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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:26 
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Don't think I've heard your side of the tale before zaphod, or if I have I've forgotten it :D

Where did you get hold of the early 'test' version? Was that via the newsgroups, same way I got wind of the demo, or was Wizard punting it out somewhere else as well?

Certainly at the time an internet search for 'fruit machine emulation' came up blank. (I started up the MSN Community 'Fruit Machine Emulation' and of course the original Hovel.)

I do remember the hacked demo version being made available with the tools enabled and suchlike, was that one of your sites, MPU World or something?


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:02 
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Hearthly wrote:

Where did you get hold of the early 'test' version? Was that via the newsgroups, same way I got wind of the demo, or was Wizard punting it out somewhere else as well?


It was a mailing list that was put together by someone flogging off 'fruit machine tips' although this was actually useful stuff - there were emptiers but nothing new however there was a lot of good info on best ways of playing some machines to max your profit (like playing club cops n robbers and ignoring everything but the cashpot symbols within 4 nudges) - Chris Smedley is the name i remember from the list and googling his name + club machines gets you some old pages about the mailing list he used to run

Chris (Wizard( was on that mailing list and offered it on there first a little while before he tried the newsgroups

Hearthly wrote:
I do remember the hacked demo version being made available with the tools enabled and suchlike, was that one of your sites, MPU World or something?


Not mine , I just uploaded the layouts to the various forums , i think that was Harveys - who was one of the other people in 'MPUDEV' or whatever name we put the early layouts under - it was basically 3 people - we had a handful of roms without any layouts and made the layouts and put them out until Gary created the very first DX and things went mental from that point on


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:23 
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zaphod79 wrote:
It was a mailing list that was put together by someone flogging off 'fruit machine tips' although this was actually useful stuff - there were emptiers but nothing new however there was a lot of good info on best ways of playing some machines to max your profit (like playing club cops n robbers and ignoring everything but the cashpot symbols within 4 nudges) - Chris Smedley is the name i remember from the list and googling his name + club machines gets you some old pages about the mailing list he used to run

Chris (Wizard( was on that mailing list and offered it on there first a little while before he tried the newsgroups


Yes that's the 'Club Machine Association', I paid £45 to join it and got the 'secret tricks document' which sounds like the one you're referring to there, I've still got a copy of it in fact :) It was mostly club machine information and older information at that. There was also a URL for the CMA Members' 'Golden Page' on their website which had some AWP information as well, I wrote a couple of guides for it.

I've got it in my head they had a newsgroup named after them but I could be mistaken on that. In fact, thinking back it's possible I'm getting a bit mixed up, maybe it was the mailing list that Chris posted to about MPU3/4 and not a newsgroup? (Or maybe he posted to both.)

It was through that mailing list that I got my very first contacts, and was told about forcing Barcrests, the Lotta Luck/Psycho Cash Beast knockback method, and a few other things as well. (None of this was discussed openly, but people were prepared to share behind the scenes.)

I do remember the figures on how many copies of the emulator Chris sold as being single figures, like literally less than 10 sales.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 16:22 
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Heh! Fascinating reading and listening. :)

I was around from late 2001 I think; I stumbled across The Hovel, and then Fruit Forums as a result, and I well remember reading Hearthly's very helpful MPU3/4 getting started guide for dummies, and marveling at *actual fruit machines* playing on my unbelievably awful and shonky Time Computers (remember them?) Win98 home PC. Gobsmacking.

