Be Excellent To Each Other

It also seems a waste of John Simm's talents, any old hack could play bonkers, manic Master...something that the character has never been in all his history.

I hope that if Moffat uses The Master at all (which I hope he will) he'll make him more sensible again. Moffat seems to be a fan of the Peter Davison era which is a favourite of mine as well so here's hoping..

I enjoyed it... the MST3K mantra is your friend.

I do feel sad whenever I see John Simm as the Master... he'd make a freaking awesome Doctor.

I really enjoyed the first part but I am concerned that the second part will just be RTD tying off the multiple loose ends before rushing to a CGI spectacular ending.

I'm still gutted Patterson Joseph didn't get the job.

The Gruffalo has been the best thing on tv this Christmas.

It's occured to me that none of the Christmas specials are any good, aside from maybe the first one. They've all been pretty formulaic except this one which was slow and meandring. I just hope it's not a case of 1. slow episode 2. CGI bollocks episode.






It'd be good if they did it like the 70s master, yeah. But surely not the pantomime 80s master? Muhahahahaah! he's behind you! oh no he isn't! etc. Be handy for the christmas specials, though. I reckon Simm is great/would be great if he wasn't quite so over the top. Derek Jacobi would have been utterly awesome, though.



Hell yes.



It was pretty much the only thing on for my family, other than Who and the Snowman which my kids haven't seen.

We also managed to watch the third Pirates of the Carribean without watching the other two about a week before it was on the fecking telly.

Watched the Gruffalo last night, best thing on telly all Christmas (so far)...although 'The Pixar Story' this morning on BBC2 was excellent.

I don't really get all the Who universe, and seeing The Master killed then not killed and dead but then not dead is just confusing, so I spent a while reading up about him on Wikipedia.

Now I get it, and he's pretty cool.

The writing in this episode really did jar though. Pulled me out of enjoying the story for the first 15 minutes until stuff started happening.

I right lapped it up. Of course it had slices of silly, but then it's Doctor Who FFS, and it's always had silly monsters and stuff in the last however many decades.

I dunno, I just feel that so many people approach this way too seriously, and with their cynicism all stored up ready to come out, and their "THIS WAS SHIT!" comments pretty much pre-written in their minds.

That said, I'm no fan of RTD, and overall I do think he's penned some weak episodes, so I'm quite happy he's going.

Did the bairn enjoy it as much as you?

There was a good show on just now about the Dr Who Target novels, if you remember those it's worth a listen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... olice_Box/

I enjoyed it, but the appearance of the Time Lords makes me wonder if the next episode isn't just going to degenerate into an unlocking of the Time War and the bloody Daleks turning up again. I hope not and it takes a different direction.

Ooo, good find, I'll give that a listen.

The Doctor Vs Daleks Vs Timelords Vs Cybermen Vs Sontarans Vs The Master (guest starring Wolverine and Spider Man)

FTFY

Needs more Batman.

Also as regards the Master, I accept Roger Delgado was the definitive Master but I still quite like the Anthony Ainley version a bit. He came of age in the final McCoy who I hear. The only time he was allowed to play the character properly.

But obviously Eric Roberts must be the best.

On a sort of Who-related note, anyone checked this charming little clip?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/featu ... ure_091211

Famous story of some fans visiting the set of the Davison story "Planet of Fire. In one scene Ainley gives a subdued and menacing performance. Director shouts cut and then proceeds to "direct" Ainley into doing a totally OTT camp performance.

Delgado never had to suffer that because he was the only actor ever considered for the role and "created it" himself. There's a wonderful piece of studio footage from the Claws of Axos where you see him rehearsing a scene in a mirror before the scene starts. He's all smiles and then suddenly fixes that famous stare in the mirror. Terrifying.

In the final Doctor Who story, Survival, Ainley gives the performance you expect he'd wanted to do all along. Menacing and on the edge. Throughout the 80's you get glimpses of how he wanted to play it from time to time but this is the real deal:

For me, this is The Master.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nPSUOab2dI


I really must get around to buying this ASAP, it's nostalgiatastic.


Awesome! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38UWzkVC ... re=related

Ainley is much more like Delgado in the Survival clip. I want the master to be like that. It makes sense. Rather than the manic incoherent fool we have to suffer now.

