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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 14:32 
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Grim... wrote:
You've got things like Occulus Go, too. It's not as good, but it's interesting, to say the least.

Does the Vive wireless use a battery pack?

Yeah. There is an official one coming, but a friend has one of these
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/tpcast- ... t-for-ulti


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 15:41 
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Grim... wrote:
JohnCoffey wrote:
However, given your main critique of me has always been that I steal games?

whut


It all started when I said I was going to "borrow" STALKER COP. Due to the first two being bug ridden messes I was unwilling to cough over £25 so downloaded it first. Until that point Doc and I got on quite well, but that seemed to piss him off. One thing I do have on my side is very good long term memory.

Now most people would have just "borrowed" it and not said anything, but I tend to be quite honest and quite open about it. Which only served to piss him off. It wasn't deliberate. The only things I try and do deliberately are good things. However, sometimes I do piss people off and there is nothing I can do about it at all. It is just who I am, and what happens. It's not just here it is everywhere. Which played a large part in me developing agoraphobia and other problems I now suffer from by deliberately trying to avoid *any* conflict whatsoever and thus closing myself off from humanity and cutting the cord. The only people I saw for about four years was very close family and my docs and psychs. That is it, no other contact apart from the internet. Which of course my ex wife stopped me doing for five years or there abouts.

I think a lot of these problems exist because people really just don't understand how things are at this (points to himself) end of the keyboard. If they could see me and talk to me? it would be much better.

I know that my issues are very complex and thus very difficult to understand. Life is like that. My father died when I was 7, and when my ex wife's father died when she was 46 she lost it. She said "You have no idea how I feel !" and I said "Yes I fucking do, I went through it at 7. Only I had only spent 7 years with my father and then to top it all off I got bullied at school and called a bastard every time some one lost an argument".

However, that was learned from direct experience. If you have no experience of total insanity (because believe me I have been there) then I don't expect people to get it. At all. However, it would be nice to have some patience and you know? not being made fun of.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 15:50 
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It might be worth noting though, that your understanding of someone else being pissed may be off kilter due to your disability. I expect you find it difficult to read others intentions and understandings at times, and have a prevalence to assume the worst based on past experiences.

What you thought was DoccyG being pissed off with you, may only have been your perception, it may not have been the case.

People are difficult to read and deal with in the best of situations, so I have sympathy for you dude. Try not to take things to heart so much, if possible :)


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 15:54 
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You may claim to have "very good long term memory", but I have an infallible post history. Here's the thread and here's what was said
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/ ... 6&p=405687

JohnCoffey wrote:
Any way. I read reviews of Clear Sky and it seemed it was just more of the same. Fast forward to a few months ago and Pripyat was released as a cobbled/converted Russki to Pinglish (pig English) conversion. I downloaded an evaluation copy and installed it, but it just made no sense and my days of playing foreign games and spending time figuring out what's going on are over, I simply don't have the patience any more.

Then I noticed that the proper English version has now been completed and released, and reviews seemed far more favourable than Clear Sky so I grabbed an eval copy and installed it.


Plissken wrote:
They are calling them evaluation copies now?


Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Plissken wrote:
They are calling them evaluation copies now?
Some people are, clearly.

JohnCoffey wrote:
That mission was immensely satisfying. If there are more like that I see very happy times ahead with this game. More screenies later as sadly I forgot to load fraps.
JohnCoffey wrote:
The more I play this the more it seems like a rock hard Fallout 3 knock off. Which is a very good thing I guess.

Sounds like you've already evaluated it then?

Zio wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Plissken wrote:
They are calling them evaluation copies now?
Some people are, clearly.

Don't want to get into debate but.... gngh!.... it's not an evalutation copy, it's a pirate copy, and even if you do intend to buy it later you're still contributing to the pirate copy download figures and justifying things like that shitty McShit Ubisoft DRM policy.

Yoda said it best: "Buy, or do not buy. There is no evaluate. Unless they released an official demo."

AND HE WAS THE WISEST JEDI OF THEM ALL.


Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Call a spade a spade, I say. When I download things illegally I don't dress it up in fancy langauge.


