Be Excellent To Each Other

In what regard? I'm curious about your experience as my only recent trip to the south of Britain was London which also felt like a different country but only because, well, it's London and nothing should really be measured by what people think there.

It's the little things really. The most noticebale difference was the large number of flags everywhere, continually reminding us that this is Scotland. Outside of Cornwall, I don't tend to see many flags of any kind. Nothing wrong with civic or national pride, of course, but noticeable that they wanted to emphasise it.

Similarly, the few musuems I went to would refer to Scotland's history, geology, and place in the world*. Sure, no doubt these biasas are in English museums too, but it felt very obvious to the outsider.

Listening to Radio 4 in the car I realised that some of the domestic issues being discussed were irrelevant to where we were due to the different legal and education systems etc.

All in all, very much a list of things that adds up to nothing much, but still noticeable. Like how when you cross the Channel and the light in France looks, well, different.

*Admittedly, I did smile at the large display in the big one in Glasgow about colonial atrocities carried out by Scots, which must have been curated with a knowing wink towards the Mel Gibson school of Scottish historiography.

Interesting. I must be blind to all the flags because outside of the odd product icon that seemingly makes EBJ froth at the mouth I couldn't tell you the last time I consciously registered seeing a Saltire anywhere.

By the way, other than the bagpipers, I really liked Edinburgh.

Hmm, well, if you spent time in Edinburgh that would certainly explain the flag overload. It's a nice enough place but it feels very 'Disneyland Scotland' when I'm there and I certainly wouldn't generalise an experience there out to the rest of the country. You'll probably see more cliched Scottish shit on a ten minute walk down Princes Street or The Royal Mile than you would in a whole year in Glasgow. I'm slightly biased against it because I used to work up there so my only experience of it for years was a soul-crushing daily commute. These days I can enjoy it as a pretty place to wander around in for a few hours but it always still feels weirdly fake to me.

Although I realise I'm sort of half-apologising or trying to explain away the idea that there might be a lot of Scottish flags around and I'm not sure why I'm doing that. Well, actually, I do: it's because I seem to have internalised the implication by a few people here that there's something wrong with it which is bullshit and I need to stop taking that idea seriously. It's a shame that displays of the British flag are looked at with suspicion due to associations with the BNP et al but there's no such problem with the Saltire so fuck it, why not? And while some people will always let their patriotism shade over into horrible nationalism there's no reason to assume more people aren't doing it just because they like their country (without somehow hating any others), which is not only perfectly fine it's even laudable.

Oh, I've no problem with that at all either. One of the more refreshing things about the last World Cup was the displays of German patriotism, suggesting that the country was now more comfortable with itself and its achievements since 1945.

I did notice that at the border on the M1, the English side had a Union Flag, a St George Flag, and one for Northumberland, whilst the three poles on the other side were all flying the saltaire.

Personally, I would have settled for a 'You are now leaving the Roman Empire' sign.

The general opinion (although it's not mine), is that they're doing a good job. This is demonstrated by a lot of people voting SNP who aren't remotely nationalist, or even Scottish, voting for the people who they think are the best left-leaning socialist types.

The fact is that it's a comparatively piddly little government, managing a mere 5 million people but demanding all of the pomp, scale and prestige of a government 10 times its population size (i.e. rUK). That and the economy is massively subsidised c/o Barnett from people they despise. I imagine their popularity would plummet if they had to do something as grown up as managing their own finances, which is precisely why they now don't want that, Oil prices through the floor and their independence economic plans exposed as an utter joke.

The inability to command or demand equivalent respect really eats them up. Hence the fierce nationalism, the flag-waving, and the disruptive naysaying of anything they think they can poke their noses in to. Like I've said before, it's a chip-on-shoulder mentality through and through.

I live in Edinburgh and I don't think Kern is the type to confuse cheesey tourist shops with the general over-inflation of nationalism I've spoken about before. There are some points of the Scottish ways that I quite enjoy, including the pipes. But not when it's overhyped into a crass parody of itself at all times, and for political ends. That makes you end up really rather hating it.

