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PC gaming hardware thread.
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5402
Page 90 of 119

Author:  Cras [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 22:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
A description of Retpoline, a Google-developed binary patching technique which protects against the bugs and claims to have almost no performance penalty (I have no insider information here, I’m quoting the doc): https://security.googleblog.com/2018/01 ... cpu_4.html


Interesting. I note they also say they've rolled out the KPTI OS patches in addition to that mitigation.

Author:  myp [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 0:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

I'm not reading all that. Can you make it into a 1 hour YouTube video please?

Author:  Nemmie [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

I don't think PCs should be triangular.

Author:  asfish [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Just about finished patching a 200 CPU farm running on SUSE

This is normaly used by scientists 24\7 so would have been a good test to see if there were performace drops

However they all like to use the GPU farm these days, so had to ask them to run some benchmarks and come back to me

There is a plan to increase\replace some CPU this year so interested to see what performace impact there is as it will affect what we need to buy.

Author:  GazChap [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Re: Meltdown/Spectre

Maybe I'm just an old-fashioned arse, but the idea of the CPU running code that it hasn't (yet) been explicitly told to run is horrifying to me.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

GazChap wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Re: Meltdown/Spectre

Maybe I'm just an old-fashioned arse, but the idea of the CPU running code that it hasn't (yet) been explicitly told to run is horrifying to me.

Well, to be fair, branch prediction and speculative execution is decades old and a significant speed up compared to not having it so... It’s worth noting that Itanium apparently doesn’t suffer from this because (I’m told) it enforces thread-level memory protection on cache lines. But the market didn’t want Itanium, it wanted more teetering hacks piled on top of x86.

Don’t forget your Intel CPU is also running an entire OS in microcode, too, with remote access and everything. In fact there’s three whole layers of stuff under your kernel you can’t see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine The days of CPUs dumbly chewing through in-order ASM instructions ended 20 years ago, we just didn’t notice at the time.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Or as my old internet buddy put it on the day Meltdown was announced

https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/948820694376173569



Author:  Hearthly [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

GazChap wrote:
Maybe I'm just an old-fashioned arse, but the idea of the CPU running code that it hasn't (yet) been explicitly told to run is horrifying to me.


It'd be fine if Intel didn't design their CPU architecture as Linus Torvalds gracefully phrased it, like 'shit'.

Author:  MaliA [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Hearthly wrote:
GazChap wrote:
Maybe I'm just an old-fashioned arse, but the idea of the CPU running code that it hasn't (yet) been explicitly told to run is horrifying to me.


It'd be fine if Intel didn't design their CPU architecture as Linus Torvalds gracefully phrased it, like 'shit'.


Why does a peanuts character have an opinion on transistors?

Author:  myp [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Good grief

Author:  Cras [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Hearthly wrote:
GazChap wrote:
Maybe I'm just an old-fashioned arse, but the idea of the CPU running code that it hasn't (yet) been explicitly told to run is horrifying to me.


It'd be fine if Intel didn't design their CPU architecture as Linus Torvalds gracefully phrased it, like 'shit'.


Let us note that Mr Torvalds has spent the last 20 years writing kernel code to take advantage of the performance gains provided by that exact CPU architecture and hasn't had cause to complain until now.

Author:  Hearthly [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Cras wrote:
Let us note that Mr Torvalds has spent the last 20 years writing kernel code to take advantage of the performance gains provided by that exact CPU architecture and hasn't had cause to complain until now.


Maybe he was running with the assumption that Intel's CPU would appropriately protect restricted kernel memory areas?

There's nothing wrong with the concept of speculative execution (it's a very good idea, in fact), it just needs to be implemented properly.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Cras wrote:
Let us note that Mr Torvalds has spent the last 20 years writing kernel code to take advantage of the performance gains provided by that exact CPU architecture and hasn't had cause to complain until now.

Also Linus is an abusive bellend and his opinion that something is shit is basically meaningless. See e.g. https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/38136.html

Author:  Cras [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Hearthly wrote:
Cras wrote:
Let us note that Mr Torvalds has spent the last 20 years writing kernel code to take advantage of the performance gains provided by that exact CPU architecture and hasn't had cause to complain until now.


Maybe he was running with the assumption that Intel's CPU would appropriately protect restricted kernel memory areas?
.


Then his assumptions are foolish. You don't work that close to the hardware level while making assumptions about how the hardware works. I'm not defending Intel here, I'm saying Torvalds views are (as they usually tend to be) opportunistic finger-pointing.

Author:  JohnCoffey [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 13:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Five year old PSU never opened..

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Opened.

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Not as bad as I thought. Cleaned it all through.

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Put back together.

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Caps were all fine. Then worked until 2 A.M removing everything, cleaning and then putting back.

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Just a Quadro in there for now so I can listen to my music :)

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Not seen it this clean since the day I got it over two years ago.

