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Quote:

Faced with the knowledge that the Doctor is going to destroy both the Daleks and the Timelords and end the Time War, the new, nastier, more villainous head of the Time Lords, James Bond, contrives some MacGuffin that will hide them rather than them face destruction. The hiding required some sort of key to release them, which was tied up in the Master, and is what unravelled at the end of the last episode.

This could lead to an interesting dynamic in the new series, with the Timelords hunting the Doctor. I think they make interesting antagonists, so that could be

I suspect that this could be pretty accurate, which would be interesting as they are basically super intelligent vogons. The doctor didn't fill in a blue form before he destroyed the daleks or something.

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It made sense that The Doctor would only recount the tales of the more benevolent Timelords thinking they were safely locked away. Them being properly mental grated with me at first but when I thought about that brief insight into what The Doctor could turn into in Waters of Mars (not enough of that for my liking) it made sense that they could become corrupted by their own power without anything/anyone to reel them in.

The stand off was a bit silly considering what both The Master and Tim's Gauntlet of Magic could do in an instant while the Doctor was facing the other one but again I could see how both would be intrigued to see if The Doctor would descend to their level and their absolute belief being enough to think it would be the other party that would cop it.

Wilf producing the 4 knocks was rather clever and that scene between the pair of them was as good as I have seen. Wilf's willingness to die was slightly undermined by his eagerness to get out of the booth. He could (and I believe would) have simply stayed in there and not pressed the button to sacrifice himself for The Doctor had not the demands of the plot dictated otherwise.

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The long drawn out section of the Doctor refusing to take the gun , then as soon as he realises its the Time lorders picking it up also was a bit odd (i mean whats he going to do with it? - and can someone tell me why he could not simply have sonic screwdrivered the thing holding the crystal anyway)

I'm also slightly pleased and worried to see the Blink Angels back in the trailer - it could be good , it could be bad , i dont like the idea that he's gone back to a well received baddie of his if its not for a good reason (also interesting to see River Song in there in a few different guises i really hope she's not a companion and that she just meets him in a few places and that their next meeting is *not* her first (I'm thinking maybe 2 or 3 visits but 'out of order' so that she knows some things short term that he does not)

Author:	Morte [ Sat Dec 26, 2009 22:08 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
Nirejhingle Bells wrote: I hate the manic master. I want a cool calm and collected master like old series. It also seems a waste of John Simm's talents, any old hack could play bonkers, manic Master...something that the character has never been in all his history.

Author:	Derek The Halls [ Sat Dec 26, 2009 23:27 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
I hope that if Moffat uses The Master at all (which I hope he will) he'll make him more sensible again. Moffat seems to be a fan of the Peter Davison era which is a favourite of mine as well so here's hoping..

Author:	Pundabaya [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:44 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
I enjoyed it... the MST3K mantra is your friend. I do feel sad whenever I see John Simm as the Master... he'd make a freaking awesome Doctor.

Author:	Nemmie [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:34 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
Pundabaya wrote: I do feel sad whenever I see John Simm as the Master... he'd make a freaking awesome Doctor. I really enjoyed the first part but I am concerned that the second part will just be RTD tying off the multiple loose ends before rushing to a CGI spectacular ending.

Author:	Derek The Halls [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:25 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
I'm still gutted Patterson Joseph didn't get the job.

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Author:	Zardoz [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:06 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
Wullie wrote: Aye, I forgot to say that I enjoyed it. The Gruffalo was better though The Gruffalo has been the best thing on tv this Christmas.

