Be Excellent To Each Other

Faster reponse times, better build quality etc. That's how they're marketted.

Is anyone actually going to talk about games in here?

Well it is called PC gaming thread.

My new PC arrives on thursday and I am going to play Zeno Clash and Mirror's Edge and Crysis

nice. What did you get?

the time thing would be hard to prove. Most keyboards are hardwearing and i have never had one fail. It is just a gimic people buy in to. The same ones that say you can't use wireless mice or keyboards for games either. They buy then because they look good saying that i still want a deathadder mouse

He got a PC! Christ. Talk about the games! The games are what matter.

It's not my choice of hardware, it's an insurance jobbie (a bit complicated), but it's a C2D 3.0ghz, 4gb of DDR2 ram, and a Radeon 4850 512mb.

No, it's not a gimmick people buy into and it does make a difference. That Deathadder? get it. Within a day you will never want to use a shite normal mouse again. You have my word on that. Even with it's wretchedly fucking annoying squeaking buttons I would not change my Salmosa for the world. Well, unless it broke, at which point I would probably get another one.

Ooo nice ! you're going to like Crysis It's really good. Shame it's terribly optimised and Warhead runs better, but I think the game itself is better (deffo a lot longer).

they are gimics Jc. The keyboards are a good mouse is a good mouse whether it is classed as gaming or not

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MARTIN-LOGAN-ASCE ... 55fffbb056

So those are gimmicks too yes? because after all, you can get a set of speakers for about £30.

Strawman much?

Most games run at a update rate of either 30 or 60 frames/sec. So generally they read the keyboard 60 times every second. If your keyboard polls at a overly faster rate than 120Hz, it's wasted.

sorry is that a keyboard or a mouse?

Wow. 8ms? Let's take a game that runs at 60hz. Roughly 16.7ms. It takes twice as long to process and render a frame as it does for your keyboard to send the keypress. (of course, if you include all the OS shit it goes through the delay is possibly 3ms more at max). But really, your key press will be delayed by a single frame at most? You honestly won't even notice.

I imagine your little slider (why does it even have this? Why would you not want it on 'MAX!' ?) simply effects the imaging chip on the mouse, and means _its_ refresh rate is increasing, which would potential produce more accurate movement. But I doubt most people would notice.

FYI: My hi-fi has wooden knobs, it makes it sound better, see?


edit: fuck Mr Dave and his shorter-post-got-there-first business. FUCK IM.

jc i like you but you do buy into the gaming bullshit.

So?

Why not give me a few reasons why you even give a fuck?

Pissing in cornflakes is fantastic. Especially when people will just refuse to eat them.

BTW. Want to know the best part about gaming keyboards and why they're so much better than normal ones?

Because they make me happy. So go on, five fucking pages telling me why I am wrong.

I just love it you see.

This is why PC gaming has a bad reputation in many circles, you know. You give someone who mainly plays on a console a chance to talk about gaming, and they enthuse about Uncharted 2 or Dead Rising or Call of Duty or Resi 5. You give someone who mainly plays on a PC a chance to talk about gaming, and they bang on about a microchip that for four and half hours.

One guy makes a post about a £50 keyboard. Cue lots of Obtuseness telling him he is wrong. Do you see?

Like, this is the PC gaming thread. So that covers games and the controls thereof. Not arguments by petty plums trying to dissuade somebody from buying something or, being complete wankers for the sake of it.

Personally I know that the £50 keyboard I am buying is better than say, a £20 ASDA jobby. It's when you patiently try to explain this, and that it makes you happy, to a bunch of antagonists determined to make you miserable.

So in other words I wished I hadn't wasted time out of my life trying to show people that there are differences between the Alienware TACTX keyboard and a shit keyboard because they obviously don't care and just wanted to piss on my parade. I should have said fuck off ages ago tbh.

In fairness, I think no one on this forum has ever enthused about Dead Rising. It's the mad aunt in the attic.

For the love of fucking fuck,

I bought a £350 PC a month ago. I look forward merrily to not touching its innards or fiddling with its BIOS for another four years at the least, and enjoying many splendid games in the meantime. At some point, mayhaps, I shall buy a new graphics card, if it's really needed. Otherwise I shall enjoy a graceful decline to medium settings which generally look as good as high settings now.