Author:  zaphod79 [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 15:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Meltdown / Spectre like flaws on the Xbox 360 chips -found and resolved a long time ago (interesting read)

https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2018/ ... -xbox-360/

Author:  myp [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 15:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

zaphod79 wrote:
Meltdown / Spectre like flaws on the Xbox 360 chips -found and resolved a long time ago (interesting read)

https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2018/ ... -xbox-360/

That's almost as good as when Gaywood posted about it!

Author:  zaphod79 [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 15:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Lonewolves wrote:
zaphod79 wrote:
Meltdown / Spectre like flaws on the Xbox 360 chips -found and resolved a long time ago (interesting read)

https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2018/ ... -xbox-360/

That's almost as good as when Gaywood posted about it!


Apologies - i missed that

It did also take me to this which i also found interesting (hardware bug on the original PS1)

https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/DaveBag ... g_Ever.php

Author:  asfish [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 20:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Anyone's work patching the clients yet?

In addition to the Windows patch levels Grim posted on this thread, I was told that we may need to do Bios update as well

Have a call with the client lead tomorrow to see if this is true.

One silver lining to this is that all the fence sitters in IT that were blocking the deployment of Anniversary (because it took so long to deploy) can now tell users its Intel fault for the disruption so we have a green light for that at least.

Author:  Sir Taxalot [ Tue Jan 09, 2018 22:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Speculative Execution would be a great name for a metal band (and a logo with nearly unreadable lettering)

Author:  BikNorton [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

@docg Intel actually put *an entire x86 CPU* in their x86 CPUs now just for the management stuff, not just microcode on the main cores.

Apparently even the people it's for don't generally turn it on, which is handy given it's exploitable. (Oh wait, that's AMT, not ME)

Your chum mjg blogged about it.https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/49788.html

Author:  Hearthly [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Some performance comments straight from MS.

https://cloudblogs.microsoft.com/micros ... rce=Direct

Quote:
Here is the summary of what we have found so far:

With Windows 10 on newer silicon (2016-era PCs with Skylake, Kabylake or newer CPU), benchmarks show single-digit slowdowns, but we don’t expect most users to notice a change because these percentages are reflected in milliseconds.

With Windows 10 on older silicon (2015-era PCs with Haswell or older CPU), some benchmarks show more significant slowdowns, and we expect that some users will notice a decrease in system performance.

With Windows 8 and Windows 7 on older silicon (2015-era PCs with Haswell or older CPU), we expect most users to notice a decrease in system performance.

Windows Server on any silicon, especially in any IO-intensive application, shows a more significant performance impact when you enable the mitigations to isolate untrusted code within a Windows Server instance. This is why you want to be careful to evaluate the risk of untrusted code for each Windows Server instance, and balance the security versus performance tradeoff for your environment.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 15:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Get yerself a heatsink with Continuous Direct Contact technology, not one of those lame ones that just hover sometimes

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 15:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

I bought RAM with RGB custom lighting and I ain't even sorry

Author:  DavPaz [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 15:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Does it have jumpers?

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 15:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

DavPaz wrote:
Does it have jumpers?

Dunno, mobo isn't here yet. I doubt it though. Jumpers seem to be thoroughly obsolete now.

(The last PC I build totally had jumpers.)

Author:  Hearthly [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 15:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Oohhh that's the same sort of RAM as in my PC.

Pro tip, the software is balls, and none of the other lighting options look as nice as the default, so just leave it as it is out of the box.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 16:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Hearthly wrote:
Pro tip, the software is balls, and none of the other lighting options look as nice as the default, so just leave it as it is out of the box.

I, uhh, might have selected a Gigabyte motherboard specifically so I can link up the RGB control across mobo/case/RAM/maybe also my keyboard. That might be a thing I did.

Author:  DBSnappa [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 16:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

This is making me laugh, for some inexplicable reason

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 16:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

DBSnappa wrote:
This is making me laugh, for some inexplicable reason

After a decade on Macs, I am Back On My Bullshit. Edit -- and you've known me long enough to remember when I used to build PCs :)

Author:  Hearthly [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 16:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
I, uhh, might have selected a Gigabyte motherboard specifically so I can link up the RGB control across mobo/case/RAM/maybe also my keyboard. That might be a thing I did.


Oooh that sounds swizzy, clearly pics and a video will be required when it's all done.

Author:  myp [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 16:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

A post with text will be fine

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 16:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Lonewolves wrote:
A post with text will be fine

"It's a PC. It's red. Now it's blue. Now it's red. Now it's orange."

Author:  JohnCoffey [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 17:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Progress.

Image

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Today I fitted the bottom "pull" fan which I am hoping will provide the rest of the rig with some air. Air flow in this case is pretty terrible.

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Just waiting on some braided extensions and the heat sink for the Poweradjust, then I can start work on mounting the PCBs for that.

Author:  Mr Dave [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 17:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
A post with text will be fine

"It's a PC. It's red. Now it's blue. Now it's red. Now it's orange."

If it doesn't do UV-C, I'm not interested.