Author:	ltia [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 14:36 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
It's occured to me that none of the Christmas specials are any good, aside from maybe the first one. They've all been pretty formulaic except this one which was slow and meandring. I just hope it's not a case of 1. slow episode 2. CGI bollocks episode. ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view! Quote: Faced with the knowledge that the Doctor is going to destroy both the Daleks and the Timelords and end the Time War, the new, nastier, more villainous head of the Time Lords, James Bond, contrives some MacGuffin that will hide them rather than them face destruction. The hiding required some sort of key to release them, which was tied up in the Master, and is what unravelled at the end of the last episode. This could lead to an interesting dynamic in the new series, with the Timelords hunting the Doctor. I think they make interesting antagonists, so that could be I suspect that this could be pretty accurate, which would be interesting as they are basically super intelligent vogons. The doctor didn't fill in a blue form before he destroyed the daleks or something. Quote: It also seems a waste of John Simm's talents, any old hack could play bonkers, manic Master...something that the character has never been in all his history. It'd be good if they did it like the 70s master, yeah. But surely not the pantomime 80s master? Muhahahahaah! he's behind you! oh no he isn't! etc. Be handy for the christmas specials, though. I reckon Simm is great/would be great if he wasn't quite so over the top. Derek Jacobi would have been utterly awesome, though. Quote: I'm still gutted Patterson Joseph didn't get the job. Hell yes. Quote: The Gruffalo has been the best thing on tv this Christmas. It was pretty much the only thing on for my family, other than Who and the Snowman which my kids haven't seen. We also managed to watch the third Pirates of the Carribean without watching the other two about a week before it was on the fecking telly.

Author:	Morte [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 14:47 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
Watched the Gruffalo last night, best thing on telly all Christmas (so far)...although 'The Pixar Story' this morning on BBC2 was excellent.

Author:	Mr Russell [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 15:08 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
I don't really get all the Who universe, and seeing The Master killed then not killed and dead but then not dead is just confusing, so I spent a while reading up about him on Wikipedia. Now I get it, and he's pretty cool. The writing in this episode really did jar though. Pulled me out of enjoying the story for the first 15 minutes until stuff started happening.

Author:	Agent Starling [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 15:26 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
Clausiosity wrote: Oh fuck off. Every time I come here after enjoying Dr Who there's people saying it was the WORST EPISODE EVER! By my reckoning every episode since the show came back must have been terrible. Today was excellent. Thoroughly enjoyed it from start to finish, as did most other people. Can't freaking wait until the next episode! I right lapped it up. Of course it had slices of silly, but then it's Doctor Who FFS, and it's always had silly monsters and stuff in the last however many decades. I dunno, I just feel that so many people approach this way too seriously, and with their cynicism all stored up ready to come out, and their "THIS WAS SHIT!" comments pretty much pre-written in their minds. That said, I'm no fan of RTD, and overall I do think he's penned some weak episodes, so I'm quite happy he's going.

Author:	Wullie [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 15:30 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
Cliff Richardoz wrote: Wullie wrote: Aye, I forgot to say that I enjoyed it. The Gruffalo was better though The Gruffalo has been the best thing on tv this Christmas. Did the bairn enjoy it as much as you?

Author:	kalmar [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 15:35 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
There was a good show on just now about the Dr Who Target novels, if you remember those it's worth a listen. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... olice_Box/

Author:	End of an Era [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 16:14 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
I enjoyed it, but the appearance of the Time Lords makes me wonder if the next episode isn't just going to degenerate into an unlocking of the Time War and the bloody Daleks turning up again. I hope not and it takes a different direction.

Author:	Morte [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 16:33 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
kalmar wrote: There was a good show on just now about the Dr Who Target novels, if you remember those it's worth a listen. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... olice_Box/ Ooo, good find, I'll give that a listen.

