Be Excellent To Each Other

I still haven't figured out why that's such a disaster.

A fuck load more, let me tell you.

Well, according to the "assumptions" of my parents generation of the way I look, I am a drug addict, violent, thieving, hooligan who is more likely to spend time in jail than in a steady job. So when I hear these prejudices being spoken by the people of my own generation towards others, I can see it from a very different angle from most.

Like I said, an arsehole is an arsehole, regardless of what ever "type" they fit into.

The negativity on these boards towards the world and its' people gets me down sometimes.

At least 90% of people are rubbish though, so the boards are just being realistic.

So, no offence, just out of sheer interest, why do you make a point of dressing in common with a subculture that is looked down on so much?

He's talking about his parents' assumptions rather than our ones about chavs, so maybe he means he dresses like a Teddy Boy?

Pupil and friends, yesterday:

Oh, completely true - not everyone can be a brain surgeon. I made a distinction in my first post on this between being not very bright, and taking pride in ignorance. It's this dumbed down culture I dislike.

For example, I've encountered people who consider anyone who reads poetry or listen to classical music to be wrong in some way. These are things I've been criticised for, usually along the lines of "OMG that's gay" or something equally witty and cutting, by the wilfully ignorant people I'm on about. You don't like it? Fine. You don't understand it? Also fine - there's a lot of stuff I don't understand. You're going to slag someone off for liking something you've never even tried because it's not "cool" in your peer group? Not very fine at all.

Several posts while I've been writing this - Grim..., it's the pride people take in ignorance that I comsider a problem.

Pupil - I get your point, I have assumptions made about me on the way I look (long hair, heavy metal t-shirts), some positive and some negative. I choose to look this way, however, accepting that these assumptions will be made. If someone choose to dress like a chav, it will be assumed they are one, positive or negative assumption depending on point of view. I've made it clear what my point of view is, and why.

Me or Grim...?

So... What ICE did you have in the back of your modded hatchback? And where did you buy your caps?

You I think, mate. He knows what I dress like

You, based on your comment of your parent's views of how you dress. Or is that them massively exaggerating because they're parents?

I'm interested, because I don't see 'chav' dress culture as being:

1) Flattering to the owner
2) Outrageous enough to be a statement, like punk dress
3) Even nice to wear (cf. jeans halfway down the arse)

Ha, I wish!

Nylon shell suit bottoms tucked into white socks and wearing white trainers. WTF is that about?

Grim, you are aware that English isn't even my native language? Maybe if your Portuguese is proportionally as good as my English, you're entitled to make fun.

Craster's poster-child for the next generation.

Yesterday.

No, bollocks. I'm going to judge you from your appearance, and your appearance on this board is the way you write. Why should I find out anything about you, what you can actually do or what you're like? I'll just assume you're stupid.

Do you see?

I've always thought a persons appearance was their avatar.

The post content is their... well... speech.

Only if he starts posting on a Portuguese forum, surely?

I've got a few caps, most bought cheaply from a sports shop somewhere, they were handy when I was growing my hair, before it was long enough to tie back. One more expensive one, with the football team I support on it, which I wear on the rare occasions I got to the pub to watch a game.

I don't drive, no desire or need to, so don't have a car. I've listened to some of the music that comes out of those modded hatchbacks (it's hard to avoid...), and it's rubbish. Not only heard it when they drive past either, worked with people who've played it, so I've heard enough to judge.

Find me a chav who can give me a reasoned argument why they dislike classical music, poetry, anime, heavy metal, rpg computer games, or folk music, and I'll concede your point.

In that case, your a dog

RuySan speaks (or writes) very good English, of course. I meant no offence, I was simply trying to make a point.

Also, Ste (not picking on you mate, just making a point) have you ever been to Helter Skelter or Gatecrasher? Would you, even though I'm guessing it isn't the accepted thing for your peer group? If not, why not, considering your views on trying things that aren't "cool" because of your peer group?

BTW, I have, and had wicked nights

Re: my appearance, I'm covered in tattoo's and have had various concoctions of dreads, facial piercings and battered clothing since I was a young teenager. I have 45mm stretched plates in my lobes and get shit off people for them practically EVERY day. And I do it because I love my tats/holes etc and not because I am a smackhead (contrary to what many may think).

Now we're talking about people's opinions being wrong? How about if I find you a chav that likes all those things (except for folk music)?

Since when did this become fashion and negativity? Other than calling Thatcher a cunt, which is always in fashion.

Moaning about chavs != moaning about working class people with shit clothes and who don't know what quixotic means.

grim, do you have a Pitbull?

Ah, OK - ignore my queries regarding chav dress then, as that clearly doesn't apply.

As far as I am concerned people can dress/pierce/paint whatever the hell they like - I just don't get the 'herd dressing' of the subsection of people commonly referred to as chavs - it seems to have no redeeming qualities.

