Be Excellent To Each Other

...yes...?

I've lost track of how many times my dog has killed me.

I readily concede my feelings on this issue have been coloured by my daughter's experience, she is terrified of dogs after she got knocked over and 'greeted in a friendly manner' by a large dog in the park.

Perhaps my problem is more with the owners who take their dogs where dogs aren't supposed to go, or let their dogs run around where they're supposed to be on a lead, or let them shit all over the place despite the big NO DOG SHIT PLEASE sign five feet away.

It's not the dog's fault that humanity has decided to have a scarcely domesticated smelly wolf as one of its favourite companions (and no they're not 'loyal' they just recognise you as being the leader of their pack), but then again I'm just wanting to live in human world without having to run the gauntlet of numbskulled instinctive predators sizing up me and my daughter as a potential target or threat to their pack or whatever the hell it is goes through their tiny minds.

IT WAS JUST BEING FRIENDLY! Well OK, not this time, but usually it is.

And that's before we account for brain eating zombie dogs! KILL THEM WITH FIRE!

I don't think anyone here would argue with you that there are many inconsiderate dog owners, and ones who are incapable of effectively training their dogs, or correctly restraining them when in inappropriate places. That's rarely the fault of the dog, though.

And that's why we've spent this entire thread looking at the numbers. As it turns out, the amount of dog attacks means that being jumped by a dog is an incredibly low risk, much lower than the regularly cited crossing of the road. Hence the discussion - is fear of dogs irrational, given the low risk of an attack, or is it a sane response to something which could feasibly be a dangerous animal?

I am sure it isn't hence my asking about how to work around this. Advice has been useful, though, thanks.

The thing is, the cases I listed above were people who had supposedly trained their dogs well. Certainly not cases of owners at fault (Or at least if it was, then 95% of all owners are as guilty of bad training), just a case of Dogs being by nature pack predators.

Then you clearly smell like a chew toy.

I agree it's low risk, but it's high impact - one serious dog attack can leave a person scarred or maimed for a life, or flat out kill them. (And it's not a quick kill either.)

Most people have either been attacked by a dog, or know someone who has, with varying degrees of severity - when an experience becomes as common as that (even if it's statistically rare compared to having a poo, for example), I don't think you can classify a 'fear of dogs' as irrational (or rather, a fear of larger dogs and/or certain breeds).

That said I believe it's a bit more complicated than that, and it's a more a case of 'fear of dogs + fear of idiotic twats incapable of looking after their pet' (or indeed, people who obtain a specific type of dog purely as a weapon).

At the end of the day you have no way of telling in advance if any given dog is well looked after and/or what its owner's intentions are - hence a degree of fear (fear being a natural response to a demonstrated risk) is probably rational IMO.

And that still doesn't take into account the relatively rare but 'it does happen' case of a 'good' dog going batshit crazy and attacking someone.

The guy who took this was dead half a second later. We never did find the body; nothing but some bloody scraps of clothing.

961,188 assaults committed during 2007/08 in the UK, all by so-called "good" babies that grew up and just went batshit insane. When will people learn? Babies are just vicious pack predators.

Your dog has the capacity to attack and kill someone, given a certain set of circumstances and its instinctive response over which you have no control, however much you may or may not delude yourself to the contrary.

If someone pokes it in the eye with a stick enough, they probably had it coming, if a newborn baby mewls and jerks in a particular way (triggering the 'prey' response) in a set of circumstances with certain people/other dogs/whatever, a combination of factors that you have no way whatsoever of understanding or predicting, then your dog would take a human life.

The rest of us shouldn't have to put up with that risk, in a saner society than ours, we'd mitigate it accordingly.

For the avoidence of doubt, you are claiming with a straight face that my dogs should be put down because the risk of them killing someone is too great?

And yet, I can find no documented guinea pig attacks. Aside from this one



And indeed, no real mention of cat attacks, despite cats supposedly being less friendly than dogs.

Right, so if you were to have the same dog population as human population, and have them solely regulated by dogs (so no leads, or external training) do you not think the number of dog v dog attacks would be quite considerably higher?

Putting up with other people is pretty much what society is. Why should I have to put up with the risk from your child running in front of my car and denting the bodywork?

Again, we're meandering from the point.
Yes, dogs can injure and maybe even kill people. But it's very, very rare, so there isn't any need to be scared of every dog you see. Lots of everyday things can injure and maybe even kill people, and we shouldn't be scared of them either.

Pish. I looked awesome wi' that handbag & I have no sense of shame anyway. It just made me appear like "a good boyfriend".*
*One of Colin's pals bumped into me in Morrisons last night & asked if we were still together.** His missus saw us on her lunch break & thought we made a lovely couple
**Just for clarification, me & Gill have never dated.

And yet no other regular pet has a reputation for injuring and killing people. For the most part because they're not predators, and in the cats case, because it's a solitary predator and so only goes after things smaller than it.

Dogs, meanwhile, can attack for whatever reason. Because someone went near its food, or its owner, or simply because it wants to assert dominance. Or because it fancies some fun ear sex. And in my experience, it's not that rare.