Author:	chinnyhill10 [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 0:11 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
Nirejhingle Bells wrote: Also as regards the Master, I accept Roger Delgado was the definitive Master but I still quite like the Anthony Ainley version a bit. He came of age in the final McCoy who I hear. The only time he was allowed to play the character properly. But obviously Eric Roberts must be the best. Famous story of some fans visiting the set of the Davison story "Planet of Fire. In one scene Ainley gives a subdued and menacing performance. Director shouts cut and then proceeds to "direct" Ainley into doing a totally OTT camp performance. Delgado never had to suffer that because he was the only actor ever considered for the role and "created it" himself. There's a wonderful piece of studio footage from the Claws of Axos where you see him rehearsing a scene in a mirror before the scene starts. He's all smiles and then suddenly fixes that famous stare in the mirror. Terrifying. In the final Doctor Who story, Survival, Ainley gives the performance you expect he'd wanted to do all along. Menacing and on the edge. Throughout the 80's you get glimpses of how he wanted to play it from time to time but this is the real deal:

Author:	End of an Era [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:01 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
Ah, sod Doctor Who - I wish they'd "re-imagine" Blake's 7! I hope they dump Gan though. And Blake. And call it Avon's Merciless Band of Machiavellian Ne'er-do-wells. And have better special effects than a fish tank, and let's not even go down the travesty that was "the invasion from another galaxy". Worst special effects ever. I want Avon et al to ruin another Christmas!

Author:	zaphod79 [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:11 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
End of an Era wrote: Ah, sod Doctor Who - I wish they'd "re-imagine" Blake's 7! I hope they dump Gan though. And Blake. And call it Avon's Merciless Band of Machiavellian Ne'er-do-wells. And have better special effects than a fish tank, and let's not even go down the travesty that was "the invasion from another galaxy". Worst special effects ever. I want Avon et al to ruin another Christmas! Probably the only Blakes 7 reimagining we'll get :-( Part 1 Part 2

Author:	NervousPete [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:20 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
I watched Survivor [EDIT: This should have read 'Survival' but I was a bit drunk when typing this last night] a couple of years ago, I was quite impressed. True, it had a 'flavour of the month' Hale & Pace cameo, but it worked a damn site better than the wretched Paul O'Grady in the Davros-messing-with-planets bit. And I really liked the ramping up of tension, mystery and council-house mini-apocalypse that was threatening only a certain few people but people you'd come to care about quite a bit in the course of the show. Aside from that, I'd sort of fuzzy memories of enjoying some Who when I was a kid. Mainly the one with the vampire girls rising out of the misty sea to eat Russian and English commados after their parents had warned 'em not to go bathing, a terrifying ghostly Victorian house with Ace being freaked out as some maid by things my brain can't quite wrap around, and that bit with the Candyman gunking people. As an ignorant viewer, 80's Who strikes me as a war between two camps - a bunch of new folk desperate to make it creepy and awesome, and the bean counters and those who didn't want to work on the show but damned to it, wasting their time by pantomining themselves through the run. From what you say Chinny, I feel quite annoyed that Ainsley wanted to do a top frightening performance but was instead forced to do Chuckle Brothers. Oddly, it's an offshoot of the same thing that makes me want to punch Outpost Gallifrey (or whatever they're called now) posters in the face when they argue that Kate O'Mara should be brought back as the Rani. They don't realise that nostalgia of the 80's shouldn't be about the original cast, but about the principles certain of the crew tried to hold to. O'Mara is part of the god-awful panto. If you were to go the Rani route again it'd have to be someone like the wonderful Susanna Harker or Tilda Swinton to work.

Author:	kalmar [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 17:34 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
Nirejhingle Bells wrote: The 10 Doctors Vs Daleks Vs Timelords Vs Cybermen Vs Sontarans Vs 4 Billion The Masters Vs K9 FTFY

Author:	Doctor Glyndwr [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 17:39 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
Needs more Batman.

Author:	MarzSyndrome [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 21:04 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
On a sort of Who-related note, anyone checked this charming little clip? http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/featu ... ure_091211

Author:	kalmar [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 0:37 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
For me, this is The Master. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nPSUOab2dI I really must get around to buying this ASAP, it's nostalgiatastic. Awesome! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38UWzkVC ... re=related

Author:	Derek The Halls [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 0:40 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
Ainley is much more like Delgado in the Survival clip. I want the master to be like that. It makes sense. Rather than the manic incoherent fool we have to suffer now.

