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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 14:43 
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They have plenty of money.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 15:04 
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Trooper wrote:
I have no doubt it happened, but I wonder how many times they pay out those figures. It seems a huge coincidence it happened to an active poster on a casino forum.

On the one hand, those are the people who play more, so are more likely to hit big, on the other hand, it is a trifle convenient and if it had to happen to someone, then that is the best person it could have happened to from the perspective of the casino, in terms or marketing and getting their money back in the long run...


Well the developer of the game has an active rep on the forums and they confirmed it was a legit win and also replayed the bonus round to make the video, so there'd have to be a lot of folks in cahoots.....

As a multiplication of stake the win isn't off the scale ridiculous, it's the fact the guy was playing £20 spins that really sent it into the stratosphere.

As Grim... says, that sort of figure is pocket change to the casino, the fact that they've chosen to allow such big bets on a highly volatile slot says they're quite happy with that sort of potential exposure.

(For example there's a slot called Dead or Alive 2 which can hit for 110,000x stake, some casinos limit that to £3 spins at a maximum, whilst the developer allows for up to £18 spins.)

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 19:05 
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Like I said, I have no doubt it happened.

If it was me, and I wanted someone to win to get some visibility, and to get vulnerable people chucking in more money, I would choose an active forum member to win big..


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 19:32 
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Trooper wrote:
Like I said, I have no doubt it happened.

If it was me, and I wanted someone to win to get some visibility, and to get vulnerable people chucking in more money, I would choose an active forum member to win big..


But they can't 'choose' who wins, the games are totally and 100% random, by law.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 14:26 
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Here's an interesting one, we've caught the Coral and Gala casinos advertising that they're running slots at 96% RTP, but analysis of the network traffic when the slot is loading shows that they're running the 94% maths model, that's a 50% increase in the house edge.

This has already been submitted to the UKGC as a formal complaint, we've also made Coral aware (and indeed gave them ample opportunity to respond before going public).

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 14:51 
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What the hell did you do to that poor image? It's simultaneously massive and unreadable, which is quite the achievement.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 14:59 
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Sorry it's a still from my video and it was running at 480p.

It's the network trace that you can run in Chrome by pressing CTRL + SHIFT + I.

When loading in slots from a provider called Play 'N Go, you can see the server passes the value '94' for the RTP, the help files state they're running in the 96% maths model.

Here's a better pic.

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jokkers.png


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 15:01 
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While I agree it's dubious, it's not proof that's what it's doing unless you've got access to the rest of the code showing it doing something relevant with that value.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 15:07 
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We tested it at a fuckton of casinos. Play 'N Go release their games with five different maths models, 96, 94, 91, 87 and 84. Everywhere else we tried the value in the network trace matched the help file.

However, the help files are ordinarily served up by Play 'N Go themselves, but Coral and Gala do their own help files.

It'll be a mistake rather than deliberate maleficence, but it's still ripping off their customers and in breach of their LCCP licence.

More info here - https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/th ... nse.90445/

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 18:49 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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I have code where the variable may say one thing, but what I choose to do with that variable is not necessarily the same thing...


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 18:53 
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Yes, quite. Or I don't even do anything with that variable any more, it's from 8 revs back.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 19:28 
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Yes we have considered all those kinds of things, and indeed before going public I said to the guy I was working with that we don't actually have cast iron proof of what that value means.

However, if you look at the thread you'll see all the work that went into it, one really good 'tell' was a casino that recently changed from running the 96 maths model to the 94 maths model, and that value had changed to 94.

There's also a load of extra stuff from Russia that kicked all this off, but that's more detail that's not necessary here.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 20:06 
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Hearthly wrote:
But they can't 'choose' who wins, the games are totally and 100% random, by law.
And we can certainly trust them not to break the law.

Hearthly’s next post wrote:
Here's an interesting one, we've caught the Coral and Gala casinos advertising that they're running slots at 96% RTP, but analysis of the network traffic when the slot is loading shows that they're running the 94% maths model, that's a 50% increase in the house edge. This has already been submitted to the UKGC as a formal complaint
Oh.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 20:10 
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The irony is not lost on me.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 20:11 
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Oh yes and Coral have just pulled all Play 'N Go slots from their casino, so make of that what you will.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 20:11 
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Just to catch me up, 96% RTP is over time, for every 100 you pop in, you get 96 of them back?

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 20:17 
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And now they're coming back with new help files.....

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 20:38 
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MaliA wrote:
Just to catch me up, 96% RTP is over time, for every 100 you pop in, you get 96 of them back?


In simple terms, yes. Although to give you an idea, developers usually run simulations over some 5-10 billion spins before releasing a new slot, to make sure it's keeping to its RTP correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 21:07 
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And we've now had it confirmed by a representative from the casino group, they were indeed advertising the wrong RTPs, they are of course saying it was a mistake ('internal communication breakdown'), they removed all the games from their casinos and are bringing them back online with the correct help files.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 13:43 
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Oh, well, that's fine then.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 14:58 
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Well no, obviously not. That's what the official complaint to the UKGC is for.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 19:26 
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Update.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 23:24 
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Stu on the telly!

The subject of the video is the infamous 'Fairplay' campaign, which targeted cheating fruit machines.

The main video is not mine, but a chum of mine who goes by the name 'Fishsta'.

Attachment:
stuers.JPG


INTRO VIDEO:



MAIN VIDEO:



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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:55 
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I didn't watch all of that (natch), but I hadn't realised you were such a "face" on the scene (the bit where he talks about being directed to Degsy's web hovel by Stuart Campbell).

