Be Excellent To Each Other

I don't really see that as an issue - computer simulation had figured that was the time to stop on both a two stop and three stop strategy. But moreover, Alonso is a confident driver, and he'd reckon with a light fuel tank, he could make decent progress through the field. (Don't forget Hamiltons light fuel gamble in Monaco this year, for example)



Well, yes. But I'm of the opinion that the $100m fine was unjust, and this was overall a fairer punishment.

Yeah, I was stirring shit for the sake of it. Good a driver that he is I still think Alonso is a shit stirrer when necessary and I have a lot less respect for him after the McLaren debacle two years ago.



There is that. Last year looked for all intents and purposes like a Ron Dennis witch hunt.

And there will be a lot of drivers needing new management now Briatore has been booted.

I'm not exactly a massive Piquet Jr fan (he was rubbish), but I'm getting a bit annoyed by the media's reaction to this, saying that he should have refused to crash his car and that he shouldn't have got off scot free. I'm sorry, but if you're worried about losing your job as it is, you don't tend to say no to your employers.

Briatore and Symonds were big and ugly enough to know better, but Piquet was just following orders. Hamilton got away with liegate earlier this season because he said he was doing the same, so why shouldn't Piquet?

So were most of the Nazis. The difference between Piquet and Hamilton is that Hamilton only cheated, he didn't put people's lives in danger by deliberately causing a crash. I don't care what FIA say or do to him, it's almost a criminal matter. Oh, but he helped their enquiries so that's ok.

Right, so imagine the pressure you're under; you're not exactly setting the world on fire in your first season in F1, and your job's under threat. I can imagine that Briatore didn't really give him much of a choice about the matter (ie do this or you're out).

Yes, he shouldn't have agreed to do it, but people put under immense stress do crazy things, especially when their livelihood depends on it. If he'd been a 10 year + veteran then it'd have been inexcusable, but I think there are mitigating factors in this case.

Also, you're not an expert on professional motor racing now you've maxed out Burnout, you know.

I've had a scan through the rules, and I can't find anything that says that you're not allowed to crash your car. The only rule he seems to have broken is the 'team tactics' one.

Surely there are rules about not doing dangerous things that pretty much cover it though?

I'm amazed that he agreed to do it just by virtue of the fact that he was putting his own life in danger. Ain't no job worth that.

I'm an expert on crashes, although admittedly only the accidental kind. I'm sure the Nazi lieutenants were put under pressure and were more than a tad worried about getting on Hitler's bad side too, but they were still rightly convicted for their crimes. Yes, it's not easy to resist, but that doesn't absolve him of responsibility for his own actions. I can see why motor racing would let off the "little fish" in order to nail the bigger fish, but the wider world shouldn't.

Racing is a dangerous thing. Bear in mind that what he did was really about this dangerous: " "

Thinking about it, he probably broke the "deliberate obstruction" rule in a rather odd way.

Cor, it didn't take long for someone to compare a sporting incident to Hitler. Well done!

Now that's hyperbole.

I dunno, he wasn't exactly on the racing line, being effectively in the wall halfway along the straight. Plenty of track he was making no attempts to block.

Thank you, thank you. I'm off to Bits and Bobs to compare parents forcing their children to be vegetarian to Stalin

I understand that there are extenuating circumstances and I can understand he felt victimised and under an enormous amount of pressure to do this, but the simple fact of the matter is that he chose to do this to protect his career and kept schtum about it for 10 months to protect his seat. He got off without being banned from motorsport for life but if he thinks he's going to get another seat in F1 he's deluding himself. Much as I can understand his judgement being clouded by the pressure what he should have done is said no in the first place and gone straight to the FIA then. He's a fucking idiot for doing this and I think he realises this now and he does deserve to be pilloried for it.

Much as he would be if the incident never occurred, of course

The main thing is: What sponsor is going to want to be connected to him now?

"Hi, I'm Nelson Piquet Jr, and I can crash for Brazil Spain. I recommend using Smirnoff Vodka to gain crashing skills which rival mine"

I've not read all that much about this, but are all team radio communications recorded so they can be checked later on?

I was just wondering how, if the kid had decided not to stuff his car, he could have proved being asked to crash it.

Worried about losing your job, have a family to feed and no other income and you're asked to do something dodgy? Hmm. Maybe justifiable.

Worried about losing your job which is a paid extension of your hobby when you and your father are multi millionaires and you're asked to do sonething dodgy which could, possibly, kill someone if it went wrong? Gtff.

You've surpassed Even your ridiculous extension if devils advocacy this time myp.

I think myp has a point. In the "good old days" of F1 both Senna and Schumacher have not only put their own lives in danger but other peoples too by crashing into fellow racers just to win. These guys weren't even ordered by their teams they did it off their own backs. Yet they are both held in high esteem in F1 for being fierce competitors, especially Senna, when what they should be seen as are despicable cheats. I appreciate times have changed but these views should be polar opposites.

You left out Hitler.

Piquet didn't grass up his team to see 'the right thing done'. He did it because he was spiteful and wanted to fuck them over.

And using the past as a lovely example of things we did in the past and ignoring the negatives to justify similar behaviour today is bollocks. Otherwise there would be a slave cooking my dinner and I'd call sambo through to pour me a glass of wine.