Of course, as I was to soon discover, the incredibly energetic, turbulent and volatile "scene" was at least as interesting as the emulation itself, and I would marvel at all the shenanigans, schisms, massive strops and imploding forums over the next few months alone. Marvelous stuff; those halcyon days... FF was pretty much loaded onto my browser day and night; I worked very odd hours and I still do, and yet even in those small hours of the morning, people would still be posting, stuff would still be happening in abundance. I think the net was far more vibrant and exciting then than now, despite all of the tech advances.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 23:19 
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Hearthly wrote:
Yes that's the 'Club Machine Association', I paid £45 to join it and got the 'secret tricks document' which sounds like the one you're referring to there,


Yip thats it - i think it was me + a pal went in 1/2's to get that - he played a lot more club machines than i did but it was still worthwhile - he got the 'printed' version and went off with that - i got the chance to read the stuff online and access to the mailing list

Hearthly wrote:
I've got it in my head they had a newsgroup named after them but I could be mistaken on that. In fact, thinking back it's possible I'm getting a bit mixed up, maybe it was the mailing list that Chris posted to about MPU3/4 and not a newsgroup? (Or maybe he posted to both.)


So there was a mailing list that had stuff that was sent out onto to those on the list - I know Wizard posted the first version and other stuff on there - I think he did also post the links elswhere but it was the CMA list that i got it from i also seem to remember a password to get somewhere else on that website you've shown the image of and some other facebook or similar link that it changed into along the way

I will also have my archived emails from there on a backup disk somewhere


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:45 
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I found the MSN group first and then Fruit Forums later.

After that I contributed nothing to the scene. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:54 
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A tribute to one of the finest AWPs ever made. Note that this machine features actual AMUSEMENT, with PRIZES. Unlike modern AWPs which are fucking shit.



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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:41 
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Fantastic machine, no question. Fond (if rather hazy ;) ) memories of 1994, for sure.
Look forward to watching the vid at home later. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 19:08 
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Early ROMs for Frenzy now available (cloned as Psycho Cash Beast and Big Brother).

The knockback manipulator works on these in the emulator for the first time.

A splendid chap passed me the ROMs a couple of weeks ago, here is the video and you can download the layout+ROMs over at Desert Island Fruits.

Also features sensational bonus content* from 34m38s onward.

* May not be sensational.



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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 22:00 
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Ahhh, Down Up Right A Left. An old friend of mine ;)

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 16:32 
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An emptier on an old £4.80 jackpot Barcrest lo-tech.

Is there anything they didn't fuck up?



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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 14:21 
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'A hand ball, but was it deliberate? Yes, a yellow card.'



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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 14:55 
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Heh, I did enjoy the Blue Moon vid mate, fascinating stuff. It's certainly a dangerous thing having a pre-programmed happy state on RAM clear (or even just machine reboot, as I believe was the case on ancient stuff like MPU3 Hyper Vipers, meaning all the scrotes were forever switching them off, inserting 10p and taking the guaranteed small win/exchange, rinse and repeat lol).

I'm sure those few "in the know", in those pre-internet times, did very, very well out of it indeed.

For me, the fundamental problem lies with the apparent legal/gambling status of AWPs. Fairplay touched on this back in the day; I believe that an AWP isn't classed as bona fide gambling, in the same way that a crane grab at the amusement arcade isn't either - as absurd as that sounds, and indeed is. I mean, if the arcade owner's kid seems to win all the Action Man figurines and best sweets etc. off the crane grab that's one thing; whilst this might piss the other local kids off, no-one is going to lose their shirt/job/livelihood/life over it. Conversely, those "harmless fun" amusement with prizes machines that "everyone knows" are not gambling, "just for fun", "always a con" are actually Grade A gambling incarnate and wreck lives. No-one cares, though, because fruit machine players are mugs/scum and if they're stupid enough to play the things, they deserve all they get. Etc.

It's hard not to be angry; I was for a decade or more when I found out the truth, but fuck man, life really is too short. If you don't want to be ripped off, stay away from anything to do with gambling.

Keep the vids coming though, loving them all, and most informative! :)

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:45 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43260012

Bookies look to be worried about the outcome of the FOBT stake reviews

Making noise about cutting the 8 million a year they spend sponsoring sports events, to encourage people to gamble, if things don't go their way :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 13:05 
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Good.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 13:48 
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Good.

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If I never see another banter-laden gambling ad it'll be too soon.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 14:25 
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Yeah, the bookies can feck off with their awful FOBTs (which make fruit machines look harmless by comparison).
We get to "lose" all those 'lovely' establishments defacing every High Street in the land, most especially in poorer areas. I don't care that the shops would otherwise be empty; let them be empty. Empty shops don't destroy lives; convert them into other uses incl. residential.

