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The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7335		 Page 18 of 24
Author:  devilman [ Fri Jun 15, 2018 18:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
devilman wrote:
Another article about the proposed £2 limit on FOBTs. Reading the comments from those in the industry, about potential job losses etc., doesn't make me feel a shred of sympathy for them.

Also, it'll be interesting to see how well the new Gamstop service works. In theory, you sign up with them and you'll automatically be prevented from joining casinos linked with the Gambling Commission. Although I'm already self-excluded from 99% of casinos, I've signed up anyway as I'm done with it all after a rougher than usual past six months.


And now delayed for two years
Author:  Hearthly [ Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Yeah shock horror eh? So the Tories get the headlines for DOING THE RIGHT THING, and then come up with some sly, dirty backroom deal to agree to two more years of misery and carnage in the industry's favour.

The bookies are saying they need the time to get the software changed and update the machines and whatnot, which is total horseshit, they can and do push software updates to them overnight when they want to change something or fix something, especially when they fuck up and leave something exploitable in the code.
Author:  devilman [ Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
32Red hit with £2m fine

One person spending £758k is mind-boggling. I looked elsewhere to find the time period involved and it was over just three years. Instead of perhaps offering advice (although if they were anything like me when I'm hypnotised by it all, they'd have just waved it all away and said 'let me gamble') they just gave him bonuses.
Author:  Grim... [ Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
"[...]a win of more then £1m was instantly gambled again."
Ker-ist.
Author:  Hearthly [ Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Casinos are getting into a bit of a tizzy about all the new UKGC regulations, having been used to effectively being judge, jury and executioner for far too long.

Quite a lot of online casinos just don't bother with the UK market now as it's an expensive and heavily regulated market to operate in, but that does mean that UK facing casinos are generally solid operations.

Some players are getting narked because they can get hit with 'SOW' (Source Of Wealth) information requests at any time which can be pretty onerous to comply with, especially if you're self-employed or have erratic income.

The thing the UKGC should really be doing IMO is clamping down on advertising, there's rumblings about it I believe but they need to take action on it.
Author:  Hearthly [ Wed Jun 20, 2018 13:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
A different perspective.....

I'll post a response later.

Attachment:
Screenshot 2018-06-20 at 13.17.41.png
Author:  myp [ Thu Jun 21, 2018 17:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
I guess this can go in here, although it's not gambling as such.

About a month ago my friend (used to be on here as bagwaa) introduced me to matched betting. Basically you take advantage of bookie signup offers like "Bet £20 get a £20 free bet", and the like. You place the bet and lay the opposite result on a betting exchange like Betfair or Smarkets. You take a small loss (usually under a quid) assuming the lay odds are slightly longer than the back odds. However now you have a free bet. By utilising the same technique you can extract a good 80% of it, so £16 from a £20 free bet. There are at least 100 bookies in the UK, so you can keep doing this for a while.

Once you've run out of signup offers they will tempt you back with reload offers and price boosts. You can just use these to your advantage. If the back odds end up longer than the lay odds with the boosts you will make a profit. Or if they do 2up offers where they pay out once a team goes two goals up, but end up not winning the game you'll get paid out at both ends. There are some other "advantage play" style things, but some of them carry risk so I haven't done any of those yet, I'm just sticking to risk-free stuff currently. Obviously if the bookies cotton onto the fact you're getting good value out of them they'll stop sending you promotions, but I'll worry about that when it happens.

I made £280 profit in the last week of May and I've made £340 in June so far, mainly due to so many World Cup offers. My goal is to make £300 a month, which should be doable. And of course it's tax-free as "gambling" winnings aren't taxed in the UK.
Author:  GazChap [ Thu Jun 21, 2018 21:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
I had a go at this a year or so ago via a website called Profit Accumulator. I enjoyed similar success to you, but the offers dried up really quickly and I had to jack it in.
Author:  myp [ Thu Jun 21, 2018 22:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
GazChap wrote:
I had a go at this a year or so ago via a website called Profit Accumulator. I enjoyed similar success to you, but the offers dried up really quickly and I had to jack it in.

I use OddsMonkey, but they're much the same. The signup offers are great, but you can still make a decent amount with reload offers. I haven't done any signups for a while because there have been so many World Cup and horse racing offers.

The reload offers are just quite small so you have to do a lot of them. £300 a month should be quite feasible though.
Author:  Hearthly [ Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
I'm surprised that sort of thing is still viable. Certainly when it comes to casino bonuses to play on slots and stuff like that, they've totally nailed them down over the last few years to the point now that it's basically impossible to find beatable bonuses. (Bonuses are still readily available, but when you dig into the T&Cs it quickly becomes clear it'll be a bust out before the wagering requirements are met.)