There's another half dozen posts from other people. Somehow, out of that, you latched on to my reaction as objectionable, despite the fact I wasn't the first to reply and I didn't have the most to say.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 15:56 
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Trooper wrote:
It might be worth noting though, that your understanding of someone else being pissed may be off kilter due to your disability. I expect you find it difficult to read others intentions and understandings at times, and have a prevalence to assume the worst based on past experiences.

What you thought was DoccyG being pissed off with you, may only have been your perception, it may not have been the case.

People are difficult to read and deal with in the best of situations, so I have sympathy for you dude. Try not to take things to heart so much, if possible :)


Everything is off kilter with me dude. Humour, jokes, social situations etc. It's like I am tuned to a different frequency to the entire world. Thankfully some of what I say and do makes sense to others, and once again I have forged a friendship with a guy with chronic depression. Of course, neither of us knew about the other's ailments but that is life I guess? you tend to hang with people you feel comfortable with and vice versa. I just hope and pray he stays alive and well, as I really don't think I have it in me to go through another suicide. Two of my friends are gone from that now. I don't want sympathy either tbh. I hated being in a wheelchair as a kid (I got ran over) because of the attention it got me. I just want to be able to say "Look, some if not all of what I say ain't gonna make much sense to you" and people say "Oh, OK".

It would take weeks to study the illnesses I have, and even longer to understand all of the small nuances like the habits and etc. I don't expect people to do that as tbh? I wouldn't lol.

Doc. What you just showed me is exactly as I remembered the situation. Remember - as I remembered, not you. Every one reacts to situations differently, and feels differently from them.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 13:59 
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DavPaz wrote:
Got my steam link today. That's a lot of hardware for £2. Worth it for the lovely flat ethernet cable alone :)


My Steam Link and Controller arrived today. Serves me right for dawdling over the ordering of it as I guess they ran short of stock for a while.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 0:57 
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As much as I can't be fucked, I should probably upgrade my PCs main SSD drive given that I've now run out of space to install games on it about three times. I'm currently running 120Gb and don't need a massive amount more than that so I'm more than happy to settle for doubling the storage to 240GB. A quick search on HUKD threw this up for £42; is it any good:

https://www.ebuyer.com/795725-palit-uv- ... uvs-ssd240

SSD drives kind of confuse me with all their talk of TRIM and other such nonsense so I genuinely don't know if one is as good as the another; or if there are non-obvious pitfalls to avoid here.

Also, if I do pick a new drive up, is it worth trying to do some kind of cloning malarkey; or am I better of just installing Windows fresh and not fucking around?


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:57 
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SATA SSDs are all pretty much of a muchness now, just get the cheapest one that matches the capacity you want. (AFAIK all the NAND chips and controllers come out of the same few places anyway, regardless of brand.)

The ones to watch out for are M2 SSDs that are SATA rather than NVMe. (SATA is markedly slower than NVMe. Although even there, most people would be hard pushed to tell the difference, most of the time.)

You don't have to worry about TRIM or anything like that these days, Windows and the drives between them are smart enough to know what to do, and what not to do, with them.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:55 
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Is there any particular reason why RAM is still so expensive?

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:10 
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I believe it's nothing more complex than demand outstripping supply, although the big three manufacturers have been talking about increasing production for a while. (Three manufacturers between them effectively control the market.)

Some folks think there's something a bit more sinister going on though - https://fossbytes.com/dram-price-fixing ... expensive/

Quote:
Samsung has already been charged with artificially increasing DRAM prices from 1999 through 2002, which they settled in 2005. Additionally, Hynix was hit with a price-fixing conspiracy the same year. Typically, companies have to maintain a favorable product cost to stay competitive in the market. But in the case of the Big DRAM Three, they have all benefited from increasing the cost of their DRAM products by an amount that is disproportionate to the (negative) growth in demand over the same period. This is counterintuitive, especially when these companies are supposed to be competing with each other.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:38 
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Hearthly wrote:
I believe it's nothing more complex than demand outstripping supply, although the big three manufacturers have been talking about increasing production for a while. (Three manufacturers between them effectively control the market.)

