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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 16:43 
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Sleepyhead

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Kern wrote:
CG has summed things up pretty well, and he does, indeed, have good formatting. I just can't bring myself to vote in favour of something I disagree with. It's like I'm in a café and they're offering BLTs with or without cheese, but I do not want a BLT but want a pasty.

Oh, and very crafty of the 'No' campaign to redirect http://www.yes2av.org to their pages.


But if you don't order anything, you'll never be able to have an influence (or legitimate grievance that electoral reform goes ignored for the next umpteen decades). You're ordering the BLT with cheese so that your descendants can have a pastry.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 16:44 
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:this:

How about Craigy Waigy or Craigmeister?


That was in response to the CG comment that Kalmar done said.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 18:20 
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Unpossible!

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kalmar wrote:
Stop saying CG. EBG is CG.

And Craig is Craig.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 18:31 
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Peculiar, yet lovely

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I agree with Craig and Curio.

[vote: Craster]

I wouldn't be surprised if Mali is right about the Tories storming it at the new few elections, either. The Lib Dems have pissed too many people off, and Labour appear to be led by a man with the skill and charisma of a wardrobe.

Kern wrote:
CG has summed things up pretty well, and he does, indeed, have good formatting. I just can't bring myself to vote in favour of something I disagree with. It's like I'm in a café and they're offering BLTs with or without cheese, but I do not want a BLT but want a pasty.

Oh, and very crafty of the 'No' campaign to redirect http://www.yes2av.org to their pages.


Think of it as voting against FPTP. The alternative we're offered is only marginally better, but it's still better.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 18:39 
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Labour have been pulling in the disaffected LD voters though, not the Tories.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 18:50 
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Craster wrote:
Labour have been pulling in the disaffected LD voters though, not the Tories.
Looks that way, aye.

CON 35%, LAB 42%, LDEM 9% compared to the election's CON 36.1%, LAB 29%, LDEM 23%.

http://today.yougov.co.uk/politics/govt ... e-22nd-mar
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:38 
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I would dearly like to see what happens if the "anarchists" attack the royal wedding, our grannies are going and I know mine for one isn't going to stand for that shit.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:16 
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MR EXCELLENT FACE

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Craster wrote:
Pod wrote:
EXPLAIN


Good Friday, Easter Monday, Royal Wedding Bank Holiday, Mayday Bank Holiday. Two 4-day weekends in a row, take the 3 days off in the middle, spend 11 days at home.


Excellent.
I was a berk and kept looking at 2010's Easter date. We're still in 2010, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:27 
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Decca wrote:
I would dearly like to see what happens if the "anarchists" attack the royal wedding, our grannies are going and I know mine for one isn't going to stand for that shit.

Are they?
My gran didn't tell me that!

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:16 
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Where are you?

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Wullie wrote:
Craster wrote:
Labour have been pulling in the disaffected LD voters though, not the Tories.
Looks that way, aye.
CON 35%, LAB 42%, LDEM 9% compared to the election's CON 36.1%, LAB 29%, LDEM 23%.

I suspect these are skewed somewhat, in a similar manner to the pre-election polling ramping up LD support. Polling outside of YouGov puts the Libs on anything up to 17% now. I doubt they'll get over 20% for the next election, and they're going to lose a hell of a lot of seats, but I can't imagine they're going to be wiped out in the manner some people think.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:18 
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CraigGrannell wrote:
I can't imagine they're going to be wiped out in the manner some people think.

Space voles?

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 13:22 
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Where are you?

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Only 25% of Lib Dems will be eradicated by space voles. Suggesting anything more is just playing into the hands of The Telegraph and The Daily Mail.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 15:51 
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I was canvassed for the local elections yesterday. Not once was the referendum raised. In fact, I've just realised that other than a circular from 'Charter 88', which I think last heard from ten years ago, absolutely no literature has come through my door. The geek in me hopes this situation will change over the next month.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 16:49 
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The chairwoman of my local Labour party (CLP) sent all us members a letter last week asking us vote no to AV. So I'm voting yes. (Said chairwoman was one of my university tutors, and is one of those tedious pseudo-leftwing middle class 'feminists', like Harriet Harman but far worse.) TBH as there isn't an option for switching to PR, I'm too apathetic about all this. If this was a referendum on PR, I'd be out campaigning again...

