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 Post subject: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 18:22 
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Mine turned up today, I have read a lot re a £1000 fine if you don't fill it in etc

Question I have is how can the goverment even prove I have recived one?

It was just stuck through my door along with the new phone book, no signiture etc.

Looking at the questions I feel that some of it is fuck all do with the goverment as they have most of the info already.


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 18:24 
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baron of techno

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Not got one. What's it say?


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 18:28 
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I suspect it would be difficult to make a case for the fine. As an example, from the last census, 32 people were successfully fined apparently.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 18:32 
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Of course, if you don't fill it in, you pretty much give up all right to complain that the government don't represent your interests/situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 18:39 
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O RLY?

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 18:46 
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Sure. Because by not filling it in, you're telling the Government that there's less of "Type You" than there actually are, so they'll treat "Type You" as less important in policymaking.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 18:58 
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Comfortably Dumb

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Craster wrote:
Sure. Because by not filling it in, you're telling the Government that there's less of "Type You" than there actually are, so they'll treat "Type You" as less important in policymaking.


... and more type 'Jedi'.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 19:17 
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As is tradition, my ethnicity will naturally be "White Other (Moomin)".

It'll probably be easier to prosecute this time, since we've had ten years of pro-police-state new labour since and fuck knows what they've done to the law here, but I doubt they'll go crazy about it.

Moreover, they couldn't really prove that, for example, you were actually gay.

I dunno if it's actually that influential on government policy. Unless the first question is "do you vote?"

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 19:47 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Each form is individually coded and matched to an address database and they will follow up all non returned forms with visits. Presumably the fines came from people who were visited, were in, and point blank refused to complete.

The database is apparently destroyed before the forms are processed.


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 19:54 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
The database is left on a train before the forms are processed.


Etc.

Oddly enough, my mum was talking about this just now. Specifically, complaining that it was done in "all these languages" like Italian, Korean, etc. But not Gaelic! She's going to make a complaint.

She doesn't speak Gaelic, obviously.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 20:11 
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asfish wrote:
Looking at the questions I feel that some of it is fuck all do with the goverment as they have most of the info already.
Well, they have to get that info somehow. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 20:20 
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sinister agent wrote:
I dunno if it's actually that influential on government policy. Unless the first question is "do you vote?"

I daresay that if a local area was 90% people aged 55 in 2001, and 90% people aged 65 in 2011, they may be influenced to allocate local resources to a new geriatric ward, rather than a primary school.


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 20:36 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
sinister agent wrote:
I dunno if it's actually that influential on government policy. Unless the first question is "do you vote?"

I daresay that if a local area was 90% people aged 55 in 2001, and 90% people aged 65 in 2011, they may be influenced to allocate local resources to a new geriatric ward, rather than a primary school.


You leave your "facts" out of this, logic boy! >:|

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 22:13 
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Anonymous X wrote:
asfish wrote:
Looking at the questions I feel that some of it is fuck all do with the goverment as they have most of the info already.
Well, they have to get that info somehow. ;)



I know but its cost what 300-500 million depending on whom you believe and they can’t even send me a form with my name on it. This info is held by council, banks, credit agencies and land registry yet I get something with “the occupier “on it.

Lots of other questions about your house, its size type rooms etc. that are all a matter of record.

Then there is other stuff such as what sort of heating is in the house, how I travel to work and my job title is nothing to do with the government and I fail to see how that helps them with planning myself.

Just feels like a wast of time and money, not they long ago they were going to flog all our woodland to save 200 million.

It just shows the lack of grip the goverment has on data that could help it plan every year not every 10.


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 22:18 
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The census is a useful historical tool. Comes in handy for all sorts of legal cases, quite apart from more academic uses.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 22:19 
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I really don't see the problem with the census, it takes less than 10 minutes to fill in, fulfils a useful role in forward planning, and there's no real privacy issues with it at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 22:23 
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1) Who lives at your house is only known by all those people if you own a property. If you're a tenant, especially a short-term tenant, it is not known.
2) Again, only a matter of record in circumstances. I knocked my kitchen through to my dining room. The only place that is listed is in the planning application, and that's not tied into any database of what people's houses are laid out like.
3) Heating, how you travel to work - it is to do with the government. Should they be upping subsidies for renewable energy sources? Or for running more gas pipework out to remote locations? Do people in a particular area all drive to work instead of using public transport, and if so why? Maybe it's time to throw some investment into public transport in that region.

Knowing how your country is made up is the first and absolutely most important part of being able to govern it.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 22:32 
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Quote:
3) Heating, how you travel to work - it is to do with the government. Should they be upping subsidies for renewable energy sources? Or for running more gas pipework out to remote locations? Do people in a particular area all drive to work instead of using public transport, and if so why? Maybe it's time to throw some investment into public transport in that region.



Would be nice if that were the case, fact is aside from taking a large duty on fuel the government will do little with any of those things, it’s all down to private companies, there doesn’t need to be anymore empty buses driving around my area with “we have reached our carbon footprint” splashed all over the back :p


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 22:39 
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MaliA wrote:
I really don't see the problem with the census, it takes less than 10 minutes to fill in, fulfils a useful role in forward planning, and there's no real privacy issues with it at all.


Apart from when you send it in the post, obv. And the inevitable breach of security/sale of information by a bored manager. :p

I actually don't have a problem with the basic sense of it, but some of the things they ask are really none of their business and there's no way enough people will be honest & accurate enough about it for it to be trustworthy.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 22:44 
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What things do you think are none of their business? WHich questions do you obkectto, and why?

The most personal question, I think, on it, is "Where do you work?", but that's incredibly useful to find out what people do for a living, as in skilled/unskilled whatever. So good for planning many economic policies, like, for example, funding degree level physics and maths courses.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 22:57 
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MaliA wrote:
What things do you think are none of their business? WHich questions do you obkectto, and why?