Some folks think there's something a bit more sinister going on though - https://fossbytes.com/dram-price-fixing ... expensive/

Quote:
Samsung has already been charged with artificially increasing DRAM prices from 1999 through 2002, which they settled in 2005. Additionally, Hynix was hit with a price-fixing conspiracy the same year. Typically, companies have to maintain a favorable product cost to stay competitive in the market. But in the case of the Big DRAM Three, they have all benefited from increasing the cost of their DRAM products by an amount that is disproportionate to the (negative) growth in demand over the same period. This is counterintuitive, especially when these companies are supposed to be competing with each other.


China are building their own fabs, which should alleviate the issue but it won't be for a while. As for the theories? well, I'm kinda in the latter but only because they have form.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10126755

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 20:40 
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@bamba why not put games on your spinny drive?

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 21:24 
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Grim... wrote:
@bamba why not put games on your spinny drive?


I'd only run games from a hard drive on PC with a gun to my head, loading times are massively decreased when using an SSD. (Depends a bit on the game, but basically it's 'WOOOAH!' faster.)

This is my current PC config, 256GB NVMe for OS, applications and 'permanent' games such as WoW and Hearthstone. (I also use this drive for video editing, clearing down all the files once the video is rendered out and finished. I've seen Resource Monitor report obscene throughput numbers when working with 4K video, and it's one of the edge cases where NVMe SSD makes a noticeable difference when compared with SATA SSD, (as with SATA SSD it's the bus that's maxed out.))

1TB SATA SSD for games (that's all this drive is for).

4TB data drive for everything else.

SSDs are SO BASTARD CHEAP now, it's borderline insanity to use a spinny drive for games.

If I make one change to my PS4, it'll be to get an external SSD and run games from that. Loading times for EVERYBODY'S GOLF really are amazingly shit.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:27 
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Grim... wrote:
@bamba why not put games on your spinny drive?


Pretty much what Hearthly said: my understanding is that load times are massively improves when a game's installed on an SSD and I want to take advantage of that.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 19:20 
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Slow is better than "not at all", though.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 19:20 
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Grim... wrote:
Slow is better than "not at all", though.

Preach!


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 19:21 
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Grim... wrote:
Slow is better than "not at all", though.


Title

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 19:34 
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I've never been bothered by loading times and HDDs are super cheap with high capacity. I like having lots of games installed at once so :shrug: I guess it's horses for courses.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 20:36 
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I've thought about it and for right now I am quite happy with FO4. Unless you accidentally enter/exit somewhere with a lot to load. That's annoying. However, even on the stock drive it still loads faster than my PC with an SSD. However, I have everything on ultra, including all of the Gamedoesn'tworks stuff (weapons etc) so it takes up about 8gb of my texture ram (VRAM) before it loads.

Thing is from 20ft it is very hard to tell the difference. I think I am just going to leave it be for now. I still can't get a 1tb SSD for what I am prepared to pay (about £120) so I will just leave it alone. I paid £120 for a 500gb SSD what seems like forever ago. I really hoped that by now spinning drives would be a thing of the past but if anything they have made a resurgence (with the Barry Firecudas).

I think I would be more tempted to go with a 2tb spinner for around £65 or so (external).

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:11 
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Grim... wrote:
Slow is better than "not at all", though.


Why would I not be able to load a game off an SSD?


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:13 
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You wouldn't be able to if you had a power cut.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:25 
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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:23 
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Bamba wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Slow is better than "not at all", though.


Why would I not be able to load a game off an SSD?

Because it doesn't fit. That's how all this started, right?

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:39 
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Grim... wrote:
Bamba wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Slow is better than "not at all", though.


Why would I not be able to load a game off an SSD?

Because it doesn't fit. That's how all this started, right?


Oh right, yeah. But as soon as I finished Dishonored 2 I just uninstalled it from the SSD and put the new game on. A lack of space isn't "never play this", just "remember to install it later, which is mildly annoying".


