Be Excellent To Each Other

Given that you can, for about 25k and upwards, pick up a Ferrari nowadays off the second hand/pre disastered market, I've gotten to thinking why you tend to see more older Porsches that cost about that price than the Ferraris.

Why?

Because there are more Porsches produced.

Oh, that wasn't nearly as exciting as I thought it would be.

Maintenance on an old Ferrari is sky high. You can retain the value on the £25kish models but you really need to drive it about 6 miles a week max and know what you're doing with them.

I saw some advert in Car magazine this month for financing a Ferrari 360 Modena and found, to my bemusement, that if I ever do manage to sort my debts out (hopefully by around this point next year or so), it wouldn't be beyond the realms of imagination.

Of course, as Trousers says, actually keeping it on the road probably would be.

Are you planning to go on a Top Gear inspired adventure?

Bear in mind that they're fucking awful cars. They're difficult to drive, small to sit in but huge to park, uncomfortable and noisy as sin.

I once was stuck in a traffic jam for hours. There was a Ferrari in front of me ( can't remember what model ) and I was sitting there wondering, as we crept forward 10 yards once every five minutes, how much each yard traveled was costing him in deprecation of his fancy car. Hot sun, engine running, starting and stopping constantly.

Whereas he was thinking about how much interest he was earning

I was clinging to my one small victory in life, and now you've torn it away from me.

Of course for really not considerably more, you could have this...

Yeah BUT it's worth getting one for a couple of months just to drive around in summer with Magical Sound Shower (Euro Remix) on at full pelt surely?

I read an article in Top Gear magazine a few years ago on something similar. The massive headline on the cover was slong the lines of 'We buy a ferrarri for Mondeo money'.

They essentially picked up a very old one that was never really very popular (a Mondial I think). It proved to be a massive money-pit and a bit crap, unreliable and stuff. A few months later they admitted it had been terrible and that they had sold it on for 'Daewoo dosh'.

More Porsches are produced, and barring serious high end models, Porsches are nowhere near as expensive as even basic Ferraris when new.

One day I'll do this. Well, I say 'day', it'd be more 'minute' as I'd be wrapped round a tree in no time.

£25k will get you a brand new Arial atom - something that I'm currently eyeing up as a distant future purchase.

I think they're incredibly beautiful, and they're around the fifth fastest car ever to go around the Top Gear track. Fifth! For only £25k!

WHAT?

What car are you referring to? The Ferrari 360 is one of the finest cars of its era and having driven one myself I can say that it's the most impressive car I've ever driven. Absolutely fantastic. For reference purposes I've driven a lot of high performance cars including a Gallardo, a DB9, my dad's TVR Griffith, a seriously turbo'd Impreza, an RS4 and various lesser performance cars. Without sounding like a cunt, hopefully.

The 360 is light and nimble, not huge in any way shape or form - smaller than a Mondeo easily. Also, noisy as sin? The noise is the best bit. The 360's V8 in full-chat is one of the finest noises ever. But it was nothing but civilised at low speeds. And uncomfortable? If you consider gorgeous leather seats with a load of buttons for adjustment, plenty of leg and head room (I'm 6'2") uncomfortable.

Damn it, man. I hope you were referring to something else.

A 360 is indeed lovely (I've been a passenger), but you'll struggle to get one for much less than £60k.
My mother has a Griffith, BTW.

Actually, for 25k you're probably looking at a 328 (a beautiful car), or a pretty haggard 355 (a fantastic car). I don't think you could accuse any Ferrari of being large and difficult to drive. Not any from the 80's onwards anyway. Perhaps barring the F40, but that's a beast. And also not exactly huge and difficult to park. Or affordable for even ten times the price we're talking about.

Hah, really? What type? Colour? My dad has a blue Griff 500 and a (currently) off-the-road TVR 390SE Wedge (the ultimate in 80's ugly-but-beautiful).

Pic of a 390SE here: http://www.pistonheads.com/tvr/tvr/images/390-09.jpg

(Not his).

The 355 is also a lovely car, but I'd run a mile from one that cheap. The 328 is actually one I have driven, and it was a bit of a dog, to be fair. Once I'd got over the "OMG it's a Ferrari" stage it got quickly annoying. Of course, it may have just been a bad one (it was a US LHD version).

[edit]It's a 'gunmetal grey' 500. She drives that in the summer, and a Morris Minor 1000 in the winter. The last time I saw her in the TVR she had a bale of hay in the passenger seat

Hah! Now the Griff is a beast. It's a lot smaller than you'd imagine, but the visibility is a bit poor thanks to the long bonnet and low ride height. Oh, and the 5 litre V8 makes it a bit nose-heavy and tail-happy. Serious fun, though. And the seats are like sofas.

Mine's really noisy though.

Is that rhyming slang?

For the money, it's hard to beat a TVR Griffith 500 IMO. Yeah, lots of them are unreliable and opening the doors from the inside is a joke, but they're so fast and cost about £12k

Yeppo! Speed is incomparable to anything else I've driven. Barring the 360, but that thing was so light and nimble it was a different beast altogether.