SO...

Space Rangers 2, eh? Fucking awesome.

I want to know when I got spiteful. lol

Just an observation of behaviour patterns. You would make a great salesman the way you rave about things makes others want them, I know I have been tempted a few times but resisted apart from the Alienware.

I hope it's everything you expect to to be and enables you to beat me at MW2 if I buy it

sorry jc. We don't mean to piss you off, but you know what this forum is like. People will say something is good, and we want to know why!

I'm not sure we care about the price, JC. Hell, I paid £30 for my standard Apple keyboard, and feel that's absolutely worth it. People are just getting a bit confused about the claims these companies makeabout the hardware; specifically why they'd be genuinely any better than a standard keyboard, macros and comfort, bells and whistles aside. You can't really refute what Mr Dave was saying.

I don't want to refute it.

People asked me why these keyboards were called gaming keyboards and I did my best to explain why. They are different . I mean, even if the differences are mostly cosmetic they are still different to a normal keyboard. That's just the point I was making. Those speakers I posted (the ebay Martin Logan ones) are different to normal speakers. They're electrostatic. They still make music, and they still make sound, but they are different.

And the more I calmly try and point that out to people the more they carry on and then start making claims of snake oil. Thing is, I don't care about that part and it starts to become blatantly obvious that it's nothing but a spiteful attempt to make me unhappy with my purchase.

Part of the reason why we have this massive range of products and choice is down to things like this. Sure, they may not be what they're cracked up to be but as long as someone is happy with them and is paying for them fuelling an economy who gives a fuck?

Take the Bose thread. I know a lot about stereo equipment and acoustics. I won't bore you with why right now but I do. I spent about eight years working in the audio industry and far more being a fan of high fidelity equipment (going into the extremes of audiophile).

And I know that Bose aren't all that good. Here, I'll give you a really fucking anal example as to why.

A woofer (or driver, depending on the size) has what is called a basket (USA) or a frame (europe). If you're not sure what that is then it's basically the bit the magnet sits on the arse of and the woofer's surround (the usually foam bumpy bit) connects to at the front end.

Bose were using plastic in their 101 drivers. Any idea why that's so all kinds of wrong? Here I will explain.

That part of the speaker is mostly made from steel in cheap woofers. It needs to be super rigid to prevent warping, but also it needs to carry a lot of heat from the motor assembly (the voice coil). Plastic isn't a great conductor, let's put it that way. Over time they become brittle and crack. Now in an ideal world good quality baskets or frames are made from aircraft aluminum. Why? because they are rigid and dissapate all of the heat away from the motor (or voice coil) allowing the motor to live a longer life and not end in failure.

And Bose used plastic. Plastic.

Steel isn't fantastic either, but at least you only usually find that on cheap drivers.

And you know what? all of the above adds to or subtracts from the listening experience. 80% of the world would say "I can't tell the difference and it's a con ETC, ETC" but you know what? I do have the critical listening skills to be able to tell a difference. Yet I'm not going to start going on and on and on and on about that determined to get my point accross or piss on someone's parade because opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one, but push yours too far and you become one.

So even if I cannot tell the difference when playing Tomb Raider (and I won't because I can't fucking stand it lol) it doesn't matter. Sure, the differences on those keyboards may be completely undetectable, but scientifically they are differences and make me rather happy and joyful.

And you can pretty much add anything Alienware makes to that list. I know this, I'm not fucking dumb. However, it makes me happy. That's the bottom line and what matters to me.

we all have our hobbies dude, i spend a bit on my my rugby boots and armour as i prefer a certain brand, i also would not expect folks to understand. But you are right most of the gaming stuff is Snake oil it is just well made.

That's fine, JC. If you can justify it to yourself, go for it. Hell, similar to Kovacs, I spent >£200 on cycling shoes. Would I do it again? Absolutely.

Sorry JC, I didn't mean to get anyone's back up, and I see you were largely responding to comments directed at you, but it's just generally, this seems to happen far too much (not just here, but on the internet at large). The reason for all these processors and hard drives and video cards is to play the games. The games are the thing, and fine, talk about the hardware and be enthusiastic, but that's not gaming talk, that's hardware talk.