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 14:02 
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https://www.overclock3d.net/news/misc_h ... ctronics/1

So some of the small fry (if you could call them that) have been fined.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:52 
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nVidia revealed new pro-grade GPUs yesterday, the first with the new Turing architecture and the first with a new hardware based realtime raytracing rendering engine. There's a consumer announcement next week and it seems likely the RT engine will be in those cards too.

This was rendered in it. In realtime. Gosh.



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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:05 
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Is this too late now to be the sort of thing that'll be in the next consoles?


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:11 
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Very pretty, be interesting to see how it performs in the wild.
Also, and I know this is a tech demo so is using every bell and whistle going, but cars aren't that reflective in real life. Tone it down a bit and it could be very realistic.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:17 
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It wasn't that long ago (erk, 12 years ish) that we were using 15 Pentium 4 PCs in a cluster to render things like that at about 5 minutes per frame. Now they can do it at 1080p 60fps.

Stunning.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:16 
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There's a good video over at AdoredTV about these cards, leaks suggest that Nvidia are going to deliberately split the market into RTX and GTX cards, and nobbling the GTX cards at either a driver or hardware level to mean that you'll have be dropping $500+ on an RTX card to get the ray-tracing functionality.

Looks like it'll be the preserve of the wealthy for a little while to come.

Also note that the realtime demos seen so far are using some pretty exotic hardware configurations.

Attachment:
Screenshot 2018-08-14 at 10.06.08.png


markg wrote:
Is this too late now to be the sort of thing that'll be in the next consoles?


I believe the next-gen consoles are already locked down to AMD CPUs and GPUs, basically the same as XBox One/PS4 but a generation along. (i.e. Using the Zen architecture CPUs that are currently in the PC desktop space.)

This ray-tracing stuff is an Nvidia gig.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:22 
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markg wrote:
Is this too late now to be the sort of thing that'll be in the next consoles?


I asked the exact same thing on a tech forum the other day. Apparently AMD do not have a way to do hardware ray tracing, so I would say it is doubtful.

AMD will be using Vulkan for their RT.

It's probably also worth noting that even though RT is apparently about to become a thing, the hardware to do a fully RT game is likely many years off.

Just looks like the new carrot to me. Well, at the moment any way. There is one game coming that apparently uses some RT (and it's on things like lamps and etc) and according to the devs it absolutely cooks GPUs. I'm talking about the new Metro game. Other than that? nothing much else even in dev yet.

I would imagine early RT will be like early DX11 (where it was just a few very minor effects and lighting).

Edit. More on AMD's RT.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12552/am ... rofiler-12

Also. From what I recall the "hardware" used on Nvidia to do RT is the "Tensor Cores" on Volta. I don't know if Turing, Ampere or whatever Nvidia are calling it this week even has those cores.

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_di ... _tracing/1

Apparently it does have the Tensor cores on it. Well colour me surprised, I really thought they would drag that out until the next Ti card.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:18 
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Good job you're fully into consoles now and don't have to worry about PC hardware anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:20 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Good job you're fully into consoles now and don't have to worry about PC hardware anymore.


Yeah, and consoles are much more reliable too. You never have to wipe them and re-install everything.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:42 
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Hearthly wrote:

Also note that the realtime demos seen so far are using some pretty exotic hardware configurations.

Yes, but also no. The Porsche demo video was running on two Quadro RTX cards (I can't find out which ones, the top one cost $10k...) The Star Wars demo from E3 was done on (IIRC) 4x Titans. But that same Star Wars demo can now be done on a single Quadro RTX, so there's a very significant performance boost from this new RTX engine. Of course these Quadro cards are aimed at digital artists and designers.

We won't know anything meaningful for us until we see the 2070 and 2080 unveiling and find out what they are capable of. It seems unlikely anyone is going to be releasing fully ray-traced games anytime soon. The question is then: how successful will Nvidia be at creating a hybrid raytraced/rastered image pipeline (this was explicitly discussed yesterday as a goal), and then encouraging games developers to adopt it?


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:45 
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JohnCoffey wrote:
Also. From what I recall the "hardware" used on Nvidia to do RT is the "Tensor Cores" on Volta. I don't know if Turing, Ampere or whatever Nvidia are calling it this week even has those cores.