We must have been fucking mad to have ever thought this shit was ever going to be a good idea. It's really not.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 15:09 
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The biggest problem with the FOBTs is the stakes (up to £100 per spin on roulette), the jackpot at £500 seems faintly ridiculous for machines you can just walk in off the straight and play, but we've had £500 jackpot random machines in the pubs here for well over a decade and whilst I'm not particularly comfortable with that, they don't seem to cause any great societal problems either. (Although some folks definitely like them far too much.)

Reducing the maximum stake to £2 on FOBTs will take a lot of the sting out of them IMO, there's a limit to how much money you can lose on low variance random games at 90%+ payouts.

In an ideal world I don't think you'd have such easy access to any form of 'instant fix' gambling from the AWP upwards, and the devices should only be playable in casino environments and suchlike, but bugger all chance of that coming to pass.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 15:28 
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I agree that reducing the stake to £2 will at least roll back the current catastrophic situation, but I'm still not comfortable with machines like this being on every decaying High Street corner, every run down part of town.

I think we, as a country, need to have a serious discussion about how we want our small towns and their retail areas, High Streets etc. to evolve. For me, bookies aren't (or shouldn't be) part of the mix.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 17:27 
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Hmm, for the first time with the vids, I am going to have to strongly disagree with you here, Hearthly. How you can say that dross from BWB like Cup Final is supposedly some kind of minor classic is beyond me, especially when you yourself uncover many of the reasons when this is patently not the case in your own video!

I mean, seriously - this harks from the very early 90s £4.80 era, almost universally recognised as being an absolute fruity golden age, but people are thinking of classic skill-based Scorp 1 Bell Fruits like Double Chance, great Maygays like EastEnders, Corrie, super low- and mid-techs from Project (and, yes, the Band Aid ACEs if they were yer bag). It's an embarrassment of riches, but I'm afraid BWB (and parent Barcrest for that matter) were out in the cold. This just wasn't a good time for them at all; their clonky "Money Maker" early MPU4 offerings were simply awful (remember that 4-reel AWP Blackjack thing? Four reels on a £4.80JP?)

As even you yourself say in your piece, the feature board isn't well thought out at all; no nudges (and therefore no way to use the Band Aid in the feature.... wow great idea that), totally progressive i.e. absolutely nothing worth taking up to the last few squares, no actual feature games *at all* (e.g. fruit roulette, cashfalls, win series etc.), it's as dull as fucking dishwater, and as you found out, despite being £50 ahead of percentage whereupon it should be gagging to pay, that final "Incident" square was/is an absolute piss-taking bastard.

The Band Aid has simply been stapled on, it having absolutely nothing to do with the feature itself (the focus of the whole game), and unless rolling straight in, almost never in paltry open play nudge range. Play It Again Sam this ain't.

Just to add final insult to injury, the Hi/Lo was a nasty, cheating twat (again as you note), and the profile was boringly flat. Never saw one do anything like a decent streak (despite worse than average dead patches), or go mental on the repeater. In short, there was absolutely no reason I can see to have played one of these, especially when almost every other machine from that era was vastly better, most notably the skill/Winning Streak BFMs which were an absolute delight.

It's all a matter of opinion of course ( :) ), but I think you might be falling into the nostalgia trap here. I won't deny that even this looks like a masterpiece in amusement and entertainment in comparison to today's nasty £100 machines but then *anything* does. I must say it just doesn't do it for me.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 19:41 
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I can't actually disagree with anything you say there Cavey, and yes I am actively comparing it to the shit that passes for 'Amusement With Prizes' in the current era, and indeed the shit it's been since after the £25 jackpot era, and that's if you're being generous. Personally I'd say the £15 era was the last time AWPs actually had some amusement about them. £25 was borderline.