I'm not taking any of it personally SA. I just find it a bit irritating. It's kinda like me walking into a thread about, let's say, a 360 game and then saying -

"but it's a FPS. It's no different to any other FPS right? So that means that if you paid £50 for Half Life all those years ago why spend £50 on this game? It's not worth it, etc, etc"

But I don't because everyone is entitled to be happy and excited over something even if it does seem really stupid to me, I do have the forethought to realise that whilst something may seem ridiculously stupid to me that to others it makes sense. And anything you can find in life that ticks it along and passes away the time is a bloody good thing.

I know that the 'technical' differences in a gaming keyboard are pretty much microscopic. The visual differences however? well, I still maintain that games are toys and you play them like you would play with a toy, so it should come as no suprise that market places for expensive and ellaborate toys (even if most of it is looks) is going to exist. It's kinda pointless going on and on and on about it.

I got a Hyundai Tiburon (Coupe) a few years back. That pretty much made me a black sheep at every car show I took part in. Looks down the nose from Mustang owners, blah blah blah. However, even with some serious engine mods and all kinds of 'bolt on tat' as people call it I used my car for work every day, drove half way accross America in it and it never ever broke down. Yet noone seemed to understand that and kept feeling this desperate urge to point out to me that my car was a Korean slushbox

I've never quite understood why people do that. Maybe they are doing it to defend actions they take? Kinda like offense is the best form of defense? Well tbh I have never really felt the need to rubbish someone else's choices just to make me feel good about my own.

It's kinda silly to have to do that to justify things tbh. It's far nicer when you can just go ahead and do it and be really happy about it. I mean shit, maybe in a few years I will feel like a right tit but I doubt it. I still love my car even though I don't have it any more and I still sit and gaze and photos of it for hours and hours sighing with happiness.

You could do that, but you'd be wrong.

Is CoD:MW2 anything like HL2 to play? No, requires a fairly different skill set.

JC you didn't start out in this thread by saying "I know there's no real difference I just like them", which is the line you're taking now. If you'd done that then nobody would have taken issue with it.

as long as you are saying you are buying them for form rather than function. That is ok with me

It's from a different genre of FPS sure. But I could easily jump on the bandwagon of all the other whiners and say it's nothing more than they have done already.

In the same way that I could bash Valve for making Left for dead 2 because hey, same name, same game only slightly different and £30 for the pleasure.

But there's no point. If I feel about a product in that way? I won't buy it. I don't feel the need to tell everyone who does or did why they are stupid for it, or just how silly the differences between MW and MW2 are.

Rabid dog alert, rabid dog alert. Can you not help yourself or something? seriously?

what? I am agreeing with you now!

No, you're smugly saying "well as long as you admit I am completely right and you're a stupid cunt then that's Okay"

Hence why I said you can't seem to help yourself. Be careful, smug clouds are damaging to the enviroment.

read what you want into it. I am not being smug. You finaly admitted that there are no or minimal functional differences between a decent normal keyboard and a gaming one. The latter just look better.

I'm ensing you havn't really read the thread in all that much depth. No-one has complained that nothing new has been added. Because it's pretty damn clear to even those of us who have not played it that considerable amounts have been added to the multiplayer.



Again no ones complained about it, just said that they're not getting it as it isn't worth it. Of course, given that L4D, like MW2, is primarily seen as a multiplayer game, having the appropriate mass of people to play it with is important, so knowing whether people are going to get it or not is also important.

You're the one reading into it. What I said was Even if before I made that statement.

You can go on about being right and me being wrong all you like, but I tell you, you're going to have an impossible task of ever making me say you are right and I am wrong.

If you think I am wrong? that's fine. Continually trying to shove it down my throat will get you nowhere and does make you look smug among other things.

Ever seen Bruce Almighty? See the part where god tells him he can never change people's wills or feelings?

Boy am I glad I don't spend my life trying to score points on people on the internet.