Incidentally, whilst we're mentioning this wedding business, I'd love a referendum on Britain becoming a republic, because I like democracy. In theory.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 16:57 
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I think a referendum on the Monarchy would result in one significantly in favour of keeping it. Not necessarily because everyone loves the idea of a Monarchy, but because people would see it as a way for politicians to increase their own importance. Plenty of people like the Queen, but plenty of people also hate the idea of "President Blair".


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 17:12 
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Anonymous X wrote:
I'd love a referendum on Britain becoming a republic, because I like democracy. In theory.


Surely the only undemocratic thing about the current setup is the monarch's veto, which has never been used (and never will be)?

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 17:14 
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I mean "In comparison to how it would be if we were a Republic", of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 17:19 
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Squirt wrote:
plenty of people also hate the idea of "President Blair".

I don't.
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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 17:25 
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Which option gets rid of the royal family?

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 17:30 
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During the labour administration I found myself rather glad that we have the monarchy. One of the major reasons to have ours is that the Queen is head of the armed forces and if Blair had gone (even more) insane then she could have ordered them to step in and remove him from power - you better believe they would have done, the armed forces are pretty much cult like with the chain of command.

People think I'm insane when I say this but it's true. There was a incident with Brown a few years ago and the VE memorial in France. Originally it was going to be a small french only ceremony and none of the brits were going, this was fine and dandy but then Obama's people sent through a request that he be invited and the whole thing opened up to a "Heads of State" event.
Problem came when The UK were invited Brown accepted and was headed out there as our head of state, now according to protocol the queen herself has to be invited to these events by some one, normally downing street sorts it out. They didn't and a lot of people said at the time that this was because Brown being the arrogant fuckwad that he is wanted to be the one stood next to Obama and was also blatantly testing the Queen.
This was flat out unarguable treason, fortunately for Brown Obama invited the Queen as his guest, if he hadn't then he would have been arrested by the Queen's guard the second he landed back at Heathrow.

Christ, Brown was a flipping cunt.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 17:32 
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See, it's that sort of bollocks arty farty treason piss about shit historic tradition observing arse that makes me want rid of it all.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 17:58 
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Image Vs Image

don't tell me you don't fucking want it. :hat:

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 17:59 
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I don't want it.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 18:00 
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Even if he tried to run?

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 18:30 
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Gogmagog

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Having a royal family is ace. My life would be much duller without them.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 18:35 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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But without a royal family, we wouldn't all be having an extra day off this year, remember the important things people.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 18:39 
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Gogmagog

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And we'd have some ordinary pensioner on our stamps, money and other things.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 19:00 
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Paws for thought

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I do not see any reason why getting rid of the Monarchy would be a good thing.

The tourist trade would certainly suffer without it.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 19:08 
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Mr Dave wrote:
I do not see any reason why getting rid of the Monarchy would be a good thing.

The tourist trade would certainly suffer without it.


Less tourists in London. Doesn't affect me. Get 'em oot.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 19:10 
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Peculiar, yet lovely

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Mr Dave wrote:
I do not see any reason why getting rid of the Monarchy would be a good thing.

The tourist trade would certainly suffer without it.


People say that, but I'm pretty sure the industry would make it up pretty easily. It's not like tourists come over here and have tea with the queen. There's nothing stopping them touring the usual places and opening mock-ups of the monarchy if it's that missed. Americans are piss easy to rip off, after all - they'll buy anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 19:12 
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MaliA wrote:
And we'd have some ordinary pensioner on our stamps, money and other things.


Probably Liz Smith.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 19:13 
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Mr Russell wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
I do not see any reason why getting rid of the Monarchy would be a good thing.

The tourist trade would certainly suffer without it.


Less tourists in London. Doesn't affect me. Get 'em oot.