Author:	kalmar [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:05 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
Has to be said, Chinny's Xbox avatar bears more than a passing resemblance to An Master.

Author:	NervousPete [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:27 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
I've only seen one Davison adventure, by the way. 'The Five Doctors'. I liked it quite a bit, but I've seen no others by him. Shame, because he made a big impression on me when I watched it on VHS at a tender age.

Author:	Derek The Halls [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:04 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
I loved the Survivors reimagining. It beat Doctor Who and Torchwood into a cocked hat. As they say. You may be pleased to know it's due back on in January. Some of the Davison episodes are poor, such as Warriors from the Deep (though that was largely due to the terrible murka Special effect) but on the whole it feels a bit more of an intellectual version of the series. Especially the intro episode Castrovalva which is quite odd. There's quite a few episodes that are great in principle but are let down a bit by the poor acting. Snakedance is one such episode. Terminus is one of my favourites along with Four to Doomsday. Black Orchid was very good, short and very different. It's well worth giving the Davison era a look. I don't know much about the episodes after Davison as that's where I stop watching.

Author:	NervousPete [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:16 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
Nirejhingle Bells wrote: I loved the Survivors reimagining. It beat Doctor Who and Torchwood into a cocked hat. As they say. You may be pleased to know it's due back on in January. Some of the Davison episodes are poor, such as Warriors from the Deep (though that was largely due to the terrible murka Special effect) but on the whole it feels a bit more of an intellectual version of the series. Especially the intro episode Castrovalva which is quite odd. There's quite a few episodes that are great in principle but are let down a bit by the poor acting. Snakedance is one such episode. Terminus is one of my favourites along with Four to Doomsday. Black Orchid was very good, short and very different. It's well worth giving the Davison era a look. I don't know much about the episodes after Davison as that's where I stop watching. Cool, I'd like to check out those recommended options. By the way, 'fraid I meant 'Survival' as in the McCoy adventure and not 'Survivors'. Though I did see both versions of the latter and was very impressed. You may have been wondering at what point Hale & Pace turned up from my mistyped post, though.

Author:	romanista [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
is there a replay of the christmas episode ( i ahve bbc three/four these days)

Author:	ltia [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:30 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
There's actually a few good stories throughout the 80s, but there's just something crappy about them that gets progressively worse. Even Colin Baker's first season has some really good stories. Most of Tom Baker's last season is worth a look and Peter Davison's Caves of Androzani is pretty fantastic - as good as any 60s or 70s Who. The 'vampire girls' one - The Curse of Fenric - is really good if you can get past the something crappiness. The pit of despair is Colin Baker's second season and Silvester McCoy's first. It really does look like they were actually trying to make it shit at that point. Stuff like Paradise Towers (which I remembered as being great when it was first on) is the best example of a great idea gone horribly wrong. There's something good about it in there somewhere.

Author:	chinnyhill10 [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:55 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
80's Who worth watching: The Visitation - (great historical setting) Earthshock - (no happy ending, no waving sonic screwdriver to reverse time) Five Doctors - (It has FIVE Doctors) Resurrection of the Daleks - (all star cast) Caves Of Androzani - (all time classic) Vengeance On Varos - (clever idea) Mark Of The Rani - (great location work) The Two Doctors - (Just for Pat Troughton and Peri in a skimpy top). Remembrance Of the Daleks - (It's a proper old school Dalek story with cool chases and big explosions) Curse Of Fenric (Special Edition) - (Nicholas Parsons proves he's actually quite a good actor. The SE version addresses the forced timing edits) Ghostlight - (Sinister, dark, very clever) Survival - (Ainley is great, the terror in the suburbs setting is far more effective than anything the new series has done). Silver Nemesis is also worth watching for shits and giggles. Its not the greatest story (and has exactly the same plot as Remembrance of The Daleks) but is great fun if you can visit Arundel Park as you can wander around pretending to be the Doctor.