I can believe a one-time only sign-up bonus might have some mileage in it (although even that's borderline these days when it comes to casinos and slots), but I'd be amazed if a bookies continues to send out player-advantage bonuses after you've cashed out once or twice.

It'll be interesting to see how long you can keep it up for, but definitely hose them for what you can, whilst you can! Since the gambling 'industry' has the social conscience of a dog caught short on a croquet lawn*, it's nice when the little guy manages to get a bit back.



* TM Ben Elton, Stark cover notes.
Author:  myp [ Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
This guy has made £65k profit in under three years, so a piffling £300 a month seems trifling in comparison:

http://www.matchedbettingguy.com/blog/
Author:  myp [ Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
A lot of casino offers bust out, it's true, but they take a few minutes to complete and if you are lucky and hit the jackpot you can set it to autospin for the number of spins needed to wager and just leave it. I turned a £20 blackjack bonus into £32 cash in 10 mins the other day once wagering had finished. Plus you get free spins all the time which go straight into cash. I haven't done so well at those (maybe 80p-£1 each time) but they all add up and don't take long to do.
Author:  myp [ Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Of course I would no way recommend anyone attempt this if they are susceptible to gambling. It's a grubby business but I'm happy to take money off them because they are complete bastards.
Author:  Hearthly [ Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
The Death of the Fruit Machine

------------

I talk about the near-extinction of the traditional fruit machine on the Isle of Man.

------------
Author:  Hearthly [ Thu Jul 05, 2018 15:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
BEST £200 I EVER SPENT.

Fucking stupid online slots.
Author:  Findus Fop [ Fri Jul 06, 2018 14:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
We are the champions!
Author:  myp [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 18:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Betsid are a small bookie in Manchester who have just setup an online sportsbook and casino for the first time. Sign-up offer was bet £10 get a £10 free bet (which I took a profit of around £7 from), but also a £20 casino bonus which needed to be wagered 20x (so £400) which is a little high and I didn't expect much from.

However I hit the £500 jackpot from a 25p spin after about 300 mainly fruitless spins, then increased to £1 spins and got further £60 and £40 wins. After wagering I came out with £466.75 profit, which is my first big win from a casino offer. And entirely risk-free as if I'd busted out of the bonus money I would have closed my browser and moved onto the next offer.

That takes me to a grand total of £1,287 profit since I started at the end of May!
Author:  Hearthly [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 19:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
A 2000x stake win is a really rare hit, congrats!

(To give you an idea, the best win I've ever had is 1689x stake, and I've done a LOT of spins on online slots, including on many that are capable of paying considerably more than 2000x stake.)
Author:  myp [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 23:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
I worked out that the EV for this offer was £16 so worth doing as it only took 30 mins or so. I've not had much luck with casino offers lately, the best was £12 up after wagering and then getting a £10 free bet. This was just ludicrous and probably won't happen again.
Author:  myp [ Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Hit £1,500 total profit today! It's certainly been a good month so far. I've been doing more casino offers now I've got some confidence in them. Still only risk-free or low risk, though. I've looked at some of the guides for the high-risk ones and I just don't think I could hack the variance. You can lose hundreds of pounds over and over before you hit a massive win. I don't have the bankroll or the stomach for that.
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Author:  Hearthly [ Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
I managed to turn £100 into £965 over four evenings.
Author:  devilman [ Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Considering I'm struggling again with my gambling, I'm going to do my best to ignore those last two posts. :D
Author:  Hearthly [ Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Just remind yourself how shit it feels when you lose.

Here's me on the arse end of losing £200 in three hours and feeling like I'd not only completely wasted my money by the end of it, but my time as well.

(This is a direct timestamped link to the death throes of the session where I was actually wishing for the bust out to put me out of my misery.)

https://youtu.be/kDpRTG3H1_E?t=1h9m7s
Author:  myp [ Fri Aug 24, 2018 14:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
devilman wrote:
Considering I'm struggling again with my gambling, I'm going to do my best to ignore those last two posts. :D

I'm not gambling so :shrug: :D

I don't do anything that doesn't either have a guaranteed positive outcome or positive expected value over the long term.

I wouldn't recommend matched betting though if you struggle with gambling. The only reason I haven't put content warnings on is because I'm in the gambling thread and felt it wasn't necessary.
Author:  asfish [ Fri Aug 24, 2018 18:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Quote:
I managed to turn £100 into £965 over four evenings.


Are you getting yourself a gadget with the money, or will it fund future videos?
Author:  Hearthly [ Fri Aug 24, 2018 22:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
asfish wrote:
Are you getting yourself a gadget with the money, or will it fund future videos?


Neither really TBH, it's not a money thing, that gambling itch will never go away and sometimes I just like to scratch it.

(i.e. In monetary terms it's irrelevant these days.)

I think on some sort of level I like exercising a near total degree of control over the monster that nearly put me into an early grave, dancing with the devil, if you will.