Dave it's probably because they sense your fear of them and assert their dominance because of that.
in my experience dogs are generally fine if you arent scared of them.

Meanwhile, my fictional friend Larry, who is deathly scared of Guinea pigs, Rabbits and Cats doesn't have to not be scared in order to avoid a potential mauling.

I bet you'd be scared of a great dane sized cat.

As pets, they're not noted for being commonly that size.

I wouldn't leave a baby alone with a rabbit, with those hind legs it could kick its face clean off.

I wouldn't go so far as that, I appreciate that people are emotionally attached to their pets, but I don't see any good reason for us to continue breeding dogs as pets into the future.

When the current incumbents die out, that should be the end of the 'domesticated' wolf.

"Dog's aren't dangerous!"

I wouldn't leave a baby alone.

*Re-reads*

That could look very bad. You know what I mean.

Let's just reflect for a moment, and remember the tale of the boy that fed the wolf.

Cats attack all the time. A mild gouging is rarely headline news, however.

Yeah, I know what you mean...

A mild gouging is just that. Mild.

Not, say, permanently disfiguring or disabling.

People like them, is a perfectly good reason. Or should we just ban everything that people like if it carries with it some risk, regardless of the actual level?

No, no, you're missing the point. We should only ban the things Atrocity Exhibition doesn't like. Children good, dogs bad.

I can understand the fear that a lot of people have for dogs since I was scared of dogs for most of my life. My fear was triggered by an event when I was three or four. I was sitting on the floor at my aunts house and her brother came in with his dog off the lead. The dog was huge and bounded over to me and apparently I was scared of them ever since then. I wasn't hurt, just got a fright.
Obviously there are some dogs that are dangerous but I think you are most likely to encounter these dogs in certain areas. I have never encountered a dangerous and really scary dog-even though I remained terrified of them throughout my life, the 'worst' that ever happened was a dog sniffing in my direction as it wandered past in a park.
The idea that dogs would attack a baby if given half a chance without fail is ridiculous. My girlfriends family had a golden retriever who sadly died last year. When my girlfriends youngest sister (aged eight) was born, the dog stopped sleeping in her bed and spent every night guarding the bedroom the baby slept in.

I would also like to say (as if I haven't already managed to incorporate my new puppy into almost every post I've made recently ) that I have had some pretty huge things happening in my life recently and these events have changed my life hugely and irreversibly. Since getting my puppy I have been so much happier, calmer and confident. The change has been noticeable enough for people close to me to notice it and for me to take huge steps that I haven't managed in the last three months. This thread has been largely negative about dogs and dog ownership so I just wanted to add this for the sake of balance. Willow in a few short days has done more for me and my health than countless tablets and counselling sessions could ever achieve.

Fuck that, I hate kids. Why don't we ban them instead? Then we could die out leaving guinea pigs, puppies & cats to rule the earth

I really don't see any reason for a bunch of shaved apes to carry on existing. They're by far the most vicious, dangerous & destructive animal alive today.

I don't have much to say here, but I don't like dogs as a rule and find them smelly and annoying, though I wish them no harm, especially well behaved ones with responsible owners.

Gill, I saw your puppy in the other thread, and she's lovely. I'm not a dog person but I can appreciate a cute puppy when I see one.

@Gill I have seen pictures of you and your pup, and you look beautifully happy. I'm sure Willow will bring you limitless joy.

I only loved one dog, my Scallywaggles. She wasn't young when we got her, and in terrible shape, rescued from an abusive person, but she was an absolute gem. By goodness she was scruffy, but she was so loving, and liked to eat cheese. Especially Edam.

I don't think many people think that all dogs are horrid, but though I knew Scally, I don't know any other dogs on the street. I am weary of my brother's dog because it is bigger and stronger than I am, and growls a lot (which my brother may call 'talking', but which really unsettles me). I would give your puppeh a cuddle in a flash. Larger dogs, not so much, but then I suppose the fear of the potential of any 'strange' (unknown) dog is enough to make me not want one to run at full pelt at me in the park as it barks.

I think everyone would feel a lot more comfortable with dogs if some owners were a bit more sensitive to the fact that not everyone likes their pet, and the 'oh, he's only playing!' line does not make it OK to have a strange muddy, growling dog jump all over you, when not everyone likes dogs barking and jumping all over them.

That's probably where the dog got it from then.

I've just nearly had my cock bitten off by a very high frame rate that never dropped below 60fps!

Kill it in the face!

That's such a n00b thing to say, remember how much older and wiser he is...

Let's not forget all the mountain rescue cats, police guinea pigs and and hearing mice for the deaf. Our society would be much weaker without them.

Oh, thanks for reminding me Zardoz. I was going to ask, specifically Atrocity Exhibition; what are your views on support dogs such as guide dogs for the blind? I was wondering about it while I was clearing up the dinner dishes.

You needed Willow to guide you to the sink?

I'll love if I can train her well enough to help me clear the dishes!

If you put them on the floor dirty I guarantee they'll be clean when you pick them up again in the morning

I'd like a guide goldfish.

Yeah, but it'd only ever take you to the castle.

this thread is full of sarcasm. I approve