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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 19:51 
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I quite enjoyed that.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 19:54 
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Proper response to follow (probably after a sleep and a second viewing), but for now:

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
i. Wow! Felt like a whole new show, but still essentially 'Doctor Who'
ii. She was definitely the Doctor, although I'd been convinced of that since the grin reflected in the Tardis's monitor back on Christmas Day.
iii. Love the new theme tune. Gone are the triumphent trumpets and orchsetrations, making it spookier than before
iv. As a dyspraxic; yeah, some bits hit home to me but I'll discuss that when I'm next tired and emotional.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 20:00 
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Oh, and:

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Proper cliffhanger that wasn't immediately ruined by the 'next time' screen.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 20:04 
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I have that microwave.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 20:07 
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Kern wrote:
Proper response to follow (probably after a sleep and a second viewing), but for now:

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
i. Wow! Felt like a whole new show, but still essentially 'Doctor Who'
ii. She was definitely the Doctor, although I'd been convinced of that since the grin reflected in the Tardis's monitor back on Christmas Day.
iii. Love the new theme tune. Gone are the triumphent trumpets and orchsetrations, making it spookier than before
iv. As a dyspraxic; yeah, some bits hit home to me but I'll discuss that when I'm next tired and emotional.

:luv:

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 20:39 
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I liked it

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 21:29 
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Yeah, that was ace fun.

I totally love her.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 22:14 
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Curiosity wrote:
Yeah, that was ace fun.

I totally love her.

Same. She's totes adorb.

Instantly authoritative too. Good combo.

There were a few Capaldi-esque moments to ease the transition. Where he would switch from cold authority to goofy in a blink. I suppose The Doctor always does that though


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 22:53 
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Yeah, she's the Doctor. A nice couple of jokes about being a woman but only in passing and not dwelled upon too much. It's no big deal, as it shouldn't be.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 0:06 
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I didn't watch a lot of Capaldi for some reason but I thought I'd best make the effort for Jodie and I'm glad I did! I enjoyed that.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:28 
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I enjoyed it. Will be up for watching the second episode. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:08 
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Goddess Jasmine wrote:
I enjoyed it. Will be up for watching the second episode. :)


At the cottage? Is there a tv?

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:49 
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KovacsC wrote:
Goddess Jasmine wrote:
I enjoyed it. Will be up for watching the second episode. :)


At the cottage? Is there a tv?

...

I...

...

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:50 
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No guarantee it'll get a signal. I think they stopped 405-line VHF ages ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:50 
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You should take one Kov, just to be sure.

Probably best to get a massive one so everyone can see it.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:51 
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Zardoz wrote:
You should take one Kev

lulz

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:58 
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I did a fix!

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:30 
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Grim... wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
Goddess Jasmine wrote:
I enjoyed it. Will be up for watching the second episode. :)


At the cottage? Is there a tv?

...

I...

...

I can only assume it's a reference to when I asked about the TV last year...


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 17:57 
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So, my review with very minor spoilers and a scene-setting rant at the start...


So, Doctor Who, eh? I was a bit worried in the run up to this. I really disliked nearly all of Moffat's run. Though I enjoyed the first season of Matt Smith's Doctor Who, I quickly found the Emperor to be sans wardrobe. Each season-arc mystery relied on blink and you'll miss it (oh-ho!) hurriedly mumbled dialogue that we'd desperately have to store away in the hope it'd result in a finale making sense and even when the cliffhanger was resolved, the result would just mean the immediate setting up of another irritating mystery. Characters revealed themselves to have no natural motivation or agency, but were merely slaves to setting up the next pointless clue or indulge in a bit of meme-generating quippery or fan-service. The charisma and acting chops of Karen Gillan were wasted on Amy Pond, an initially very likable character who somehow became a selfish, sullen emotional cripple. She was then replaced by Clara, a character created purely to be the component of another mystery, with Moffat seemingly unaware that if you don't give a damn about the characters, you don't give a damn about the plot. Matt Smith's season crashed following Moffat's attempt to infect the entire history of the canon with idiocy and what remained burned to salty ash with a Christmas episode that made no damn sense and failed to generate any feels, despite his heroic efforts, which was then followed by Capaldi's introduction doubling-down on the sins of the previous re-generation. Only the 50 Year special offered some relief, with it being a pretty entertaining adventure - despite some irritating ret-conning. Bill Potts proved marginally more interesting but by then it was too late. I just couldn't give a damn about anyone involved. I dipped in for the odd episode to see if things had improved, but they hadn't. It was the same thing again and again; characters doing things for no reason other than to advance the plot and the Doctor being selfish and obnoxious with everyone constantly talking about him - somehow he became Poochie. Only without the grace to die on his way to his home planet.