Y'know, once I was sticking knives into my head and slitting my wrists, and now I can do this for fun! Sort of.

https://youtu.be/U6PuKBHEYBc?t=30m52s
Author:  Grim... [ Fri Aug 24, 2018 23:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Hearthly wrote:
Neither really TBH, it's not a money thing, that gambling itch will never go away and sometimes I just like to scratch it.

(i.e. In monetary terms it's irrelevant these days.)

Would playing for lower stakes work as well?
Author:  Hearthly [ Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
If I played for lower stakes you mean? I always play low stakes online, 50p per spin is about the limit of my comfort zone, usually less than that.

(For example on the slot Enchanted Spins, if I made a £100 deposit, I'd play that on 20p spins.)
Author:  myp [ Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
I don't really see the point in playing with your actual money unless you have an edge with bonus money or free spins. Those machines are usually 90-95% RTP so you'll lose overall. And they're boring as fuck. As soon as I bust out or complete wagering I close the window.
Author:  Hearthly [ Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Lonewolves wrote:
I don't really see the point in playing with your actual money unless you have an edge with bonus money or free spins. Those machines are usually 90-95% RTP so you'll lose overall. And they're boring as fuck. As soon as I bust out or complete wagering I close the window.


95-97% is where they usually sit, with a few outliers higher or lower. (There's a slot called Taxi Movida which has an RTP of 98.3%)

I do generally prefer to play with a bonus as the wagering requirement is my 'target' for the session, but they can be fun to play on a straight deposit - I find them quite entertaining.

Obviously the hook is the possibility of winning some cash, but a well designed slot can make for a decent game in its own right.

(Enchanted Spins at 3Dice is one of my favourites.)
Author:  myp [ Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
If I'm going to play something for fun I like there to be at least a small skill element like poker or blackjack. Even blackjack is 99.5% RTP so even playing perfectly you will lose in the long run.

Slots I just like making money out of.
Author:  Hearthly [ Sat Aug 25, 2018 14:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Well yes you clearly don't like online slots and are simply there to try and extract profit from EV+ bonus offers and suchlike, which is fine - but some folks do genuinely like them as games too! :)

As for Video Poker I just use autoplay at a casino there the autoplay/autohold plays proper optimal strategy. (Which it does at 3Dice for example, whereas some other software providers and their autoplay doesn't produce optimal results.)

With Video Pokers you've got to be very careful as there are some horribly low RTP variants and also some crazy high volatility variants as well.
Author:  Goddess Jasmine [ Sat Aug 25, 2018 17:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
I miss our old Beex poker nights. :(
Author:  myp [ Sat Aug 25, 2018 17:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
I would never play video poker. I mean real poker against fish.

Yeah Jazzy, we should definitely have a game at the cottage this year!
Author:  GazChap [ Sat Aug 25, 2018 17:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
I'm up for that. I've been working on my game... ;)
Author:  myp [ Sat Aug 25, 2018 19:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
GazChap wrote:
I'm up for that. I've been working on my game... ;)

Looking forward to seeing the Gazchap royal flush
Author:  TheVision [ Sat Aug 25, 2018 19:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
I'd play poker at the cottage. I haven't played in ages so go easy on me.
Author:  Grim... [ Sat Aug 25, 2018 23:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Lonewolves wrote:
Those machines are usually 90-95% RTP so you'll lose overall.

The house will win overall. There a difference.

(Also, 90% is really low).
Author:  myp [ Sat Aug 25, 2018 23:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Grim... wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Those machines are usually 90-95% RTP so you'll lose overall.

The house will win overall. There a difference.

(Also, 90% is really low).

If you play them once in a while then yeah, you could get lucky and win big, but play for long enough then EV kicks in and you'll lose. Just like if you flip a coin 10 times it might be 8 heads but if you flip a coin a million times it'll be very close to 50/50.

If you play for fun and don't mind that then it's ok, but my aim is to extract as much money from them as possible with the minimum of risk.

90% is really low, I agree, but I've seen them. I tend to stick to 96%+.
Author:  Hearthly [ Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Lonewolves wrote:
If you play for fun and don't mind that then it's ok, but my aim is to extract as much money from them as possible with the minimum of risk.

90% is really low, I agree, but I've seen them. I tend to stick to 96%+.


Make sure you check the T&Cs on the bonuses (if you're not already), many casinos exclude certain slots from contributing to wagering (or void a bonus completely if you play them), or they taper the contribution they make to wagering based on their RTP. (This is what Videoslots do.)

As ever you have to wade through 3 million pages of T&Cs to find the relevant information and the way it's presented might not be clear either, I made my own chart after having worked out the system Videoslots were on.

VIDEOSLOTS BONUS CONTRIBUTION BASED ON RTP:

Each 0.01% under or over 96% RTP adds or removes 0.25% of contribution to wagering.