Are you a fruitie influencer?


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:57 
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Findus Fop wrote:
I didn't watch all of that (natch), but I hadn't realised you were such a "face" on the scene (the bit where he talks about being directed to Degsy's web hovel by Stuart Campbell).

Are you a fruitie influencer?


I realise it's not much of a claim to fame but I created and hosted the first fruit machine emulation site on the entire internet.

Going back to 2001, I had heard of the emulator via a small UK fruit machine Usenet group where the author was offering it for sale, but no one was really showing any interest. (Apparently he sold fewer than 10 copies.) I bought a copy myself for £50, not really believing it would be 'proper' emulation, and a CD duly arrived in the post with the emulator and layouts + ROMs for about 40 machines or so. Pretty much as soon as I loaded it in and started to play, I realised that there would be a considerable amount of interest in a genuine fruit machine emulator (because it was indeed the real deal).

As such I started up my site, the very first fruit machine emulation website, and it quickly generated quite a bit of traffic, turns out there were many people out there forlornly typing 'fruit machine emulation' into Google/Yahoo/etc search on a reasonably regular basis, and my site was the first site that ever generated any results.

It's still hosted by a current fruit machine emulation website, my site was last updated in 2002...... - http://dadsfme.co.uk/hovel/The%20Hovel/index.html

I made a video about it as well.


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 13:31 
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Haha first page is me, swearing and hollering as I used to do.

Cumtwatta!

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 13:36 
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Still one of our favourite insults that is.....

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 13:38 
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Poor Cavey


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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 19:44 
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You dedicated an entire CD-R to Outlook Express??

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 20:39 
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GazChap wrote:
You dedicated an entire CD-R to Outlook Express??


I am a very diligent archivist. I can recover a copy of my 'My Documents' folder from mid-1999.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 20:55 
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I assume that by "Outlook Express", it means the email data then rather than the program itself? Because if it's the program, then that's a bit further than "very diligent archivist".

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 21:01 
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It's the .dbx files (each of the folders in Outlook Express had its own .dbx file associated with it), which can be opened using a modern program, the name of which currently escapes me. I use it in the video linked above to restore emails from the very earliest days of the fruit machine emulation scene.

Hang on, SysTools DBX Converter, that's the fella.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 19:17 
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Might be of interest to a couple of folks.

Here we have an old club machine (from 1993/1994) that never, ever, reaches its target percentage unless you play it a certain way.

Play it as some people played it back in the day, and it will permanently sit around 20% under its target percentage.

First video is me getting pissed off with it, second video is a fine fruit machine emulation community effort getting to the bottom of it.




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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 18:22 
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Really sad news, the coder of MPU3/4, later known as MFME, has died at the age of 55 :(

He went by the forum name of 'Wizard' but his real name was Chris Wren.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 22:05 
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I made a couple of videos about this.




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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 16:32 
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Fuck man that's really fucking shitty :(

I've not touched an emulator in 8 years but fuck that sucks :(

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 17:07 
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Paid my respects, if that is even possible.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 18:25 
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Hi there JC, yes it's been totally shit and some of us have been hit really hard by it, but some positives have come out of a terrible event.

It turns out that none of Chris's family knew about his emulator. They knew that his house was full of old fruit machines and pinballs and all sorts of other gadgets and gizmos, that he'd maxed out his garage and converted his loft to get more stuff in, and spent a huge amount of time tinkering and on his computer, but they simply had no idea that he'd spent the last twenty years coding, developing and iterating an emulator that had brought so much joy into so many people's lives.

We've actually had two of his family sign up over at Desert Island Fruits, including one of his nieces, who has posted to say how much it means to the family to understand and appreciate what it was he had done. (A few people literally credit Chris with saving their lives, as his emulator was pivotal in them breaking the cycle of addiction.)

We're all annoyed on his behalf, because he was within shouting distance of accomplishing his goal, which was to basically have every known fruit machine that the ROMs were available for, running in his emulator, he'd even implemented electromechanical machines from the late 1970s that don't even have ROMs, and all told his one single emulator covered 40 years of fruit machines.

I reckon that given another five years or so, he'd have done it.

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 Post subject: Re: The pointless emulation thread - fruit machines
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 18:35 
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Gutted.

I walked in 2011, but those 11 years were the biggest roller coaster of my life really. My marriages didn't even last that long lol.

Yeah I saw his family posts. When I met up with Mike Stead down in Selsey a few years ago I left an open invitation for a meet with Chris, who apparently did pop down now and then. He flat out refused. I am glad I did that though. It was probably the last thing I had left to do with FME and then I could walk away.

I've lost a few online friends now. It's never easy really. I mean you can try and rationalise it in your head as "well I never knew him or her so it's less important" but that's bullshit. From the sound of Chris if you didn't know him online you didn't know him at all. I mean, we knew him better than his family. He was a complete hermit and I know how that is.

A few years back a fellow modder who I knew very well passed away. He was very young (early 30s). Literally found a lump on his neck and he was dead within a month. I was desolate. I'd never ever felt that way about someone I had never met dying before.

The older I get the less I engage with the world through traditional means.

TBH? my life is one big project and there is no way I can ever get everything done. You just have to do what you can whilst you have the chance tbh. I've known that a very long time. 40 years in fact since my father passed away at 35 and I have had every year since then (12) that he never got. So it's not something I ever forget. Time is the most incredibly valuable thing you ever have.

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