This is wrong, as your own posted link shows:

Quote:
Looking at the diagram above, most of you will notice that Turing is about a lot more than Shader/Compute performance, with around half of Turing's die size being dedicated to Tensor Cores and Nvidia's new RT Core components.

Tensor Cores are what Nvidia use to accelerate AI performance, with Turing being the first time that Nvidia has offered the feature outside of their premium Volta GV100 core design. RT cores, as the name suggests, are designed explicitly for Ray Tracing workloads, with Nvidia touting performance levels of 10 Giga Rays per second when using their large 754mm squared Turing graphics chip. Nvidia says that their fastest Turing parts can offer a 25% performance boost over unaccelerated Pascal GPUs, showcasing the benefits of specialised hardware.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:45 
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I'm not waiting 52+ years to find out more about ray tracing cards!

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:46 
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JohnCoffey wrote:

This is a software API. It's not remotely the same thing as Nvidia's announcement of a new hardware capability.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:18 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
It seems unlikely anyone is going to be releasing fully ray-traced games anytime soon.

DX12 has ray tracing API, so maybe it's not too far away.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:29 
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Grim... wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
It seems unlikely anyone is going to be releasing fully ray-traced games anytime soon.

DX12 has ray tracing API, so maybe it's not too far away.

NVidia were talking about a hybrid mode, with some traditional rasterisation and then some added ray-tracing elements. Using that API. That seems more likely in the near term, to me, as the Quadro cards demoed yesterday have a huge, expensive core that probably won’t scale down to mass market consumer cards. My guess is the 2080 and 2070 cards won’t be the same Turing core.


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:47 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
JohnCoffey wrote:
Also. From what I recall the "hardware" used on Nvidia to do RT is the "Tensor Cores" on Volta. I don't know if Turing, Ampere or whatever Nvidia are calling it this week even has those cores.

This is wrong, as your own posted link shows:

Quote:
Looking at the diagram above, most of you will notice that Turing is about a lot more than Shader/Compute performance, with around half of Turing's die size being dedicated to Tensor Cores and Nvidia's new RT Core components.

Tensor Cores are what Nvidia use to accelerate AI performance, with Turing being the first time that Nvidia has offered the feature outside of their premium Volta GV100 core design. RT cores, as the name suggests, are designed explicitly for Ray Tracing workloads, with Nvidia touting performance levels of 10 Giga Rays per second when using their large 754mm squared Turing graphics chip. Nvidia says that their fastest Turing parts can offer a 25% performance boost over unaccelerated Pascal GPUs, showcasing the benefits of specialised hardware.


What I am unsure of is whether they really are "Ray Tracing corez l337" etc or whether they are simply tensor cores, given a fancy name to get people excited. IE - are they really truly proper ray tracing cores or, for example, the DP that Nvidia disabled on Maxwell?

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 13:27 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Yes, but also no. The Porsche demo video was running on two Quadro RTX cards (I can't find out which ones, the top one cost $10k...) The Star Wars demo from E3 was done on (IIRC) 4x Titans. But that same Star Wars demo can now be done on a single Quadro RTX, so there's a very significant performance boost from this new RTX engine. Of course these Quadro cards are aimed at digital artists and designers.

We won't know anything meaningful for us until we see the 2070 and 2080 unveiling and find out what they are capable of. It seems unlikely anyone is going to be releasing fully ray-traced games anytime soon. The question is then: how successful will Nvidia be at creating a hybrid raytraced/rastered image pipeline (this was explicitly discussed yesterday as a goal), and then encouraging games developers to adopt it?


What I was getting at is exotic hardware compared to any sort of normal home setup that's likely to exist in the near future. Even a single 2080 is likely to cost £500-£600 or more, that's pretty exotic by most folks' standards.

Looking at the raw power of the 2070/2080 compared to the current cards, yes they're more powerful but not massively so, and the RTX engine can only do so much. (i.e. It's likely to be a future card, or even more expensive card, that's actually capable of rendering RT games, even in a sort of hybrid mode.)