I had no beef with the acting. Jenna Coleman has been great in other shows, but clearly she was struggling with no direction as to what her character was supposed to be. Capaldi gamely tried to create something but was saddled with the turn-on-a-sixpence emotional switches and meme-slavery that Matt Smith suffered under. But by God, it was as if Moffat was deliberately trying to make me hate the show. I effectively gave up with the Skaro two parter with Davros and Missy, which made no earthly sense and yet-again found a way to shrink the universe with the Doctor having being involved with every-important-thing-ever. I returned briefly for a couple of odd episodes to test the waters, but couldn't make my way through them, and only watched one full episode after that - the final Christmas special. Which was terrible.

So I was scared going in to the new season. Chibnall had clearly gained confidence with Broadchurch, but would he be pressured by the BBC into presenting more of the empty shine of Moffat's era, the misguided fan-service and plots designed merely to generate tumblr-memes? It was a damned odd thing - despite Moffat having finally broken into America during his run, the increasing emptiness of Doctor Who was threatening to irredemably break the show itself. Perhaps the BBC would just ask for more of the same? So it was with some nervousness that I sat down Sunday night to watch it.

Phew. Real characters.

Yes! Chibnall's season debut opens with people with a down-to-earth problem speaking in a normal, down-to-earth fashion! And sure, weird things soon start happening but at no point did I stop feeling that these were real people. (Although admittedly that was mildly threatened with the old issue of Doctor Who characters accepting ridiculous amounts of confusing alien danger far too readily. But that's par for the course with Doctor Who.) My first real test of whether a show had believable characters is if I find myself wondering what they did before, how they'd react in other situations, what they might be talking about between adventures to each other. That never happened with Moffat. I never bought either Amy or Clara as a human being. So yes, I liked the characters, I felt concern for them. Score one for Chibnall.

Then there was the way the effects and cinematography spectacle were more grounded in a sense of our daily reality, how the special effects were less grandiose but more realistic. The shot from the juddering train of the flashes in the sky. The slightly dream-like encounter with the projections in the wood. It felt less cartoony, again more down-to-earth. Simple shots like people getting off the train and disappearing into the night.

Then there were the brief moments that made us feel for the human victims. Words spoken over a body, a phone call taken before a death. Sometimes a little on the nose, yes, but infinitely preferable to humanity being reduced to mere spectators and buffoons designed to make the Doctor look teh-awesome.

The plot itself was no great-shakes, though good-enough for a character introduction piece. There was some good humour, some spooky bits, a sense of wonder. That was enough for me. The important thing was that we had characters I could believe in again and an atmosphere that shared those uncanny moments of super-realism that Russell T Davies hit now and again - especially with Eccleston's 'The Second Coming'. And it was set in Sheffield. Bonus.

As for Jodi Whitaker - well, she was pretty darn good. I bought her as the Doctor. Science fiction storytelling has done the male-to-female before in Moorcock, LeGuin and Moore so I was perfectly fine with the show expanding its story-telling horizons by making this change. Hell, Virginia Woolf's wonderful 1930's time-hopping gender-change novel Orlando revolves around it, and all the critics and readers loved that back then. I don't think she's one of the great Doctors yet, but I can see that happening.

In all it restored my faith in the series. I can now happily watch Doctor Who again without wanting to throw a teapot at the TV screen. Phew, thanks Chibnall.