Crowbarred in the slave trade though. Slavery > Hitler.

As an aside, if all the Beexers lived 250 years ago then I would vote Riles "most likely to own most slaves"

I can't keep one wife in line with Dick and Discipline, I doubt I'd be able to control a whole gang.

@Riles

I am pretty sure if you asked Schumacher, today, whether he crashed into Damon Hill on purpose he would say no. He is protecting himself, Piquet is not. I am in no way condoning what Piquet did, but I can see why he did it. I think Renault were pretty stupid to create a disgruntled ex employee with that sort of knowledge.

And as you alluded to above comparing slavery to a sport is even more bollocks than talking about something that happened in a sport less than 15 years ago.

However, Piquet isn't doing it because he feels terrible having seen the error of his ways. He's done it to be a spiteful cunt.

Yes, but history is written by the winners and as Liz Taylor famously said, "There's no deodorant like success".

You could argue these points all day, but Senna, Prost, Schumy acted despicably to win, not to save their mediocre asses from getting canned. It was wrong but then you could also argue that F1 is a much BIGGER sport now than it was even ten years ago. I'm not saying it doesn't stink and I do feel for PK jr, but he shouldn't have crashed out for a team mate without some parachute in the way of a written contract extension.

I also have issues with the alleged fact that PK sr apparently told Charlie Whiting in October last year and nothing was done. The whole thing fucking stinks in my opinion.

I would have done exactly the same thing. I'd have thought about the consequeces afterwards and realised that I'd fucked up my career, but I would have grassed them up. For a couple of powerful bullies to have put that pressure on him to risk his life on purpose is a lot worse than him buckling and doing it.

Yes you're right, that's exactly where he went wrong

At least he has a plan for the Red Bull Air Race now.

So you are saying that to risk yours and someone else's life to prove you are better is more justifiable than being pressured to risk your own life, and let's be honest safety in F1 is much greater these days.

I do agree though, that the whole thing stinks. However does all this controversy keep F1 in the news. It almost seems these days that the powers behind F1 are trying to add the soap opera of pro wrestling to the spectacle of F1.

With Senna, his crash was mainly due to being screwed over by Balestre, with a small amount of Prost deliberately hitting him the previous year.

I find that understandable, if not desirable.

So what we are saying then is it is understandable, but not desireable, to fiddle results when a world championship is at stake but the NP jr incident is worth serious investigation. The audience figures might have changed for F1 but the win at all costs attitude of the people behind it hasn't. You could argue that Senna crashed on purpose because he was standing up for his principles but it doesn't detract from the fact that what he did was dangerous and race deciding, which is surely what the NP jr case is about.

I think a lot of young drivers would have done what Piquet did. This doesn't excuse it but, again, I can see why he did it and I can see why he was pissed off.

Motorsport has always been about rich people enjoying themselves and an associate of mine has contended that F1 has been sportingly dubious for decades. I'm inclined to trust him. Looking at it though, with hindsight, I think that Mosely had the last laugh.

What does "sportingly dubious" mean, exactly?

Heh.

Yep, Hamiltons engine glitch that managed to repair itself after a minute or two, but cost him the championship has stuck with me ever since. I also remember some dude ringing in to 5 Live after that race and saying he was a McLaren employee who had been told Hamilton wouldn't win the championship, bear in mind this was after the nicking information thing with McLaren and Ferrari. Could well be a hoax but they cut him off after a very small amount of questioning considering his allegations, and they never mentioned it again.

PROTIP: If you can afford to run a 400 million a year car racing team, you can lose a few libel suits.

I'll remember that for the next time I call someone in the public eye a puppy touching tax dodger. It happens more than you'd think.

I'm offering brighter solutions for a better tomorrow.

Cheers, you puppy touching tax dodger.

I'm sure BBC reporting is getting worse. Spot the deliberate mistake.

Damm he was good at Mclaren

"Raikkonen finished third in his first season at Ferrari in 2008"

Well, he didn't have a second season at Ferrari in 2008, what with there only being one season per year, so factually accurate

I think Kimi is doing a good job for Ferrari, I wonder if he has a seat at McLaren waiting?

2008 wasn't his first season at Ferrari. He won the title for them in 2007.

They've changed it now, anyway. It originally said he won the Drivers' Championship for McLaren in 2007. Alonso and Hamilton were at McLaren, then.

The website seems to routinely put up stories without subbing or fact checking. Raikkonens first season with Ferrari was 2007 though?

edit - damn, you could have waited

Yesterday I spotted a story on their entertainment section that claimed that Mickey Rourke won the best actor Oscar last year for The Wrestler. It's since been changed to "nomination"

You would have thought they have a factual checking process before posting anything online.

Obviously not

Yes, I think what I said went over your head a little. It depends on the emphasis in the sentence.

Raikkonen finished third in his first season at Ferrari in 2008 vs Raikkonen finished third in his first season at Ferrari in 2008.

(Yes, I'm being silly. Given my fairly obvious long standing McLaren bias, I'm hardly likely to not know how 2007 ended)

Oh, I got it, I just thought you'd missed the actual error.

Sorry I forgot to laugh.