Be Excellent To Each Other

Run that by me again please?

Right so you know your onions about GT4.... which would have the same problems on XP, Vista & 7

Now to the Windows 7 OS?

Run that by me again please?

MS-DOS was a renamed form of 86-DOS (informally known as the Quick-and-Dirty Operating System or Q-DOS)[2] owned by Seattle Computer Products, written by Tim Paterson.[2] Microsoft needed an operating system for the then-new Intel 8086 but it had none available, so it licensed 86-DOS and released a version of it as MS-DOS 1.0.[2] Development started on 1981, and MS-DOS 1.0 was released with the IBM PC on 1982.[2] Tim Paterson is considered the original author of DOS and he is called "The Father of DOS".[2][n 1]

Worried by possible legal problems, in June 1981 Microsoft made an offer to Rod Brock, the owner of Seattle Computer, to buy the rights for 86-DOS. An agreement to release all rights to the software was signed on June 1981. The total cost was $75,000.[3][n 2]

I really wish people would stop misspelling 'twaddle'.

JC: whatever you say about Bill Gates 'stealing' other OSes, the fact is that he pioneered computers in the home. If it weren't for him, we probably wouldn't have computers as we know them. Hence the Alienware quip.

Linux (you really need to know backend stuff with no GUI to be good at it)

I'll find the article in a little while and I will give you a link to it. And then, like everything else I have said it will be proven not to be 'twoddle'.

Quite why you seem to be having so much trouble accepting anything I said earlier is beyond me, seeing as I have proven every single thing I said today so far.

The popular technology website Slashdot plumbed new depths on Tuesday with a post about the terrible DRM situation in Windows 7. Proving that some sites will publish just about anything as long as it's anti-Microsoft, the post enumerated the DRM restrictions that Windows 7 apparently inflicts on the honest and upstanding computer user.

What was claimed? Well, some guy decided that he wanted to crack his (legally purchased, no doubt) copy of Photoshop on his Windows 7 install. Windows 7 then sprung into life to break his crack, defend Photoshop's virtue against his unwelcome advances, protect a load of random DLLs from deletion, and open up the firewall so that Adobe could see that he was up to no good. Yup yup. To add insult to injury, Windows 7 then crippled the dude's sound card. Or something.

As is so often the case with this kind of story, the truth is more prosaic. The most likely reason that Photoshop broke is that either the crack didn't work or was the wrong version. Windows doesn't actually know what Photoshop is—it's just another application, no different from any other—and the operating system certainly doesn't contain special programming to detect and destroy Photoshop cracks.

Nor, for that matter, did Windows 7 magically open up the firewall. The Photoshop installer did that. And it only had permission to do that because the person installing the software gave it Administrator privileges so that it had access to the firewall configuration.

And the audio capabilities? They're largely determined by the sound drivers that are installed. The ones that ship on-disc are quite limited and don't offer any of the fancy sound processing or multiple outputs that custom drivers provide, but they do work. The particular complaint here is that Windows 7 lacks a "Stereo Mix" audio input. The "Stereo Mix" input allows the output of the sound card to be recorded directly, which is useful for capturing program output. But the reason there's no Stereo Mix is that the drivers the complainant was using doesn't support them. Third-party/custom drivers may continue to offer Stereo Mix, What-U-Hear, or any other equivalent; it's just the built-in ones that don't. They don't really do much at all, leaving scope for third parties to offer improvements on the base capabilities of the OS.

Windows 7's DRM
The more interesting question here is what DRM does Windows 7 have? Considering that Windows 7 is based on Windows Vista, it probably won't be altogether surprising to learn that Windows 7's DRM is more or less the same as Vista's. In practice, the most obvious restrictions—the ones most likely to affect people—are the ones protecting Windows itself: Product Activation and Windows Genuine Advantage. Neither of these are in any sense new, and in practice the majority of (legal) users will barely know that they exist.

Though activation caused a ruckus when XP was launched (with many fearing that it would all but end their ability to use their PCs in the way they wanted), in practice its restrictions have been quite inoffensive. Vista had its own DRM brouhaha, but this time the concern was not over the DRM protecting the operating system itself, but rather the DRM for protecting copyrighted sound and video.

It's true that Vista expanded on these capabilities. The Protected Video Path—designed to provide a secure way of playing back Blu-ray and HD DVD video—was new to Vista. When PVP is active, drivers must ensure that they keep the video safe. In particular, this means disabling high-resolution unencrypted outputs lest they be used to dump the decrypted, decoded video.

Particular complaints have been made about the polling that this requires; digital outputs must be checked every 30ms and analog ones every 150ms to ensure that no prohibited devices are attached. Although the system demands from this polling are negligible, it has nonetheless been blamed for Vista's relatively high system requirements.

On top of PVP, Vista includes a secure audio path called Protected User Mode Audio, or PUMA, which replaces XP's Secure Audio Path. The purpose of this is much the same as PVP; it is there to protect audio from being recorded or otherwise captured.