Four out of Five

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 18:03 
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NervousPete wrote:
Science fiction storytelling has done the male-to-female before in Moorcock, LeGuin and Moore so I was perfectly fine with the show expanding its story-telling horizons by making this change.

Giphy "kara thrace":
https://media0.giphy.com/media/qSimeHx6z0N8s/giphy-loop.mp4

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 18:03 
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:facepalm:

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 22:51 
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Good review Pete.

I gave up on Dr who not long after Matt Smith took it on.
Just finished watching the new one and thoroughly enjoyed it! Way better than when I left it.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 0:15 
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I think everyone is being fucking harsh on Moffat. At the worst his episodes were meh. At their best they were spectacular. (Heaven Sent for example) Compared to RTDs efforts (see Fear Her, the nadir of nuWho) he was brill.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 0:18 
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Pundabaya wrote:
I think everyone is being fucking harsh on Moffat. At the worst his episodes were meh. At their best they were spectacular. (Heaven Sent for example) Compared to RTDs efforts (see Fear Her, the nadir of nuWho) he was brill.

When you say everyone you mean hardcore nerds. Most people agree with you I think. The worst thing you can level at him is that he made things overly complicated. And the 50th anniversary was brilliant.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 0:21 
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Yeah, well I'm wankered tonight. I have an excuse for sweeping generalisations.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:55 
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Aw, Pete, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on much of this, other than how annoying Amy becomes, and suggest you rewatch the Capaldi years. When I think of my favourite episodes, most come from them, and not just because of the benefit of closeness in time.

Off the top of my head:
'Listen' - what happens when the Doc gets bored?
'Zygon Invasion/Inversion' - takes one of the silliest monsters and spins a great yarn about war
'Heaven Sent' - One of the creepeist and bleakest episodes ever made, and it mostly consists of the Doc and a man in a sheet.
Most of series 10. Bill and Nardole are the most enjoyable Tardis team since Doctor and Donna.
And the Christmas special only really makes sense if you've watched the brilliant, claustrophobic, and frankly depressing 'World Enough and Time' and 'The Doctor Falls'. Rewatched all three recently, and once you remind yourself of how bad the situation is, his behaviour in the Christmas special is utterly understandable but is more of an epilogue than a full story in its own right (although the interplay with Bradley's 1 is a joy).

I agree that the Moffatt era does rely on the viewer having paid attention or at least watched the whole series, and as we move to on-demand video that's becoming the norm, and can lock casual viewers out as a result, but taken as a whole I don't think 12's term was a let down.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:21 
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Pundabaya wrote:
(see Fear Her, the nadir of nuWho) .


Hey, it has a rather good joke about parking the Tardis.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:54 
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The last season I watched of this is the Ecclestone one. Maybe I should catch up. I was so disappointed when Ecclestone left I couldn't be bothered after that.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 14:58 
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Fair enough matey. Maybe one day I'll give it another try, and maybe the last Capaldi season which I missed was a significant improvement. By the way, there are two new Honest Trailers, one for classic and one for nu-Who. They're fairly amusing.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 16:35 
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Pre-ordered my 13 4.5" figure last night!

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:49 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Pundabaya wrote:
I think everyone is being fucking harsh on Moffat. At the worst his episodes were meh. At their best they were spectacular. (Heaven Sent for example) Compared to RTDs efforts (see Fear Her, the nadir of nuWho) he was brill.

When you say everyone you mean hardcore nerds. Most people agree with you I think. The worst thing you can level at him is that he made things overly complicated. And the 50th anniversary was brilliant.


Moffat had his chance with me and he blew it after 3 or 4 episodes. I wasn't prepared to keep watching in the hope that I too wouldn't be tempted to throw things at the TV. I just got annoyed with it very quickly. I dipped in at the beginning of each new season, and found that it wasn't any better and abandoned it again.