My experience in Gran Tourismo is that TVRs don't do corners at all. They're very American, it seems.

Obviously they could be somewhat different in real life...

The Griff also just predates TVR deciding incorrectly they can make engines.

My boss has a V6S which is very nice.

Different they are.

The double VANOS in my M3 has gone - hopefully a change of its oil filter, gasket and bolts, plus a de-gunk of the solenoids and new oil as the service is due, will fix it up nice. If not, apparently the cam gears (which come with the VANOS gear that causes the 'engine full of marbles' noise) are about £250 plus a couple of hours cheap, local labour, rather than the famed £2.5k that BMW charge for just replacing the whole lot en masse.

Still, having budgeted £2k over 2 years on top of normal running costs (service, tyres, tax, insurance) - well, that's pretty much gone in a year, on a 10/11 year old car that was "only" £47k new (and cost me £7k). No end in sight, and more to the point plenty on the "todo before being able to sell it with a clear conscience" list. It does put a damper on my desires to eventually upgrade a 911, or TVR, or anything of the sort.

Sometimes the American method makes sense, a Vauxhall Monaro will never need the sort of long-term expense a European 300+bhp car does.

I do still love the cunt though.

I'd imagine cornering a TVR is a more extreme form of the mental adjustment I've had to do with the M3 - too gingerly and it wants to go straight on, but give it too much beans and you'll be looking (briefly) at where you just came from before the pearly/firey gates appear.

Just right, though, and it's all the way.

The latest fun drive in real life is my dad's most recent classic car purchase, a TR4A 2.1 litre. Light, soft top, very low, and a decent sized, well tuned engine on it. Quite springy suspension though, like the MGB he bought before this one, which leads to some fun corners. I'm tempted to buy the MGB off him and put an old Rover V8 in it (a fashion of the time with Spitfires), as the space under the bonnet leaves plenty of possibilities.

Goodness - my mother also owned a TR4A, but she didn't like it (which is a shame, because it's one of the prettiest cars about, IMO - linky) and got rid of it. Does your dad's one have the wire wheels?

Oh but of course it does. As does the B. Anything else in the wheel department would look weird.

He also has a fairly mighty collection of Norton motorbikes, which I need to learn how to ride.

My dad collects old motorbikes (to go with his traction engine, obv) - he's got a Triumph, a Vincent and a... Venus? Verus? A really, really old one. He's also got my old Yamaha DT50

Heh.

Dad's are all Nortons - Jubilees and Electras, mostly.

At the other end of the scale, my brother goes through a succession of insanely high powered modern bikes like Kawasaki Ninjas, which scare me just to look at, let alone riding on the back of.

I'm gonna get me a Harley.

Aw, man - every time I walk to work there's one of these parked outside the Channel 4 building

Pretty much every night I say to Mrs. Grim... "Woman! I'm buying myself a Kawasaki Ninja!" and she says "No you're not!"

My brother loves his. It really, really terrifies me.

I've got my fucking license and I haven't say on a bike for years (except for a mates piss-poor 400cc Honda that I had to rag the shit out of to get it to a ton). I. Want. One.

Mrs Chris has suggested I get a licence and get a bike, as it may help me get home from work quicker past the traffic (her words).

I love her so very, very much.

heh, my dad has a TR6. If your dad is in Gloucestershire, and into the car club thing the chances are that he'll meet my dad.

Yes people do get out of the way of ambulances in traffic

He's signing up to the Triumph one, yes, and is already an MG club member, so it's likely they'll come across each other. Small world, eh?



Oh shush, you. It'll be great.

Mr Chris on the way home from work, yesterday:

*sniggers*

They truly are amazing motors - I'd certainly be very tempted. As it stands, the humble Lotus Elise is currently riding high as a serious contender for my next car when it comes time to trade in my current motor next year. Does this make me a very silly person indeed? I know they're grossly impractical, but the vast majority of my driving is on the motorway where the only things being carried are myself and my small work bag.

I was considering an Elise. I'd look like a bit of a bellend trying to get in and out of it, though. With the lankiness and everything. Also considering a 944 and an Integra Type R. Decisions decisions!

Except that ain't a Ninja.

And it would be a BAD thing to say that the Z750 is available on 0% finance at the moment. Wouldn't it?

So I won't.

EDIT: the ZX10R and the 6R and the ZThou is as well.

I've got an Elise as my only car, and it's surprisingly practical. It's also the longest I've owned a car - I've had 7 years so far and its been very reliable.

It's quick, if not exactly fast in terms of top speed, very good on petrol even if you rant it. However, it will make most other cars feel like your driving a bus.

I'm very tempted to buy a convertible when I get rid of the 3 series. I like the look of MX-5s, I'm sad to say. Plus, they're cheap.

That or I'll just by an MGB or Midget.

Replies to various people: I am also too tall for an Elise, and found the one I had a go in to be a bit underpowered for what I was expecting.
That's right, it's a Z1000 - but Ninja's are so cheap on eBay at the moment
MX-5?