Though there was plenty of outcry over PUMA and PVP prior to Vista's launch, the story is once again a familiar one: most people don't notice. Little or no media actually demands the use of the protected paths, so on most users' systems, Windows never invokes them. Play back unprotected media on a Vista machine and the DRM subsystems simply don't get used.

All these Vista DRM features are found in Windows 7. But just as with Vista before it, the vast majority of users will never see the DRM in any practical sense; the features are there just in case Hollywood decides to make use of them. The overblown, unrealistic, and just plain made up horrors of DRM in Windows Vista never came to pass (in spite of the huge publicity that the Gutmann diatribe received), and so it will be with Windows 7.

When it comes to bashing Microsoft, it seems that any old canard will do; facts are strictly optional

John - your mistake here is assuming ignorance. Most people here know a good deal about Microsoft, other OSs, and the various antitrust and monopolistic practice cases that have cropped up. Microsoft use anti-competitive business practices, we know this.

The assertion that we're arguing with is you saying that Windows 7 and Microsoft are deliberately tracking everything you do by putting 'DRM' on your system and using Securom.

DRM does not track behaviour. Securom is nothing to do with Microsoft.

How can I uninstall SecuROM components from my PC, after I installed GTA IV PC?


SecuROM™ Removal:

A normal uninstall of GTAIV will remove SecuROM™ related files (other than DRM license information, as explained below).(You may also remove SecuROM™ related files by following the instructions below. Before you start the un-installation, close all programs running in the background. The link below contains a tool that removes SecuROM™:


http://www.securom.com/support/SecuROM_Uninstaller.zip


Please follow these steps:

Download the ZIP file
Extract the application into a temporary folder
Launch the application and follow the instructions
A dialog box will appear; To start the SecuROM™ un-installation, press the <Yes> button.

** Note that you need administrator rights to run this un-installation utility.


Please note that this un-installation process will not remove the SecuROM™ DRM license information. Removing the license information may result in a lost activation, or may prevent other SecuROM™ protected software on your PC from working. This uninstall process allows you to remove SecuROM-related files without losing a purchased software activation.


Also note that some or all SecuROM™ files and registry keys may be re-created in their respective locations upon each launch of a SecuROM™ protected application.


Additional Information:

Further information about SecuROM™ can be found here: http://www.securom.com/support_faq.asp.

So there is no way to remove the DRM without using Fdisk and format. Which is another reason Windows 7 can fuck off.

did you read teh article I posted, it responded to all the points raised in yours.

MS are going to make all there OS secure and need Genuine activation. How else can they protect their products?.

You are just not listening to what we are saying, are you?

I have not seen any proof that Windows 7 locks DLLs as you say

Again, you appear to have confused GTA IV with Windows 7.

John, Microsoft are paying fines because of monopolistic practices, not because they are spying on you and your tinfoil hat.

Back when XP launched you HAD to activate it over the net. It didnt work so M$ had the 'phone a friend' thing introduced instead. As time goes on these companies are taking it for granted that you have a internet connection and can activate your product.

For 6 months here up until sept last year there was only the choice of dial up. Could you imagine trying to register Vista?

Back when XP launched you HAD to activate it over the net. It didnt work so M$ had the 'phone a friend' thing introduced instead.

So you did not read it...

And you are posting twoddle, I read all of the articles that you posted in full. None of them had anythign to do with windows 7. So should I appologise for you not understanding what I am asking?

How can windows 7 beworse.

Nither has secrom andythign to do with microsoft, as a few people have told you.

Ok, here is another question, if you produced an OS how would you protect your investment?
Genuin and DRMS are used to protect theirs. Of course you are going to get hackers that open up OS. The same way people speed in cars. All you can do is try an protect your product.

That's not right. I was consulting back then, I upgraded the boss's laptop at the firm I was doing tech support for to XP within a week of the UK release. Their ISDN was down so I did the phoneline activation. XP had this option from launch.

If you use this method, the Windows Product Activation wizard establishes a connection to the activation server, sends your installation ID, and then processes the activation request.
Activate Windows XP by using your modem

If you have a modem but you do not have an Internet connection, the wizard detects your modem and establishes a connection to the activation server through your phone line.
Activate Windows XP by phone

If you do not have a modem or an Internet connection, you can activate Windows XP by calling a Microsoft customer service representative. The Activation Wizard displays the toll free number that you can dial

If you cannot activate Windows Vista over the Internet
If you are re-installing Windows or reactivating Windows, the activation process may not be completed successfully when you try to activate Windows Vista over the Internet by using the Windows Activation Wizard. If this occurs, you should activate Windows over the telephone.

To activate Windows Vista over the telephone, follow these steps:
Click StartCollapse this imageExpand this image, and then click Computer.
Click System properties on the toolbar, and then click Click here to activate Windows now in the Windows activation area.

Collapse this imageExpand this imageIf you are prompted for an administrator password or for a confirmation, type the password, or click Continue.
The Windows Activation Wizard starts.
Click Use the automated telephone system in the Windows Activation Wizard.
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That's not right. I was consulting back then, I upgraded the boss's laptop at the firm I was doing tech support for to XP within a week of the UK release. Their ISDN was down so I did the phoneline activation. XP had this option from launch.