The most personal question, I think, on it, is "Where do you work?", but that's incredibly useful to find out what people do for a living, as in skilled/unskilled whatever. So good for planning many economic policies, like, for example, funding degree level physics and maths courses.


Not only that, it's useful for finding out how far people travel to work - which is again important for the transport ministry.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 23:21 
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See, my situation is probably temporary, so I feel bad putting down stuff that won't get changed for 10 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 23:32 
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Gogmagog

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I know why Question 17 is intentionally left blank, though. And I suspect some others do, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 23:44 
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MaliA wrote:
I know why Question 17 is intentionally left blank, though. And I suspect some others do, too.


Something to do with immigrants?

Be interesting to compare the questions to ones from previous years.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 23:45 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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MaliA wrote:
I know why Question 17 is intentionally left blank, though. And I suspect some others do, too.


Me too, boyo.


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 23:46 
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It doesn't actually ask if you are gay which I think is quite disappointing. The only place where they can get that information is in the section about civil partnerships so it's only if you are in a civil partnership that your sexuality is revealed. Apparently this is so as not to intrude on peoples privacy which is odd since they ask questions about religion and employment status. I'd much rather there was at least an optional question to disclose your sexuality if you wished. If it affects policy making then I'd like it to be clear what percentage of the population identifies themselves as LGBT.


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 23:55 
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If gays existed in real life no doubt they would ask about them on the census.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 23:57 
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Names, numbers, and personal details of people who stayed over on a given night. Feck off, reet.

http://twitter.com/#!/DemonJim/status/45087575895052288

The inevitable thousands of clever remarks for Question 17 will provide great amusement to 2111's historians and archivists. Not fair :( I'm thinking of putting "Oh no!"

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 0:52 

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I'm staying out all night.


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 0:53 
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This question 17 mystery has made me go and open my envelope now :(

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:05 
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asfish wrote:
Mine turned up today, I have read a lot re a £1000 fine if you don't fill it in etc

Question I have is how can the goverment even prove I have recived one?

It was just stuck through my door along with the new phone book, no signiture etc.

Looking at the questions I feel that some of it is fuck all do with the goverment as they have most of the info already.


For the love of fuckin'-fuck fill it in, or the poor bastard who's got my job as local librarian will have to explain to your whining family-history obsessed great-grandchildren in 2111 why old Asfish didn't fill in his census thus allowing far off future generations to know precisely who he was shacked up with an what impact this has on the family tree.

Which is my every day fun.

:facepalm:

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:07 
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Also, if it makes you feel any better the government can't release these census returns until a hundred years have passed. Still get people throwing strops over not being able to get a census for 1970, despite them being the first to shout at me about how the council want to pry into their private lives.

DOUBLE FACEPALM! :facepalm: :facepalm:

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:31 
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1971, surely?


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:49 
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The census for 1970 exists and I'm sure people would be able to ask for it, but it would be a little out of date seeing as they did a new one in 1971.

:hat:


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:08 
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DavPaz wrote:
1971, surely?


I blame the drink for that mistake. :belm:

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:12 
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NervousPete wrote:
For the love of fuckin'-fuck fill it in, or the poor bastard who's got my job as local librarian will have to explain to your whining family-history obsessed great-grandchildren in 2111 why old Asfish didn't fill in his census thus allowing far off future generations to know precisely who he was shacked up with an what impact this has on the family tree.

Which is my every day fun.

:facepalm:


:D Got to love the public.

Do you think your successor in a hundred year's time will have to explain that so-and-so was trying to witty when answered the religion question?


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:18 
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NervousPete wrote:
For the love of fuckin'-fuck fill it in, or the poor bastard who's got my job as local librarian will have to explain to your whining family-history obsessed great-grandchildren in 2111 why old Asfish didn't fill in his census thus allowing far off future generations to know precisely who he was shacked up with an what impact this has on the family tree.


Or, worse, bored forum users won't be able to skim the returns for cheap laughs.


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:32 
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We in Wales have additional questions to (at least) those in England. That makes us special or something.

I will have to look at it again now to read (or not) the mythical question 17.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:47 
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Est. 1978

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Someone tell me what Question 17 is!

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:47 
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"This question is intentionally left blank".

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:48 
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Fnord


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:50 
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Unpossible!

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I remember in exams when you'd get 'this a blank page'. I could never resist writing ' no, it isnt' underneath


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:52 
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In fairness, I've always felt slightly uneasy when reading club by-laws or other regulations and I see something like:

Code:
4.b No member shall dance the Morris on club time without the consent of the Committee
4.c This section is kept blank


Why would you pass an empty rule? I think they're out to get us.


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:53 
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Est. 1978

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DavPaz wrote:
I remember in exams when you'd get 'this a blank page'. I could never resist writing ' no, it isnt' underneath

So did I. Which probably was a good laugh for the people marking it, as they could say "Well, I categorically know you're not as smart as you think you are, dick."

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:54 
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My question 17 is not blank! According to the internets and my memory.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:57 
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Alarm wrote:
My question 17 is not blank! According to the internets and my memory.

He's one of them! Damn non-blankers! Get him!


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:59 
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I did say that I was one of the special ones.

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:04 
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Alarm wrote:
My question 17 is not blank! According to the internets and my memory.


Ooh - what was it then?

Bearing in mind that you'd never have seen anything to fill in if you did it on the internet.

Also - shock news! A government-funded website that actually worked pretty damned well!

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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:07 
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Alarm wrote:
I did say that I was one of the special ones.


You've been picked for Vault 101?


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 Post subject: Re: Census
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:07 
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Room 101.

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