Explosive force

"We have to comply," Mr Wilson told news magazine Forbes in an interview.

But he added the State Department's fears were ungrounded, as Defense Distributed had been set up specifically to meet requirements that exempted it from the arms-control regulations.

He welcomed the US government's intervention, saying it would highlight the issue of whether it was possible to stop the spread of 3D-printed weapons.

Unlike conventional weapons, the printed gun - called the Liberator by its creators - is made out of plastic on a printer. Many engineering firms and manufacturers use these machines to test prototypes before starting large-scale production.

While desktop 3D printers are becoming more popular, Defense Distributed used an industrial 3D printer that cost more than £5,000 to produce its gun. This was able to use high-density plastic that could withstand and channel the explosive force involved in firing a bullet.

To make the Liberator, Mr Wilson had to get a licence to make and sell the weapon from the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The Bureau told the BBC that any American could make a gun for their own use, even on a 3D printer, but selling it required a licence.

Mr Wilson, who describes himself as a crypto-anarchist, said the project to create a printed gun and make it widely available was all "about liberty".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:15 
User avatar

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 1883
zaphod79 wrote:
US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Best workplace ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:17 
User avatar
Excellent Member

Joined: 25th Jul, 2010
Posts: 11128
Quote:
The Office of Defense Trade Controls Compliance wrote to Defense Distributed founder Cody Wilson demanding the designs be "removed from public access" until he could prove he had not broken laws


8) Isn't it supposed to work the other way round?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:19 
User avatar

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 1883
Bamba wrote:
Quote:
The Office of Defense Trade Controls Compliance wrote to Defense Distributed founder Cody Wilson demanding the designs be "removed from public access" until he could prove he had not broken laws


8) Isn't it supposed to work the other way round?

I thought :this: too.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 17:52 
User avatar
Paws for thought

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17154
Location: Just Outside That London, England, Europe
Bamba wrote:
Quote:
The Office of Defense Trade Controls Compliance wrote to Defense Distributed founder Cody Wilson demanding the designs be "removed from public access" until he could prove he had not broken laws


8) Isn't it supposed to work the other way round?

In a criminal trial, yes.

This isn't a criminal trial.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic guns for all!
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 23:45 
User avatar
Excellent Member

Joined: 27th Sep, 2009
Posts: 876
Trooper wrote:
Four_Candles wrote:
Let's cut through the media guff and read something sensible on the matter:

http://hackaday.com/2013/05/06/the-firs ... dont-care/


From a US perspective that is. His argument basically "if you want a hand gun it is cheaper and easier to go and buy one rather than print it", which is true for the US, but not for other countries.


And then there's this:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/10 ... ic_3d_gun/


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search within this thread:
You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen. RIP, MrC.

Powered by a very Grim... version of phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.