(In simple terms, you add or remove 2.5% of wagering contribution for every 0.1% under or over 96% RTP.)

RTP - CONTRIBUTION

93.0% - 175%
93.1% - 172.5%
93.2% - 170%
93.3% - 167.5%
93.4% - 165%
93.5% - 162.5%
93.6% - 160%
93.7% - 157.5%
93.8% - 155%
93.9% - 152.5%
94.0% - 150%
94.1% - 147.5%
94.2% - 145%
94.3% - 142.5%
94.4% - 140%
94.5% - 137.5%
94.6% - 135%
94.7% - 132.5%
94.8% - 130%
94.9% - 127.5%
95.0% - 125%
95.1% - 122.5%
95.2% - 120%
95.3% - 117.5%
95.4% - 115%
95.5% - 112.5%
95.6% - 110%
95.7% - 107.5%
95.8% - 105%
95.9% - 102.5%
96.0% - 100%
96.1% - 97.5%
96.2% - 95%
96.3% - 92.5%
96.4% - 90%
96.5% - 87.5%
96.6% - 85%
96.7% - 82.5%
96.8% - 80%
96.9% - 77.5%
97.0% - 75%
97.1% - 72.5%
97.2% - 70%
97.3% - 67.5%
97.4% - 65%
97.5% - 62.5%
97.6% - 60%
97.7% - 57.5%
97.8% - 55%
97.9% - 52.5%
98.0% - 50%
98.1% - 47.5%
98.2% - 45%
98.3% - 42.5%
98.4% - 40%
98.5% - 37.5%
98.6% - 35%
98.7% - 32.5%
98.8% - 30%
98.9% - 27.5%
99.0% - 25%
Author:  myp [ Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Oh yeah, I fully check out wagering requirements and what slots/games count before I sign up for the offer.

If blackjack counted 100% all the time I'd do nothing but that, but it counts for 10% of wagering on a lot of sites. I have plenty of EV calculators and other tools to make sure an offer is worth my time and effort.
Author:  myp [ Mon Aug 27, 2018 20:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Just turned a signup £20 bonus into £152.75 cash on Gala Spins using a new machine called Chilli Fiesta. Wagering requirement was x20 so £400. I just kept hitting the bonus round with the pinata. EV was £6! Puts me on over £1k profit for the month now.
Author:  Dr Zoidberg [ Mon Aug 27, 2018 21:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
How long till you run out of sites to sign up for?
Author:  myp [ Mon Aug 27, 2018 22:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
How long till you run out of sites to sign up for?

I've signed up to about 30ish and there's at least 100 more. I've not really done many signups since June and I'm just doing reload offers at the moment.
Author:  Hearthly [ Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
One thing that can happen is you'll get bonus banned across an entire group, as multiple casino brands are often owned by the same parent company with a shared database.
Author:  myp [ Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Hearthly wrote:
One thing that can happen is you'll get bonus banned across an entire group, as multiple casino brands are often owned by the same parent company with a shared database.

It's not happened yet on any casino sites, but i have been restricted for sports bet bonuses on both Betway and Netbet. Betway are notorious for it and Netbet it happened after I made £297.50 from my "bet £50 get a £50 free bet" welcome offer.

However, I still have access to those accounts and I'll just arb the fuck out of them when the opportunity arises.
Author:  TheVision [ Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Is this similar to that scam that Rev. Stu figured out a few years back? Basically, taking advantage of cashback offers on roulette tables.

I followed it all through back then and it paid for a new Xbox 360 and tons of other stuff at the time. It was amazing although I did have to use an old PC as all the software you had to download was a shonky as anything.
Author:  myp [ Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
No idea, never saw that. The software is all web-based now. I pay £18 a month for OddsMonkey subsctiption although the guides they give you for the free offers totals £45 profit so you effectively get 2.5 months for free. Team Profit is free, they make their money with referral links etc.

It seems complicated at first, especially the sports betting, but I only spend a couple of hours a day on it now. Like I said earlier, if you're susceptible to gambling then I wouldn't recommend it as you have to be disciplined and not have a "just one more spin" mindset.
Author:  Hearthly [ Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Quite an interesting old UK AWP for those who are curious. This machine got a 'rechip' to fix an issue whereby one of the features was true skill and the machine didn't block the player getting to it, a skilful enough player could empty the machine.

The layout was originally released with the rechipped ROMs so we weren't able to try the emptier, but a chum of mine managed to unearth earlier, unchipped ROMs, so I decided to have a go at the emptier.

As you can see, you need to be pretty fucking handy at skill stops to be able to empty the machine.

Back in the day pro players would travel long distances to find and play these.
Author:  myp [ Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
Hit £2k total profit today. Mixture of low-risk casino and bet x get y, 2up/2clear sport offers.
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