One thing I will say is that I notice more Saltires in ned-ridden bad areas of the city, much like you'd expect English flags to be disproportionately sported by idiot racist chavs. Somehow though the Scottish demand that you consider these examples to be respectable pride at ones country, yet the same isn't afforded to like-minded chaps in England. Perhaps I'll start snapping pictures whenever I see a Saltire for some reference material.

As an aside on Foxhunting - I can only assume the movement to relax the law is lip-service to the red-jacket wearing, horse-riding horn-tooting toffs that also support the Tories. I identify with them not at all and would find it vaguely amusing to see them hunted by huge packs of foxes. The fact the move was doomed to fail probably upsets very few in government; it's just a move to keep a section of their traditional wealthy supporters happy. 'Hey look, at least we tried'.

Heh. As ever, the Daily Mash has it about right.

I hate to intrude on private grief you understand, but......

It really isn't an inspiring set of candidates is it.

That said, when Cameron steps down pretty much all the alternatives are too hideous to contemplate.

My money remains on Boris.

He's not having a good time with his pet projects at the moment though, is he?

Out on a limb here, but I really wouldn't be surprised if Cameron had a 'Blair moment' and decided that yes, actually he fancied another term as PM in government after all, when the time comes.

Boris is a clown, Osborne will forever be tainted by 'omnishambles' (and besides is still widely regarded as a bit of a bogeyman, although his PR stock is slowly improving over time). Say what you like about Cameron, but it can't be denied he's a clever, clever politician who has negotiated some pretty damn choppy waters/hazards these last 5 years and has come out on top every single time where it counts, where most others surely would've foundered. Actually I think he's a bit of a silent destroyer type; oft underestimated, especially by his political foes. (Yep, I'm particularly looking at you "big" Eck...).

I think that is pretty close to it, Cavey.

*bangs on desk*

Heh

I'm trying to imagine DC tucking into a full rack of ribs but fortunately can't.
With Salmond, though, I struggle to imagine him not doing so...

I am happy to believe that DC has at some point pushed a meddling reporter in front of a train.

Spoilers, man, jeez.

If you live in the internet age, give a shit about politics, and haven't netflixed all of House of Cards by this point then I don't care

Francis Urquhart > David Cameron

Cameron says he's a fan of the show. I'm sure he idolises the charismatic, scheming, quick-witted bastard. Like a doctor who goes around thinking he's like fucking House, but everyone else just thinks he's a cunt.

Eccleston wasn't that bad!

You may say that, I couldn't possibly comment.

Reasoned political debate, there. Criticising someone for what they look like; sound like (presumably - as why else would you refer to her as a "chav"?); and based on where they come from (which isn't the entirely fictional (but I'm sure self-pleasingly patronising) "Glasgae" that you mention, but an entirely different town called Paisley).

Stay classy.

Heeee-fucking-larious that everyone else will criticise Cameron for every single one of those aspects, simply replacing 'chav' with 'toff' and suddenly that's perfectly fine.

Hi Stephen, bye Stephen. Your contribution was as worthwhile as ever.

There was a relative uproar in the other thread just because someone kept calling Osborne 'Gideon' instead. The fact that barely anyone has even responded to you attacking a politician for being an ugly chav is likely a function of how little they expect from you by now.

I thought the connotations of chav were that the person was poorly educated and regularly demonstrating anti social behaviour. So I would argue that Stephen was totally correct in challenging you on that point.

Hmm, well, I do think EBG does have a point to an extent at least, I mean we're calling Cameron a "cunt" on this very page? I don't have much of a problem with this myself (chuckled, actually ), that's just Mark, that's just me, EBG and so on. I think if you're a politician and therefore in public office you're pretty much fair game? (Especially here!)

In terms of this young lass, personally I think it's hugely impressive she's got herself elected as an MP, what is she, 20-odd years old? (I shudder to think what my parliamentary speech would've been like at such a tender age, or how I would've looked... )

Of course, I dislike the SNP intensely as a Party and think they are demonstrably and totally fiscally and politically incompetent, as well as disingenuous and unprincipled. But this doesn't detract from her personal achievement to get elected as an MP and to be able to handle this kind of public exposure and pressure, which I most certainly could not have done, and would struggle even now.