I'll give it a try again now and I really hope it's got a new lease of life.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:14 
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Episode 2 passed the time but I don't feel a strong urge to revisit it except to enjoy the visuals in HD (I had to switch to plain old standard def as my reception was a bit wonky that night). The plot was pretty obvious and but the suffocation curtains were suitably scary. I enjoyed the interplay between the main cast, and the Doc's sense of failure and frustration at the end felt right. Indeed, I was half-expecting the Tardis not to reappear at all, and the on-screen glee was shared with me at home.

The new Tardis and opening titles will grow on me, I'm sure. Love the revised theme tunes but perhaps would soften the percussion as it sounds too dominating and overpowers the other-worldliness of the main tune.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:55 
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I saw a advert for the new show at a bus stop today that made me smile.

"Dr Who

It's about time."

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:28 
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I really like Jodie and the gang and the episode's premise was interesting, but the ending felt rushed.

My worry is that none of Chibnall's previous episodes have been all that great and now he's in charge. Say what you like about Moffat but he knew how to make the show hang together.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:41 
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My impression was it was very bitty, and didn't feel overly cohesive.

And that you could always see what was coming the moment a new thing was introduced.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 14:48 
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Zardoz wrote:
I saw a advert for the new show at a bus stop today that made me smile.

"Dr Who

It's about time."


I liked that too. Though my mind did initially flit to that 4thdimension sock puppet we had here.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 14:50 
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Mr Dave wrote:
My impression was it was very bitty, and didn't feel overly cohesive.



Timmy Mallet would be rolling in his grave with this mauling of a song. If he was dead.

Is he dead?


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 15:14 
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Mr Dave wrote:
My impression was it was very bitty, and didn't feel overly cohesive.

You're not supposed to tell us, we should be able to guess by the voice you put on.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 15:20 
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Findus Fop wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
My impression was it was very bitty, and didn't feel overly cohesive.



Timmy Mallet would be rolling in his grave with this mauling of a song. If he was dead.

Is he dead?


If he is then he's probably breaking some kind of record by cycling 150-odd km this month while dead:

https://www.strava.com/athletes/8925023


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 15:47 
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He dresses like Kov.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 21:13 
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Zardoz wrote:
He dresses like Kov.


Harsh

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 13:08 
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I like the new TARDIS....

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 13:15 
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I like the new theme, logos, style, Doctor and companions. I just haven't been sold on the stories so far. Or the execution of them, at any rate.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 13:18 
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Don't forget that it's mostly a kids show, they won't care about recycled ideas as much because it'll all be new to them.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 13:27 
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markg wrote:
Don't forget that it's mostly a kids show, they won't care about recycled ideas as much because it'll all be new to them.

It's more a family show, so it should appeal to kids and adults alike. It's not Peppa Pig. ;)

But broadly I agree about recycled ideas. Once a show has been going 55 years it's impossible to come up with entirely new ones anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 15:07 
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The second episode seemed like too many ideas chucked in at once for the length of the episode. Still enjoyed it, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 15:13 
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The 2nd episode was alright, I felt like it was more of a kids show than a full on family show though) There were just too many silly/obvious things (why did the sniper bots have such rubbish aim for example? Why was the Doctor so adamant she'd let them down?). It just felt with a few more minor tweaks it could have been a high quality family sci fi fun, instead it was the level of something like Lab Rats (which my daughter watches on Disney channel) which I really don't like.

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 18:33 
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Lonewolves wrote:
But broadly I agree about recycled ideas. Once a show has been going 55 years it's impossible to come up with entirely new ones anyway.

How d'you think the Doctor must feel after more than a millennium on the job? He/she must constantly be thinking, "Gah, not this hackneyed old invasion strategy again!"


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 21:01 
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She reminds me of Victoria Wood. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 23:49 
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Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 26630
Location: Kidbrooke
Goddess Jasmine wrote:
She reminds me of Victoria Wood. :)


:this:

Her and Jane Horrocks.

I love her.

The main characters are all good fun. I rewatched the first episode and it was really good. Don’t think I would rewatch the second one as readily. Jodie is brilliant though.

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