All that said, I do like Cup Final, it's got a great sound package and it's fun to play, (I will forgive a lot of sins for a great sample pack, especially decent tunes, and BWB were masters at that), plus it does have a streak in it and likes to do little 'mini-streaks' from time to time as well, I've had the £3 repeater go out to £15 too.

Your criticisms are entirely valid, but I still like this one, and it was a layout I just had to download and play as soon as Reg released it over at Desert Island Fruits, and it's definitely going to go on the 'one to fire up periodically and lump a few quid through' list.

As for Double Chance - that'll be getting a video all to itself in the not too distant future :)


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 20:44 
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Last night's ructions.



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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 14:39 
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Part Two of Fruit Machine Emulation History.



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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 16:48 
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That was a good watch. Part 3 should be a humdinger! :)

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 19:51 
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Nemmie wrote:
That was a good watch. Part 3 should be a humdinger! :)


I honestly have no idea how I'm going to tackle it yet.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 17:44 
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A classic BFM from 1991 reviewed.

AND NO I AM NOT REALLY SHIT AT SKILL CASH NOW I'M AN OLD MAN.



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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:34 
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Ah superb, thanks for that. Great machine, as I said earlier; all time classic, without a shred of doubt.

I wouldn’t feel bad about missing those skill shots some 30 years on; these machines were aimed squarely at dashing young skillsters like we were back then! :D

I used to play these in Weston arcades, and they were far more token orientated. The Winning Streak would nearly always (and only) repeat with jackpots. I remember having to swap £20 in tokens for M&S vouchers regularly (until the twat of an arcade owner saw his arse and threw me out). Lovely world of fruit machines huh.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 13:17 
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I do manage to take the Skill Cash out to Winning Streak at the last attempt, don't know if you watched that far :) It's definitely more difficult in the emulator anyway without the physicality of the real machine and proper buttons, and of course I'm a slow old fucker now as well :D

I've been meaning to do a Double Chance video for a while, the Screenplay video was originally a Screenplay + Double Chance video, where I had the two machines running side by side and talked about + played both, but having got it finished I realised the machines were so strong individually that they deserved their own videos.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 15:27 
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LOL.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 15:43 
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Ruined it now.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 17:31 
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According to the Scottish guy who sounds anything but cheerful the skill shots are a lot harder on the emulator due to a slight delay between you hitting the key and it stopping.

I am surprised you didn't use that excuse as well :)

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:10 
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They're definitely harder in the emulator although I don't think there's any emulator lag involved, it's a combination of many things to my mind, the lack of a physical machine and buttons, PC monitor instead of traditional bulbs, less 'travel' for the skillstop itself (i.e. a monitor is a lot smaller than a real machine), but also of course just being the best part of 30 years older than I was when I used to be shit hot at skillstops.....


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 19:27 
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Forgot I had this in the garage old school 1950's gambling


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:59 
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More fun than £100 jackpot AWPS :D


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 18:41 
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£350+ out of a '£70 jackpot' AWP.....



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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:06 
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Quote:
£350+ out of a '£70 jackpot' AWP.....


Will you be uploading the GAM & Ram files for it?


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 13:00 
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asfish wrote:
Quote:
£350+ out of a '£70 jackpot' AWP.....


Will you be uploading the GAM & Ram files for it?


I can whack them up over at DIF if you want, it wasn't a particularly exotic autoplay but I guess it'll save you whacking a couple of grand through it.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 13:01 
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Online casino wagering insanity.

The time I took on a £122,000 WR at Tropica. Reupload with a new intro and outro.



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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 15:59 
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Bloody hell, that Cops 'n Robbers thraping was an eye-opener, and no mistake. What the hell was the hopper size on these things; would they not simply go IOU paying out £300+ banks? (I'm assuming that much of the cash you staked to "buy" the third invincible board, which was a long time coming, would've gone down the back and into the cashbox?)

Man, and I used to think dead as dodo £15 JPMs were bad...

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:44 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/nhttp://www.bbc.co ... s-43455480

Gambling Commission has said that FOBT should have a maximum £30 stake for all none slot games

Also, said that slots should be no more than £2 a spin

Looks like this is something the government will consider not necessarily implement, they could go for a lower stake.