If I believed her election was meritorious and not the idiotic Scottish voting for anything with an SNP sticker attached to it, I might agree. These people would elect a traffic cone if it could maintain the nationalist party line. If she actually wrote that speech entirely by herself I'll eat my hat. I doubt it had so much of a tap of a hammer from her personally, not that I found the content impressive regardless.

And Bamba, as for what SNP-supporters and the like think of me... pffft. I think I can cope. I'm sorry that I find a bottle-blonde butt-ugly SNP chav all of those things, although I'll repeat my main issue is with the politics. The fact the whole package is horrifying to behold is quite by the by.

Hi!


Yeah, those type of arguments are always the best - and definitely help raise the level of debate generally. "Someone said something worse elsewhere first!". Great stuff.

The point wasn't that I was offended at what you said; more that you're generally so quick to belittle others for the quality of their arguments. As Bamba points out, people have complained about similar elsewhere on here (rightly).

But hey, we all get annoyed sometime and have said worse - and as Cavey points out, you'd have to be pretty thin skinned as a politician not to somewhat expect it. So I'm sure it was a one-off and you might offer some actual constructive criticism soon.


Oh.

Never mind then.


Bye!

I do find it amusing this guy is mute lurker except to occasionally take a pop at me. If only you had the courage to post some of your opinions here Stephen maybe I could also appear at intervals to whine a little and then disappear.

These people would elect a traffic cone if it could maintain the nationalist party line.

Does it really matter who or what maintains the SNP? Might as well be Spongebob Squarepants as long as he gets the job done nice and proper. And by "nice and proper" I mean not letting kids starve in their constituency.

Just to clarify, I called him that name twice in one post.

As to your second sentence, I think you can accurately judge my opinion without my need to type it.

Says the guy that's been talking to himself in his own 'hardcore' politics thread for the last few weeks. This place is quite the wheeze at times.

Politics, not each other*.

Unless one of you is a politician, I guess.

*That's not just EBG, that's all of you

I talk to myself all the time in threads. If my post count was reliant on other people responding to me I'd never post anything.

Life expectancy is sadly lower in Scotland than elsewhere, so it's not surprising that a generation is a shorter period of time up there.

BBC: "SNP manifesto to reveal possible second referendum timetable"

I do like how Sturgeon is phrasing it:



'I don't really want to do this...oh no, not now...oh must I?...oh, since you insist...'

Given their economic plans are in tatters given the crashing of the oil price, and the fact that they don't even want full fiscal autonomy now because there's a massive gap between spending and income, just what the fuckity fuck are these twats thinking?

Oh that's right, it was never actually about the reasoned argument. It's independence at all costs, any cost. Unless the industry recovers massively they're not going to be able to roll out the 'oil will pay for everything' shit again.

You stay classy there son.

It was an apt observation given that a) It's true, and b) A completely fair commentary on the SNP being FULL OF FUCKING SHIT about the 'once in a generation' promise.

I can see someone's posted right after me but I can't actually see it. I do hope it's EBG bitterly swearing his pretty little ass off at me for no reason. And if it's not him it's some other asshole so who cares really?

Whenever someone makes a post like this it's always really obvious they've written what I've said but rather than have the balls to respond they pretend they haven't read it. You're fooling nobody wee man.

Grow up, the pair of you.

I'll assume you're talking to Bamba's balls there. Eeeey-o!

It's ok, he can pay the fine out of his donations.

He's got a good beard these days - I approve.

Well, the Bill passed the Commons last night. Truth be told, it's been a while since I read it or followed much of the debate. Suffice to say it's either not worth the paper it's written on or is a generous and extensive devolution of powers that meets or exceeds your interpretation of 'the Vow'. You pays your money, you takes your choice.

Interesting piece here by Alex Bell, Salmond's ex-policy supremo, pretty much saying SNP case for independence totally sucks, as far as I can make out.

http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is- ... or-shut-up

As you can imagine, hot on the heels of the recent comprehensive debunking of certain other cornerstone 'reference material' stuff this last few weeks, this has caused a few ruffled feathers too, by all accounts.

Tell me about the latter point, please.