For Jamies Harries fans everywhere, heres a photo gallery.

http://www.tongs.org.uk/wiki.pl?JamesHarries

But of all the people I've encountered who look like that, the worst thing has been a particularly pushy Big Issue salesman. I've never been threatened by someone who looks like how you describe yourself, or seen such a person start a fight in a pub, or seen them breaking windows for fun. I have, on the other hand, witnessed this sort of thing and much other anti-social behaviour from people who look like "chavs".

I've got no problem with heavily-tatooed people or people covered in metal, but I must confess that streched plates make me go 'eugh' in the shivery way. Does it not hurt, man?

No, I'm rubbish. I used to have a rottweiler called 'Funky', though. He was a big fucker, even for a 'weiler. i'd say about 50% of people crossed the road to get out of his way

What's your definition of chav, CUS?

Not those particular clubs, no, but others. Had some ok nights there, if I've been with friends, although I've usually hated the music. That's also been true of places I've been with my peer group, as I dislike a lot of music that gets played at rock pubs/clubs as well. I'm happy to try things, generally, with some exceptions obviously. Classical music is a good example of this - I assumed I would hate it, until a friend insisted I listen to some, and quite quickly I was into it.

Also, my specific point is not that people should necessarily try everything, it's that criticizing others because it's not 'cool' to like something is wrong.

My parents generation disagrees with you. Like I say, prejudice.

Well, if your parents had encountered people who look like you who'd duffed them up and nicked their money I could understand where they're coming from. I take it they haven't, though?

Whereas with our "chavs" I suspect everyone has had negative experiences with them - which creates rather more warranted assumptions... doesn't it?

the point is not "Our taste is better than them" or "we dress better then them". I can live with that. It's the question of willful ignorance, that already has been discussed, and the perception of the "cool-factor" in crime activites and general rudeness. To me this is subverting the natural process of society evolution and respect for others.

I'm not saying their opinions are wrong - I'm saying that they are not based on knowledge. For example "Anime? That's just cartoons, why are you watching kids stuff"? If someone knows what it is, and dislikes it, fine. To slag it off without knowing anything bout it, not fine.

Actually fuck it, yes if someone has an opinion on something based on incorrect information or no information at all, I will say it's wrong.

Some things are just empirically wrong, though. Like Jim Davidson, Frey Bentos Pies and not fancying Katie Sackhoff.

I don't think they're Thatchers children. Dennis certainly couldn't have sired all of them and I can't think of anyone else who would 'do the funky chicken' with Mags.

She aint all that, but out of politeness, yes.

Maybe she's like a queen ant. Gets pregnant once and then just keeps churning out thousands of them.

Dressing like that will get your head kicked in for you in all kinds of depressed northern towns.

I'm not going to talk about "chavs", but if someone can come up with a label for aggressive thugs who swear and beat up people who look different (instead of just sniggering at them on the internet), while almost all wearing tracksuits and hoodies, then that would be great. Then I can say those people are scum, without offending people who wear trainers and leisurewear otherwise.

Somewhere along the line "chav" seems to have been expanded to cover a lot of typically working class people- a lot of my family would probably look "chavvy." But they're not "rat faced proles". I would guess that, semantics aside, everyone "knows" what people mean when they talk about chavscum, and a lot of this debate is just picking at definitions for the sake of looking liberal.

Live in Middlesbrough for some years, and you'll understand what people who've lived there know as "chavs". It's not about wearing tracksuits.

'Cunts'

I grew up in Millom. I was a goff. You speak true.

Exactly, and it's not even about "wilful ignorance" or any of that bollocks. It's about a worryingly large set of horrible cunts who go around being fucking horrible to anyone who isn't like them.

I think, a chav has no class.

Ergh, chavs.
Loud, loutish, anitsocial behaviour, no class whatsoever and an inability to speak the queen's English.

It's "Queen's"

You'll have a field day with the rest of my typing...my fingers and brain had a falling out years ago...

Nah, I just like ironic typos. I agree with you, by the way, that they have no class whatsoever, though we may differ on meanings.

Deer lore, that last bit is pseudy.

I mean that I don't think chavs belong to a class in the 'upper/middle/lower/working' class system (which exists only within each individual/mob). They're kind of adrift.

Being a moron, being ill-educated, being illiterate, these are all old things, and a terrible way to try and group together vast quantities of people across generations, as chavs. Which is why it pisses me off when I hear Jade Goody described as a chav, just because she said something fogging stupid.

This is why, really -- poor education fuels the absolute belief of yob who beats you up because your skin is a different colour; the small-mindedness of the gang whose universe is defined by the savagely defended borders of their estate; the confidence of the mother who attempts to scam the public by pretending her daughter has been abducted in the brilliance of her brain-dead scheme. Hence education being viewed as a right that can be justifiably rejected rather than a responsibility that one is obliged to fulfil is an objectively sub-optimal state of affairs.

We've also got the peskily persistent belief in this country that certain people are "thick" and can't be educated, which international study has shown to be nonsense. You might have a lower cognitive load than is average and it might subsequently take you longer to build up an increasingly complex knowledge-base, but with continuity in your learning academic progress is achievable. There's really no excuse for people (and, consequently, wider society) being disadvantaged in this fashion.