Author:	chinnyhill10 [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:07 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
NativityPete wrote: As an ignorant viewer, 80's Who strikes me as a war between two camps - a bunch of new folk desperate to make it creepy and awesome, and the bean counters and those who didn't want to work on the show but damned to it, wasting their time by pantomining themselves through the run. From what you say Chinny, I feel quite annoyed that Ainsley wanted to do a top frightening performance but was instead forced to do Chuckle Brothers. There's an awful lot of politics involved as well. In fact people forget that Tom Bakers era got very silly at times due to the show being criticised about the violence levels and they also ran out of money as well. During Bakers era, due to inflation, they had 40% less money in 1979 than they had in 1977! Fanboys ignore shit like Nightmare on Eden preferring to stick the knife into the 80's era. 80's Who suffered the same way. There was an awful lot of politics going on and its ironic that the show was cancelled just as it looked as if they now had the writers and directors who could carry it off. One of the tragedies of 80's who that was Graeme Harper was twice booked to direct stories that he never got to work on. The first was in the cancelled '86 season, the second was Battlefield where a scheduling conflict meant that he had to pull out to direct an episode of Boon. Shame because Battlefields direction was awful and it actually spoils a decent story.

Author:	Mr Dave [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
chinnyhill10 wrote: Silver Nemesis is also worth watching for shits and giggles. Its not the greatest story (and has exactly the same plot as Remembrance of The Daleks) but is great fun if you can visit Arundel Park as you can wander around pretending to be the Doctor. The story of silver nemesis is beyond laughable, sadly. It's just utterly ridiculous. Nazis, some irritating duffer from medieval times, her snivelling yes-man and the cyberman all converge in one horrible contrived mess. One of my friends was, apparently one of the cybermen though. (He also played a mans arse in one of the new episodes. I think it was the idiots lantern.)

Author:	chinnyhill10 [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 13:09 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
Mr Dave wrote: chinnyhill10 wrote: Silver Nemesis is also worth watching for shits and giggles. Its not the greatest story (and has exactly the same plot as Remembrance of The Daleks) but is great fun if you can visit Arundel Park as you can wander around pretending to be the Doctor. The story of silver nemesis is beyond laughable, sadly. It's just utterly ridiculous. Nazis, some irritating duffer from medieval times, her snivelling yes-man and the cyberman all converge in one horrible contrived mess. One of my friends was, apparently one of the cybermen though. (He also played a mans arse in one of the new episodes. I think it was the idiots lantern.) Like I say, if you go to Arundel Park it takes on a whole new life. Didn't care for it much before but walking around there it feels like you are part of the story. Just like the Doctor you arrive there and eventually end up at the big folly and then you can dick around next to it pretending to be Cybermen. A great (and free) day out.

Author:	chinnyhill10 [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 18:25 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
End of an Era wrote: I want Avon et al to ruin another Christmas! I have a signed photo of Paul Darrow in costume. It takes pride of place on my "wall of fame".

Author:	RBR2 [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 22:10 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who

Author:	chinnyhill10 [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 0:26 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
mrak wrote: Silver Nemesis fact: I forced my parents to take me to Windsor on my 9th birthday to go to the castle where Silver Nemesis was set. For the non fans, the irony here is that the production team couldn't get permission to use Windsor Castle or the park so went to Arundel instead.

Author:	Derek The Halls [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:18 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
I bought the Silver Nemesis from Scope in Huddersfield yesterday for £1. On VHS obviously.

Author:	Derek The Halls [ Fri Jan 01, 2010 23:26 ]
Post subject:	Re: Doctor Who
So. Improvement on the previous episode. Still didn't really make much sense but had a few nice emotional moments. The trailer for new series looked pretty good to me. As does Amy Pond.