The amount of money they bring almost certainly does.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 19:16 
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Mr Dave wrote:
Mr Russell wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
I do not see any reason why getting rid of the Monarchy would be a good thing.

The tourist trade would certainly suffer without it.


Less tourists in London. Doesn't affect me. Get 'em oot.


The amount of money they bring almost certainly does.


I'm pretty sure I'm in no way affected by their money, through either direct or indirect means. I've thought about it quite laterally as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 19:17 
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Chaos theory would suggest that you probably are affect by it somehow.



Then it would transmute into a hippo and melt, or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 19:31 
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Paws for thought

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Mr Russell wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
Mr Russell wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
I do not see any reason why getting rid of the Monarchy would be a good thing.

The tourist trade would certainly suffer without it.


Less tourists in London. Doesn't affect me. Get 'em oot.


The amount of money they bring almost certainly does.


I'm pretty sure I'm in no way affected by their money, through either direct or indirect means. I've thought about it quite laterally as well.


Less money from tourism = more taxes and less spending. And shizzle.

I think you'd be somewhat affected by more taxes.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 19:59 
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Mr Dave wrote:
Mr Russell wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
Mr Russell wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
I do not see any reason why getting rid of the Monarchy would be a good thing.

The tourist trade would certainly suffer without it.


Less tourists in London. Doesn't affect me. Get 'em oot.


The amount of money they bring almost certainly does.


I'm pretty sure I'm in no way affected by their money, through either direct or indirect means. I've thought about it quite laterally as well.


Less money from tourism = more taxes and less spending. And shizzle.

I think you'd be somewhat affected by more taxes.


I don't believe your equation to be as directly simple as that. Therefore I refute your hypothesis.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 20:01 
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Craster wrote:
Surely the only undemocratic thing about the current setup is the monarch's veto, which has never been used (and never will be)?
I agree with you that the monarch's veto is undemocratic and is unlikely to ever be used, I'd just like the option of being able to elect a ceremonial head of state. (Incidentally, realise that Britain becoming a republic is completely inconceivable for the foreseeable.)

Squirt wrote:
I think a referendum on the Monarchy would result in one significantly in favour of keeping it. Not necessarily because everyone loves the idea of a Monarchy, but because people would see it as a way for politicians to increase their own importance. Plenty of people like the Queen, but plenty of people also hate the idea of "President Blair".

Ah, the old strawman that all republics are presidential republics. ;) Most European republics have presidents who are merely ceremonial figureheads. France being the famous exception.

sinister agent wrote:
People say that, but I'm pretty sure the industry would make it up pretty easily. It's not like tourists come over here and have tea with the queen.

Yup. TBH, I've known plenty of people who've not only come to Britain for tourism, but have also settled here, and their reasons for coming to the UK never involve the royal family. (I mean, who here's been to Spain on holiday? Plenty, I imagine. Did you go there specifically because it's a monarchy? Doubt it.)


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 21:09 
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I think people are forgetting that the vast amounts of money brought in via tourism isn't from students on a budget, it's from fat yanks and middle class Japanese*, both have an extraordinarily high regard for the monarchy. We get rid of our monarchy then these people would go strait to Paris (do not collect £200). How could we compete? They have sun, art, wine and all the really cool places they massacred there royals in where as we would have rain and a polite vote in the house of commons.

*the students are the ones you see and may associate with, the middle class stay in the expensive hotels, go to the theater, eat at the restaurants and so on, we can live without the fuck all a night the students spend on hostels although mcdonalds may suffer.

edit: yes but Spain is a shit hole and all it's historical buildings got fucked up by a mental dictator.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 0:27 
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So, we get rid of the monarchy and we have two options: presidential republic or ceremonial figurehead. In the former case, there is no way in hell we'd avoid some political siding, so we end up as the USA, which is the opposite of great. Also, you can bet the sheer amount of money that would be spent, while dwarfed by US presidential run-ins, would cost the country more than the pennies-per-head the monarchy currently costs. As for the latter, I suspect that could be pricey as well, and I bet you'd still end up with class issues regardless.