GC also recommend that there is proper control such as session limits with a block on game play once the limits have been reached

This will kick the bookies profits for sure as most of it comes from £100 roulette and £50 slot games


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:03 
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Fuck the bookies. Evil exploitative, life ruining industry


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:23 
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DavPaz wrote:
Fuck the bookies. Evil exploitative, life ruining industry


:this:

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:31 
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The casino play through bonus was an epic achievement I think and great to watch.

I should perhaps give these types of videos a miss in future though as I am starting to feel the urge to try my own experiments.

There still seem to be some very generous bonuses offered by some of the myriad of casino websites.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:01 
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Considering the bookies go on about gambling being fun and entertaining, it does rather seem at odds with them gouging their heaviest and most addicted gamblers for as much as possible. I have no sympathy whatsoever if measures are brought in to curb their profits from these machines.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:08 
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Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
Posts: 9521
Location: The Golden Country
“Fun” = £50 per spin. Fifty quid every 3 seconds.

Could these shysters be any more transparently malign? This has been going on for years!

The online Casinos can GTFF as far as I’m concerned as well; for me, they’re in precisely the same category as bookies infesting every decaying street corner. Yup, the terrible social consequences of Labour’s great deregulation of the gambling ‘industry’ are now, all too painfully, clear to see.

I guess we’ll chalk that one up as “unforeseeable” too, right?

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:03 
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Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 13381
Nemmie wrote:
The casino play through bonus was an epic achievement I think and great to watch.

I should perhaps give these types of videos a miss in future though as I am starting to feel the urge to try my own experiments.

There still seem to be some very generous bonuses offered by some of the myriad of casino websites.


Yes it was one of my better efforts, it wasn't so much the cash as the intellectual exercise in beating what everyone was telling me was an unbeatable bonus, even if it did take me pretty much an entire weekend to wager the £122K. (I mean, not non-stop, I still slept and went out swimming with the family on the Saturday afternoon and suchlike, but if I was in the house, The Back Nine was running.)

I'm starting to consider logging into my old 3Dice account to see if my VIP status is still the same, as all their VIP bonuses were nicely EV+. Would make for a decent session and some fresh content for the channel...... :o

I could pipe the output to my new telly and have the world's biggest slot machine :DD


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:35 
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Cavey wrote:
The online Casinos can GTFF as far as I’m concerned as well; for me, they’re in precisely the same category as bookies infesting every decaying street corner. Yup, the terrible social consequences of Labour’s great deregulation of the gambling ‘industry’ are now, all too painfully, clear to see.


I wouldn't put online casinos in the same bucket as bookies, online slots are a lot less immediate than FOBTs in the bookies, and they don't proliferate in town centres (specifically less well off places) and have a negative impact on the whole area.

I'm not saying they're a 'good thing', but there are degrees of undesirability in this scenario IMO. I'd definitely get all advertising for online casinos off telly though, and other media outlets.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:49 
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Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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Hearthly wrote:
I'd definitely get all advertising for online casinos off telly though, and other media outlets.


I'd certainly approve of that. Right now, I'm self-excluded from pretty much all of the well-known online casinos, and plenty more obscure ones, but back when I was watching more football, I'd sometimes see gambling sponsorship for one I'd not heard of and that would plant the seed in my head again.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 18:26 
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Bit of a distasteful new fruit machine, called 'TOP TRAMPS'.

Has feature names such as 'Under and Odour', 'Spare Change', Shooting Up', 'Hot Soup', 'Wino Lot' and 'Kicking Pigeons'.

Artwork contains images of tramps called 'Scabby Abby', 'Special Pete' and 'Crack Charlie'.

Effortlessly making fun of homelessness, alcoholism and drug addiction in one tidy package.

Attachment:
tramps01.JPG

Attachment:
tramps02.JPG


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 18:27 
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Joined: 11th May, 2008
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Those pictures are the right way round on my computer.


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