I haven't read it Mr Dave, no. Know why? because I was waaay too busy having fun and getting all excited like a 12 year old boy who had found his first porn mag to care. Ignorance is sometimes utter bliss really.



They have said it over and over and over and over. And, it's all fallen on deaf ears. They have started petitions, written into several publications I read (to the point that Valve have responded) and so on. If someone dares to stand up to them and say "Well I'm fucking getting it" then they are instantly torn a new asshole. Seriously, take it from someone who knows it's almost at obsession levels. Kinda like the Jedward haters, whilst all of the fans sit back and laugh at how pathetic they are.

So yeah, ignorantly buying things and believing all the hype and being immensely happy with things may not be uber intellectual and cool but it sure is fun.

I am not trying to score points. So get your head out of your arse, and read your posts. You spouted all sorts of rubbish about gaming keyboards. I was just in one of those moods yesterday to correct you. As i would expect to be corrected when i talk balls (which i do a lot )

Sorry, I should've been more clear - no one here has really complained about it. The internet as a whole will endlessly complain about anything, regardless of merit. I tend to stick around here, as I know who's opinion I can generally trust here as I know many of them well.

I read them all a good few times actually. All I can see is me being forced to justify myself because a load of judgemental hammerhead sharks want to tell me I am wrong.

As usual for the internet



What I did was explain the differences. Slowly and patiently, dozens of times. Each time you chose to ignore them. See me coming along to remind you that you were completely wrong about the usb hz thing? Nah, you just ducked under that and then got more and more desperate to rubbish my decision by saying none of it makes any difference. Even if (note the IF) it doesn't how would you know? I then asked you to explain why you even cared, no response.



First and foremostly that just makes me laugh really hard. To the point that my flu filled lungs begin to wheeze. Comedy gold for sure. Any way, thanks Dad, but you can rest assured that I am of my own will and mind and everything I do is sure not to please everyone.

As for me talking balls? You haven't posted a single solitary fact on the contrary of what I have posted. All you have done is continue to turn up like a cracked record telling me I am wrong but without fact. Then, when I show you some fact (note pic of razer mouse) you just totally brush it to one side and continue to go fucking on and on and on and on.

If you're going to debate something do it properly. "your wrong!11on1" does not show any debate skills whatsoever. Also, learn when and when not to debate things without making yourself look like an asshole. In this case had I come along and asked for your opinions (like I did with the cat thread) then fine, offer them up. I didn't though, did I?

So hey, if you care to sit down and explain to me factually why 1000hz is no better than 125hz accross USB? I'm all ears. But you haven't. That's why I am getting irritated.

Which is fair enough Mr Dave. I mean as I just posted if I was looking for opinion then they would be very welcome. Hardly what I did really is it? I do remember saying that they were not to everyone's taste and wouldn't be very interesting to many people.

I use a gaming keyboard and mouse at home (and the same mouse at work). I like the mouse because it's heavy, and I like heavy mice. You can fiddle with the DPI and shit, but obviously I just leave it set to one thing all the time. The Gaming keyboard I keep because I like typing on it (although I wish the backlight would default to 'off'), and because it comes with a separate 'control pad' of 11 buttons that I've assigned to different programming commands. I let's me press more keys at one time that a normal keyboard would, but it certainly doesn't 'react' faster. By far the best way to make a keyboard do that would be to reduce the travel distance from the key to the sensor.

Granted, but there's a difference between "the Internet" and Beex - if I post some facts (or opinions) on "the Internet" people will always be there to tell me I'm wrong. If I do the same on Beex, well, people normally still come along to tell me I'm wrong.
The difference is, if I do it on Beex, it generally means that I am wrong*.


*Except for which films are musicals

I tried to explain that usually (in most cases I have found) gaming devices are usually a lot more hard wearing and so on due to them being designed to take a battering. Yet none of that seems to matter.

The reaction thing is there. But, as you say (and as Dave pointed out, making me think about it) they are so small you would need to play a game through a high speed camera and watch it back to see if it has an effect, if any. That's fair enough, even if I don't care lol. I am now wiser.

I also tinkered with my mouse a few times and played with the settings and so on. No point doing it again, because now it's like that comfy old sofa that you love but is all battered and worn.