Personally, I don't really have a problem with the royal family. I don't like them, but they're cheap and reasonably efficient these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 0:53 
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Keep the royal family, but make them get jobs. Proper jobs. Teach the little shits a bit about the world, like.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:44 
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Send them to state schools too, for equality's sake. The kids of government ministers too. Perhaps then the powers-that-be would care about state education other than viewing it as another 'service' to privatise.

Don't think a ceremonial president would cost much. A civil servant gets to be involved with diplomacy, open hospitals and do tedious admin for four or five years. Just one man or woman, no extended family of hangers-on. No problem. ;) Then again, even if it cost, I'd rather have expensive democracy than inexpensive feudalism.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:16 
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*twitch* *grumbles about lefties not ever admitting or caring that the Royals actually do lots of shit jobs already just look at Princess Anne's schedule*

The Queen is 84, Charles is 62 and Prince William is a god damn RAF search and rescue helicopter pilot. Lefty argument fail.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:35 
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I dislike the monarchy (not personally, I couldn't give two shits about any of them) purely because all practical issues aside I can't help feeling that having the class system enshrined in law is harmful and divisive. I think the country would have been a better place by now if we'd murdered them all a few centuries ago or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:52 
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sinister agent wrote:
Keep the royal family, but make them get jobs. Proper jobs. Teach the little shits a bit about the world, like.

When was the last time you were fighting in Iraq?

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:24 
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markg wrote:
I think the country would have been a better place by now if we'd murdered them all a few centuries ago or something.


Poor old George III :( Mad as a hatter by 1811 and somewhat ironically given your post he was the chap that surrendered hereditary revenues (Feudal rights, rent from crown land, post office profits and licences and so on) to parliament in return for a civil list annuity (a flat wage).

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:28 
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Grim... wrote:
sinister agent wrote:
Keep the royal family, but make them get jobs. Proper jobs. Teach the little shits a bit about the world, like.

When was the last time you were putting other soldiers in greater danger for PR purposes in Iraq?

;)

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:29 
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Where are you?

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 1639
Decca wrote:
*twitch* *grumbles about lefties not ever admitting or caring that the Royals actually do lots of shit jobs already just look at Princess Anne's schedule*

The Queen is 84, Charles is 62 and Prince William is a god damn RAF search and rescue helicopter pilot. Lefty argument fail.


^^ This.

Grim... wrote:
sinister agent wrote:
Keep the royal family, but make them get jobs. Proper jobs. Teach the little shits a bit about the world, like.

When was the last time you were fighting in Iraq?


^^ And this.

The Civil List is currently bugger-all (in terms of recipients and cost) and the mooted Sovereign Support Grant replacement looks to be similarly restricted. Given the way the UK follows the US, I just cannot see how any kind of elected president would save the UK a great deal of money, nor be particularly beneficial from a political standpoint. The only major advantage is booting out the incumbent after 'x' years; that said, I'd argue the Queen's done a pretty good job as head of state so far. Would you really prefer her to be replaced by a Tony Blair or a Boris Johnson or some other tosspot that Rupert Murdoch tells everyone to vote for?


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:33 
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Joined: 12th Apr, 2008
Posts: 17757
Location: Oxford
One of the keys to Liz's success is that nobody, other than her family and her 11 prime ministers, actually knows what she thinks about things. I fear that Charles won't be able to keep his mouth shut.

Moreover, whilst the crown has reserve powers, everyone tries their utmost not to involve the Palace in any political decisions: it would, for instance, have been constitutional for her to have picked the prime minister after last year's election and asked him to attempt to form a government, but the convention is that the politicians and the civil service do not put her in a situation where she would be called to do that.


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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 13:59 
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Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27343
Location: Kidbrooke
The monarchy will end when, after a series off odd coincidences, the crown falls to Harry in December 2012, and he asks Camero0n and Clegg outside for a fight.

Needless to say he wins the fight, but is arrested for murder and the country is taken over in a bloodless coup by Rupert Murdoch.

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 Post subject: Re: Official Royal Wedding and Voting System Referendum Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 14:19 
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Curiosity wrote:
the country is taken over in a bloodless coup by Rupert Murdoch.


How would we tell?


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