Nope not at all. I am trying to respond to about 8 people all at once. Try it some time. I can only answer and address one post at a time.

Back when XP launched you HAD to activate it over the net. It didnt work so M$ had the 'phone a friend' thing introduced instead. As time goes on these companies are taking it for granted that you have a internet connection and can activate your product.

For 6 months here up until sept last year there was only the choice of dial up. Could you imagine trying to register Vista?

People keep going on about piracy but the money lost on piracy pales in significance to what they have to pay for such shit. And its hackable. What a fucking waste.

This isnt about piracy or losing money its about control. Companies like m$ don't like being beaten by pirates and hate having their pride dented. When rockstar released GTA4 someone said "your software will be hacked within a week" they said "we didn't spend $2.5m on nothing"

Erm, yup you did.

Did you read my initial post that you summed up as twoddle?

See, I laid down my reasons for

1. Not like m$
2. Not wanting to use W7.

To which you replied "what aload of twoddle"

So if anyone hasnt been reading anything properly if or at all Kovacs it's you. At which point I found an article to back up every single last thing I said.

You were the one disagreeing with me, not the other way around. So therefore don't put me on the back foot with a single line of text and then ask me to read anything. I have now posted information (some if not all of which I believe to be completely true) which is all I feel I have to do. Not become embroiled in what you want me to do.

As for the Windows 7 thing. I believe it. Therefore, until I am proven wrong (can you prove that it doesnt lock DLLs and let software authors fiddle with my PC?) then leave it there. Prove me wrong. I have made my case, and posted links to it. You now go and find me an article that disproves the one I believe in.

Then I'll admit I'm talking twoddle.

DRM. Digital rights something. Basically it's like Securom. It goes into your hard drive and then monitors everything that you do.

So M$ are going to install a little virus into your computer that will then give them full control over it. They claim it is to rid piracy, but tbh it's not. It's for them to monitor what you are up to and watch what you buy in order to spam you with the 'right' advertising (something google toolbar and yahoo toolbar etc) do.

They attempted it with Vista, but, Vista runs without an internet connection. W7 will not. It's basically so they can constantly nose into what you are doing and when you are doing it. Also, if you thought Vista was like playschool watch out for W7. In Vista you can disable all of it's shitty and stupid hand holding bollocks. In W7 most of it is not an option. M$ see it as improving windows, personally I see it as an insult.

Things will not change. Just like games will have more and more 'protection' in them that will invade on people's rights and privacy. The only reason securom is legal is because of money.

Piracy will still exist, and games will always be hacked and cracked. It's the innocent that are being fucked over by it. It's very similar to the ID card debate. Note how we don't have ID cards? how it was passed off as an insult? So why does it happen in digital media?

Money. Record companies, film makers, game producers all sit in a category above the law because of money. They bully people like Bleem and others into submitting by hurling enormous ammounts of money into it and bullying them into submission. Of course they were doing nothing wrong, but that didn't matter.

It's all summed up very well by the episode "Chef Aid" of South Park. Some fat semi balding cunt yells "I AM ABOVE THE LAW" and gets away with it.

As time goes by software companies are becoming worse than the people who attack it. Why do you think M$ are the CONSTANT victims of viruses, attacks, trojans and so on? it isn't because windows is easy to code viruses for, it's because people hate Bill Gates and the windows 'team'.

Macs are one of the world's easiest systems to hack and write malicious code with. I've never had a virus on a mac.

There's also the big issue of the ongoing lawsuit in which m$ get to abuse the law. Basically (I can't remember the specifics now) they did something to windows XP that made it illegal. They were fined. When they worked out the cost of the fines it was actually a lot less than the money they were making. So they just continued paying the fines and raking in the cash.

With Windows 98 they broke the law completely. In Rev 1 you *could not* get on the net without signing up for msn dial up. They were taken to court, fought it, lost and then had to release a patch allowing people to configure their own dial up net.

So they're wankers, basically. Nothing they do is to make computing better, it's *all* done to make them richer.

Sure, it's a business, but when it becomes so apparent that they care fuck all for their end user that it's obvious people tend to become rather annoyed.

FFS they stole DOS in the first place. Hardly getting off to the best of starts IMO.

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/02/17/windows-7-drm-begins.html

John. Securom is not written by Microsoft. It is not installed by any Microsoft product. It is a 3rd party anti-piracy tool that runs on XP, Vista, and Windows 7. Securom is a hateful piece of nasty ring-0 code that plays very badly with other stuff. It has nothing to do with MS or Windows 7.

SAY TWODDLE ONE MORE TIME MUTHERFUCKERS.

I've got a link too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

Well if it did I was not aware of it. So therefore I'll admit I'm wrong on that front.
I could, of course, be confusing it with the Beta version I ordered from m$ that expired.
Infact yes, I probably am.

It's 'twaddle', surely?

Yeah. You'd think that somebody might have already pointed that out, wouldn't you? Say, on page 17, halfway down...

And there was me thinking you'd buggered off to another forum in a huff!

You don't get to use urbandictionary as a language source, sorry.