Ah, sod Doctor Who - I wish they'd "re-imagine" Blake's 7!



I hope they dump Gan though. And Blake. And call it Avon's Merciless Band of Machiavellian Ne'er-do-wells. And have better special effects than a fish tank, and let's not even go down the travesty that was "the invasion from another galaxy". Worst special effects ever.

I want Avon et al to ruin another Christmas!

Has to be said, Chinny's Xbox avatar bears more than a passing resemblance to An Master.

Probably the only Blakes 7 reimagining we'll get :-(

Part 1



Part 2

I watched Survivor [EDIT: This should have read 'Survival' but I was a bit drunk when typing this last night] a couple of years ago, I was quite impressed. True, it had a 'flavour of the month' Hale & Pace cameo, but it worked a damn site better than the wretched Paul O'Grady in the Davros-messing-with-planets bit. And I really liked the ramping up of tension, mystery and council-house mini-apocalypse that was threatening only a certain few people but people you'd come to care about quite a bit in the course of the show.

Aside from that, I'd sort of fuzzy memories of enjoying some Who when I was a kid. Mainly the one with the vampire girls rising out of the misty sea to eat Russian and English commados after their parents had warned 'em not to go bathing, a terrifying ghostly Victorian house with Ace being freaked out as some maid by things my brain can't quite wrap around, and that bit with the Candyman gunking people.

As an ignorant viewer, 80's Who strikes me as a war between two camps - a bunch of new folk desperate to make it creepy and awesome, and the bean counters and those who didn't want to work on the show but damned to it, wasting their time by pantomining themselves through the run. From what you say Chinny, I feel quite annoyed that Ainsley wanted to do a top frightening performance but was instead forced to do Chuckle Brothers.

Oddly, it's an offshoot of the same thing that makes me want to punch Outpost Gallifrey (or whatever they're called now) posters in the face when they argue that Kate O'Mara should be brought back as the Rani. They don't realise that nostalgia of the 80's shouldn't be about the original cast, but about the principles certain of the crew tried to hold to. O'Mara is part of the god-awful panto. If you were to go the Rani route again it'd have to be someone like the wonderful Susanna Harker or Tilda Swinton to work.

I've only seen one Davison adventure, by the way. 'The Five Doctors'. I liked it quite a bit, but I've seen no others by him. Shame, because he made a big impression on me when I watched it on VHS at a tender age.

I loved the Survivors reimagining. It beat Doctor Who and Torchwood into a cocked hat. As they say. You may be pleased to know it's due back on in January.

Some of the Davison episodes are poor, such as Warriors from the Deep (though that was largely due to the terrible murka Special effect) but on the whole it feels a bit more of an intellectual version of the series. Especially the intro episode Castrovalva which is quite odd.

There's quite a few episodes that are great in principle but are let down a bit by the poor acting. Snakedance is one such episode.

Terminus is one of my favourites along with Four to Doomsday. Black Orchid was very good, short and very different. It's well worth giving the Davison era a look.

I don't know much about the episodes after Davison as that's where I stop watching.

Cool, I'd like to check out those recommended options.

By the way, 'fraid I meant 'Survival' as in the McCoy adventure and not 'Survivors'. Though I did see both versions of the latter and was very impressed. You may have been wondering at what point Hale & Pace turned up from my mistyped post, though.

is there a replay of the christmas episode ( i ahve bbc three/four these days)

There's actually a few good stories throughout the 80s, but there's just something crappy about them that gets progressively worse. Even Colin Baker's first season has some really good stories. Most of Tom Baker's last season is worth a look and Peter Davison's Caves of Androzani is pretty fantastic - as good as any 60s or 70s Who.

The 'vampire girls' one - The Curse of Fenric - is really good if you can get past the something crappiness. The pit of despair is Colin Baker's second season and Silvester McCoy's first. It really does look like they were actually trying to make it shit at that point. Stuff like Paradise Towers (which I remembered as being great when it was first on) is the best example of a great idea gone horribly wrong. There's something good about it in there somewhere.