Author:  JohnCoffey [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 18:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Mr Dave wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
A post with text will be fine

"It's a PC. It's red. Now it's blue. Now it's red. Now it's orange."

If it doesn't do UV-C, I'm not interested.


Image

Author:  DBSnappa [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 20:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
DBSnappa wrote:
This is making me laugh, for some inexplicable reason

After a decade on Macs, I am Back On My Bullshit. Edit -- and you've known me long enough to remember when I used to build PCs :)

I think what I was finding most amusing was your apparent glee with all of it.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Jan 10, 2018 20:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

DBSnappa wrote:
I think what I was finding most amusing was your apparent glee with all of it.

It has about a hundred LEDs. It’s going to be tasteless as fuck and I already love it.

Author:  myp [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 15:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
DBSnappa wrote:
I think what I was finding most amusing was your apparent glee with all of it.

It has about a hundred LEDs. It’s going to be tasteless as fuck and I already love it.

You might as well go down that route as there's no way of making a desktop PC look stylish in any way.

Author:  DavPaz [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 16:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Lonewolves wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
DBSnappa wrote:
I think what I was finding most amusing was your apparent glee with all of it.

It has about a hundred LEDs. It’s going to be tasteless as fuck and I already love it.

You might as well go down that route as there's no way of making a desktop PC look stylish in any way.

Image

Author:  Hearthly [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 16:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Lonewolves wrote:
You might as well go down that route as there's no way of making a desktop PC look stylish in any way.


>:(

Sometimes, before I go to bed at night, I just look at my PC for a minute or two in a darkened room before shutting it down.

Author:  Trousers [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 16:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Hearthly wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
You might as well go down that route as there's no way of making a desktop PC look stylish in any way.


>:(

Sometimes, before I go to bed at night, I just look at my PC for a minute or two in a darkened room before shutting it down.


That's only because you always have autotrader open in Chrome.

Author:  JohnCoffey [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 16:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Hearthly wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
You might as well go down that route as there's no way of making a desktop PC look stylish in any way.


>:(

Sometimes, before I go to bed at night, I just look at my PC for a minute or two in a darkened room before shutting it down.


haha I've been doing that for years :D I initiate the shut down sequence on however many I have running, then turn out the main light and wait by the door watching to make sure they all shut down before I go bed :D

Today's work. Mostly design so far. Not feeling confident enough to do the cutting yet but it doesn't take long. Here is the base plate that will hold the USB computer that will control all of the fans and pump (Aquacomputer PowerAdjust USB and Splitty 9)

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Then onto what will become the new star of the show. I fitted a rather natty water block to my Titan XP a while back now.

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The back plate is actively water cooled right above the VRM area too.

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Sadly you don't see the cool side of it with the pastel coolant running through it :(

So I decided to make a back plate for my sound card out of mirror acrylic. So that you can see it doing its thing. However, making back plates is not easy if you want them to be perfect. I discovered a while back that if I scan something (no matter how the DPI) that what it spits out is correct in scale and size when you open in Photoshop. So what I do now when making back plates is not just hack one out of a sheet of acrylic and plop it on because if you look closely you can see the cap caused by components, solder etc.

So first up I scan the card on the scanner.

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Then I create two templates. One for the solid plate.

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I know, boring rectangle. However, I then take that and place it over the card. Then I use blending to make that layer transparent, then cut out all of the troubled areas that will case elevation.

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I then take that and cut it by hand. It takes a very steady hand and a lot of time and patience. What you end up with though is more than worth the time and effort, as you can see from this GTX 950 here.

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I also went so far as painting all of the edges of the PCB black.

Author:  myp [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 17:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

People shut down their PCs?

Author:  Zardoz [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 17:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Trousers wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
You might as well go down that route as there's no way of making a desktop PC look stylish in any way.


>:(

Sometimes, before I go to bed at night, I just look at my PC for a minute or two in a darkened room before shutting it down.


That's only because you always have autotrader open in Chrome.

:D

Author:  Bamba [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 17:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Lonewolves wrote:
People shut down their PCs?


Why leave it running overnight (if you're not downloading something or serving content up)?

Author:  DavPaz [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 17:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

My media server is on 24/7 but the gaming machine is switched off when not in use.

Author:  Grim... [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 17:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

Bamba wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
People shut down their PCs?

Why leave it running overnight (if you're not downloading something or serving content up)?

PCs are (should be) busy overnight. Downloading updates, virus scanning, etc.

Mine barely ever gets turned off.

Author:  JohnCoffey [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 18:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

I wouldn't leave what is an electrical item full of water by itself. I wouldn't even trust a sealed loop cooler overnight. Unfortunately like everything else as soon as I water cooled one PC properly I had to do all of them. I have flow meters etc in one, as it was having troubles. That is what you get for cramming two separate loops into a case not designed for any.

But yeah, paras, innit.

Author:  GazChap [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 18:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: PC gaming hardware thread.

My PC only goes off when we have a power cut.

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