Also, if Nvidia do split the market between RTX and non-RTX cards, then you're only looking at a small subset of the market having the ability to run RTX games (and none of the console market).

It'd be nice if AMD could provide some meaningful competition in the GPU space, as Nvidia are now effectively competing with themselves, which means they can pull shit like fragmenting their own market because they're a borderline monopoly.

That said, if Nvidia do limit RTX to the top-end cards, and the only way to experience RTX enabled games is to bin what may otherwise be a perfectly good older GTX card (I'm not intending to replace my 1080 anytime soon), then how much of a market for RTX content will there really be?

(Yes I realise it'll get there in the end as the tech trickles down, of course.)


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 13:50 
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Hearthly wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Yes, but also no. The Porsche demo video was running on two Quadro RTX cards (I can't find out which ones, the top one cost $10k...) The Star Wars demo from E3 was done on (IIRC) 4x Titans. But that same Star Wars demo can now be done on a single Quadro RTX, so there's a very significant performance boost from this new RTX engine. Of course these Quadro cards are aimed at digital artists and designers.

We won't know anything meaningful for us until we see the 2070 and 2080 unveiling and find out what they are capable of. It seems unlikely anyone is going to be releasing fully ray-traced games anytime soon. The question is then: how successful will Nvidia be at creating a hybrid raytraced/rastered image pipeline (this was explicitly discussed yesterday as a goal), and then encouraging games developers to adopt it?


What I was getting at is exotic hardware compared to any sort of normal home setup that's likely to exist in the near future. Even a single 2080 is likely to cost £500-£600 or more, that's pretty exotic by most folks' standards.

Looking at the raw power of the 2070/2080 compared to the current cards, yes they're more powerful but not massively so, and the RTX engine can only do so much. (i.e. It's likely to be a future card, or even more expensive card, that's actually capable of rendering RT games, even in a sort of hybrid mode.)

Also, if Nvidia do split the market between RTX and non-RTX cards, then you're only looking at a small subset of the market having the ability to run RTX games (and none of the console market).

It'd be nice if AMD could provide some meaningful competition in the GPU space, as Nvidia are now effectively competing with themselves, which means they can pull shit like fragmenting their own market because they're a borderline monopoly.

That said, if Nvidia do limit RTX to the top-end cards, and the only way to experience RTX enabled games is to bin what may otherwise be a perfectly good older GTX card (I'm not intending to replace my 1080 anytime soon), then how much of a market for RTX content will there really be?

(Yes I realise it'll get there in the end as the tech trickles down, of course.)


Whilst I have absolutely no doubt that RT is the next big thing I don't think it will be worth having for a while yet. The only title that has any mention of RT that I have seen is the new Metro, and even then it was silly stuff like a table lamp in a big room on a small corner table.

Then of course we have the dev cycle. 3-5 years on a big game.

And then finally, is what Nvidia has (and especially what will come to gamers) powerful enough to even run RT? I strongly doubt it. I think it will be a few more gens at least until we see something man enough. Using four Quadro cards is cheating tbh.

Then again I am being very pessimistic, so I really hope I am completely wrong (I just doubt it, having bought into so many junk techs over the years).

OK so I have been reading today and garnering opinions on the matter. A lot of truth tbh. Basically as we know AMD got the console contracts. This means that basically all devs will code for the consoles first (as per the norm) and then make the games work on a PC. But, due to the limitations of the AMD APU (well, I say that it's actually better than anything Nvidia had obs) it means that basically we are going to get console "like" games on a PC.

This explains a lot, and would be why not one single game has been released to take advantage of all of the cool things DX12 had going for it. Things like mGPU, explicit multi adaptor and so on. We were promised a replacement for SLi that would work better and work on any GPU combination. Thus far no games at all have used it to anything even resembling worthwhile. Opinion is that this is because the consoles come first, which makes a lot of sense.