80's Who worth watching:

The Visitation - (great historical setting)
Earthshock - (no happy ending, no waving sonic screwdriver to reverse time)
Five Doctors - (It has FIVE Doctors)
Resurrection of the Daleks - (all star cast)
Caves Of Androzani - (all time classic)
Vengeance On Varos - (clever idea)
Mark Of The Rani - (great location work)
The Two Doctors - (Just for Pat Troughton and Peri in a skimpy top).
Remembrance Of the Daleks - (It's a proper old school Dalek story with cool chases and big explosions)
Curse Of Fenric (Special Edition) - (Nicholas Parsons proves he's actually quite a good actor. The SE version addresses the forced timing edits)
Ghostlight - (Sinister, dark, very clever)
Survival - (Ainley is great, the terror in the suburbs setting is far more effective than anything the new series has done).


Silver Nemesis is also worth watching for shits and giggles. Its not the greatest story (and has exactly the same plot as Remembrance of The Daleks) but is great fun if you can visit Arundel Park as you can wander around pretending to be the Doctor.

There's an awful lot of politics involved as well. In fact people forget that Tom Bakers era got very silly at times due to the show being criticised about the violence levels and they also ran out of money as well. During Bakers era, due to inflation, they had 40% less money in 1979 than they had in 1977! Fanboys ignore shit like Nightmare on Eden preferring to stick the knife into the 80's era.

80's Who suffered the same way. There was an awful lot of politics going on and its ironic that the show was cancelled just as it looked as if they now had the writers and directors who could carry it off.

One of the tragedies of 80's who that was Graeme Harper was twice booked to direct stories that he never got to work on. The first was in the cancelled '86 season, the second was Battlefield where a scheduling conflict meant that he had to pull out to direct an episode of Boon. Shame because Battlefields direction was awful and it actually spoils a decent story.

Found this a bit dull.



Largely agree with that but the Five Doctors episode doesn't really feature five doctors properly. Tom Baker is trapped in a time vortex or something. It scared me as a kid but it seemed a bit weak on a rewatch.



Has its moments and the regeneration scene is good but I hate Peri.



As I recall there's certainly a lot going on in that episode. It doesn't necessarily make sense but there's a lot of visual stuff happening and can be entertaining for that.

All of PD's first season is well worth watching but quality decreases from there onward. The third being particularly weak.

The sheer quantity of Tom Baker episodes means that some of them are going to be terrible.

One TB story I found particularly odd was The Invasion of Time. It was like two stories in one. The main story up to the end of episode 4 and then two episode of complete (if oddly enjoyable) nonsense tacked on the end.

The story of silver nemesis is beyond laughable, sadly. It's just utterly ridiculous. Nazis, some irritating duffer from medieval times, her snivelling yes-man and the cyberman all converge in one horrible contrived mess.

One of my friends was, apparently one of the cybermen though. (He also played a mans arse in one of the new episodes. I think it was the idiots lantern.)

Like I say, if you go to Arundel Park it takes on a whole new life. Didn't care for it much before but walking around there it feels like you are part of the story. Just like the Doctor you arrive there and eventually end up at the big folly and then you can dick around next to it pretending to be Cybermen. A great (and free) day out.

I have a signed photo of Paul Darrow in costume. It takes pride of place on my "wall of fame".

For the non fans, the irony here is that the production team couldn't get permission to use Windsor Castle or the park so went to Arundel instead.

I bought the Silver Nemesis from Scope in Huddersfield yesterday for £1. On VHS obviously.

So. Improvement on the previous episode. Still didn't really make much sense but had a few nice emotional moments. The trailer for new series looked pretty good to me. As does Amy Pond.

The new trailer if you haven't seen it - there are obviously (small) spoilers about characters and monsters involved.

Amy Pond.

I enjoyed that much more than I thought I would having been put off by Magic Flying Doctor and the reset switch being pushed the last time The Master was around.



Overall though I am satisfied - the gun weilding 12 year old Matt Smith Dr from the trailer concerns me somewhat but I shall trust in Moffat.

Amy Pond.

You shouldn't be allowed to post that without a piccy :



or two

Amy Pond

You're all wrong.

Karen Gillan

I enjoyed the final episode last night but FFS, they did rather drag out the ending and I just wanted him to die and get on with it.

Anyway, not watched the trailer for the new series yet, but I took an instant dislike to the new guy ages ago, plus the new bird looks very boring and plain to me. Still, RTD is gone and that's a cause for celebration, and I will be tuning in for whenever it starts (I presume May or something?)