Which kinda paints a pretty bleak picture of RT really doesn't it? I mean, if they are not even bothering with reasonably important coding for the PC it doesn't exactly fill me with hope that not only are they going to spend time and money on development, but to do so solely for one manufacturer (IE - Nvidia). Nvidia have obviously played it sensible by getting the next pretty big game onboard (Metro, will be the biggest game launched for a while) to make sure that loads of people buy into RT. It just concerns me (or rather doesn't actually) as to what future it will have.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 23:08 
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Nvidia results show a collapse in revenue to cryptocurrency mining and it expects it to be permanent:

https://twitter.com/jwangark/status/1030194513170636800




Gimme dem cheap 1080Ti cards plzthxbai


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 23:46 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Gimme dem cheap 1080Ti cards plzthxbai


:this:

Either that or they'll just sit on existing inventory until it shifts or just price up the next gen cards to create a new tier £100-£200 above where the 1080/1080Ti are sat.

(I think it'll be the latter, with the 2xxx coming in at a higher price point whilst they try and shift all the 1xxx cards at their current price point.)


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 23:48 
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I’m actually thinking of a glut of second hand ones if the cryptominers start offloading them. Sure, you might get one that’s had a hard life, but if they’re cheap enough maybe that’s OK...


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:22 
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I remember speaking with Richard Swinburne within the first week of mining exploding, and asking him his take on whether AMD and Nvidia would go in balls deep on production. He writes for CPC and used to post on the Bit-tech forums. He has worked for Asus, and lives in Taiwan as an industry analyst. Any way, he said that Asus told him that they personally were being incredibly careful, as they didn't want to be left "holding the baby".

Fast forward a year on and basically that is exactly what has happened.

I think the latter will be correct also. I had heard that these new 20 series cards were going to be mad expensive a while back. Almost belief defying prices had been mentioned.

I think there will be a glut at some point though. I've noticed at the end of every GPU range (well, after a new one has launched) that OCUK seem to get massive (very cheap) shipments of MSI and Gigabyte cards. It isn't just limited to those two though, but yeah they get tons. That was where I got my GTX 470 for £170. IIRC Hearthly got a 480 on the cheap around the same time.. I also had a 6970 Lightning for £170 and so on.

There will be a huge amount of mining cards up for grabs. All I would really do is just clean them and give them some fresh thermal paste and job done.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 13:46 
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https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_di ... pictured/1

2080 *and* 2080Ti "leaked".*

Are Nvidia going for the full pull? there are already rumours of a 5gb GDDR6 2060 that apparently goes about as fast as a 1070 8gb. But yeah, are they actually going to release the full range at once? or entice in "enthusiasts" with a 2080, then slap a Ti out 8 months later?

Time will tell I guess.

* everything these days is leaked. A leak. I guess it's that thing I was talking about a few weeks ago where humans find things far more interesting if they are not supposed to be seeing/doing them. This is much more of a publicity stunt by MSI to say "hey look at our cards".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms7HQ7rckpA

RTX now apparently. If you own a GTX you smell of poo.

Edit. I have a feeling having watched that video that Nvidia are going to do a 2080Ti on turing (mid range silicon) and will save the full Volta for whatever they come out with next. A master stroke, if you like buying everything they sell.

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:56 
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2080Ti (cheap and cheerful) to cost a grand.

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_di ... ications/1

Makes you wonder how much a Strix would be, for example.

Nvidia. Screwing over gamers for miners since whenever, then making gamers pay for their business mistakes.

*turns his XB1X over and rubs its belly*

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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 13:02 
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JohnCoffey wrote:
2080Ti (cheap and cheerful) to cost a grand.

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_di ... ications/1


"The pricing below appears to be a placeholder value, with the RTX 2080 Ti sitting at $1000 while the RTX 2080 costs $800. Final pricing is expected to be lower. "


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 Post subject: Re: PC gaming hardware thread.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 13:29 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
JohnCoffey wrote:
2080Ti (cheap and cheerful) to cost a grand.

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_di ... ications/1


"The pricing below appears to be a placeholder value, with the RTX 2080 Ti sitting at $1000 while the RTX 2080 costs $800. Final pricing is expected to be lower. "


Not buying it (PTP). The placeholder prices were $1500 recently.

If the 2080 is set to RRP between $599 (yeah, right) and $699 as "leaked" then how much will the Ti cost?

We shall see I guess.

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