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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:07 
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I looked into leasing when I bought the i30-N and quickly realised it made no sense (in fact, I believe some BEEX-ers told me it was a stupid idea when I mentioned it here).

Leasing appears to be for people who can't afford to buy a car (but can manage a deposit), you pay out a shitload of money in what are effectively rental charges, and at the end of it you don't have a car - plus it's never even your car as you have to give it back at the end of the lease agreement.

I crunched the numbers on the i30-N and the overall costs over three years (factoring in depreciation) worked out the same, except that with buying it I had a car at the end of three years.

Sometimes there are super-cheap deals to be had on leasing, but they tend to be on less desirable cars or where manufacturers have end of line models or stock surpluses they want to get rid of, which seems unlikely in the current market.

Here were my sums from the time (EDIT - my figures on depreciation through owning were pessimistic too):

To buy the car costs £28K, and at the end of four years I have a car that's worth, let's say £10K. I can put £12K cash in, plus £10K trade in, so I only need to finance £6K and I can borrow money off the bank at 3.3% APR. (And TBH, with a bit of a stretch I could put the full £18K cash in so no finance at all.)

To lease the car costs £21K in total over four years, and at the end of it I have no car.

Am I not £3K worse off by leasing? Sorry if I'm being dense here but I thought leasing was supposed to offset the cost of depreciation, which doesn't seem to be happening here, and either way I get a new car at the start of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:41 
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At this point the only sensible choice is keep what you've got or go EV, internal combustion including hybrid is a dead end (for a daily driven road car) and a waste of new money.

I've suggested to Helen she weigh up how likely she is to keep her Kodiaq until it's literally unmaintainable and if she's not, switch to EV while she's got a guaranteed final value on the finance because within 5 years second hand values are going to nosedive.

Not just because 2030 is EV-only year but increasing emissions penalties - Birmingham is introducing an emissions zone any day now; her office is right on the border of it and it's currently "Euro 6 and EV exempt" but how long before that's "EV exempt"? How long before all the other metropolitan areas follow suit? How long before Smart motorways start sending you pro-rata bills for polluting them? How long before fossil forecourts disappear or at least start switching pumps to chargers?


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:59 
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Fitness Nut...

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I guess having a had a company car for 15+ years I don't see the point of owning a car. Plus if I take finance out, I still don't own a car till it is paid off.

PCP would mean I had to find £10k at the end of 4 years. I don't want to buy a 4 year old car so I would hand it back. Maths wise it is cheaper to lease for the same end result...

@hearthly, it would be pointless for you to lease as you change your car every 6 months, and a lease would tie you in for a few years...

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:00 
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BikNorton wrote:
At this point the only sensible choice is keep what you've got or go EV, internal combustion including hybrid is a dead end (for a daily driven road car) and a waste of new money.

I've suggested to Helen she weigh up how likely she is to keep her Kodiaq until it's literally unmaintainable and if she's not, switch to EV while she's got a guaranteed final value on the finance because within 5 years second hand values are going to nosedive.

Not just because 2030 is EV-only year but increasing emissions penalties - Birmingham is introducing an emissions zone any day now; her office is right on the border of it and it's currently "Euro 6 and EV exempt" but how long before that's "EV exempt"? How long before all the other metropolitan areas follow suit? How long before Smart motorways start sending you pro-rata bills for polluting them? How long before fossil forecourts disappear or at least start switching pumps to chargers?


That is my thinking.. I am not ready to go full EV, just not the infrastructure yet. plus If I lease in 3 years their might be.. I don't need a big diesel car

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:12 
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Get a home charger and there's plenty of infrastructure - the new EVs can go a (couple of) hundred miles between charges and if you're going that far from home you'll be on a motorway where you can put half an hour on at services without losing much time.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:24 
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BikNorton wrote:
Get a home charger and there's plenty of infrastructure - the new EVs can go a (couple of) hundred miles between charges and if you're going that far from home you'll be on a motorway where you can put half an hour on at services without losing much time.


It is an option... Although I was in Yorkshire last week... it would have been tricky..

Plus most of my journeys are 15 miles or under, so a hybrid will work

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 13:08 
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I'm pretty sure they have electricity in Yorkshire.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 13:43 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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Booo, MOT fail due to a front coil spring not being springy. Stupid cars costing me stupid money.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 13:44 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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What's wrong with your current car?


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 14:15 
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Squirt wrote:
Booo, MOT fail due to a front coil spring not being springy. Stupid cars costing me stupid money.

Shouldn't be too much though? Have they said to replace the front pair though?

Get it lowered if they're being replaced :metul:

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 16:07 
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Trooper wrote:
What's wrong with your current car?


Nothing, I want to replace it in the next 12 months anyway as it will need MOT and the warranty runs out.

But if I can upgrade early, and save money leasing, it is a possibility.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 16:34 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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Zardoz wrote:
Get it lowered if they're being replaced :metul:


But if i get it lowered the blue underbody LEDs I've got fitted won't show as much!


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 16:51 
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KovacsC wrote:
Trooper wrote:
What's wrong with your current car?


Nothing, I want to replace it in the next 12 months anyway as it will need MOT and the warranty runs out.

But if I can upgrade early, and save money leasing, it is a possibility.


So really dumb question , an MOT for a car thats been looked after should be a technicality (especially if its not an old car) , and costs about £50
What warranty claims have you made on your car that you are going to worry about not having a warranty for ?

I've been driving for ..... 30+ years and I've never had a new car so have no idea what a manufacturers warranty would do , as long as you have an MOT / Road Tax / Insurance / and probably some type of roadside assistance (AA / RAC etc) what else do you need ?


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 16:56 
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I guess, it is just me. I get a car allowance through work, so in essence they pay for the car. We used to have rules it has to be under 3 years old, but I am not sure now.

I have not made any warranty claims, but I used to do a lot of miles 15/20k a year, last year I did 5..

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 17:51 
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gooby pls

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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Squirt wrote:
Booo, MOT fail due to a front coil spring not being springy. Stupid cars costing me stupid money.

Are you me?

The Celica failed an MOT today because of a broken spring on the offside front. Irony is that I knew about it and am waiting for my specialist to have some parts delivered so I can get it fixed, but I didn't realise it was an MOT fail so I took it for an MOT at my local garage instead.

So I spent £50 today on an MOT that was always guaranteed to fail, and in the next couple of weeks when the parts come in I'm going to have to get it MOT'd again but this time for another £50 or whatever it'll cost along with the actual spring repair.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 17:55 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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Oops! No chance of squeezing it in during the retest period?

They said it might have been bust for a while, but I hadn't noticed any particular difference in handling. Maybe I'm just not in tune with my car's soul.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 18:11 
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Might be cheaper to break the opposite sides spring.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 20:14 
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No free retest at that mot station? Boo.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 20:17 
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Prices of nearly new interesting cars are stupidly high at the moment.
I’m sure a Boxster 981 or 718 are at least £10k more than they would have been for a similar age car before the pandemic.

You can spend £40k on a new Mini convertible which is just madness.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 21:23 
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BikNorton wrote:
No free retest at that mot station? Boo.

Unlikely, the limit is 10 working days and I think suspension components aren’t on the list of things that qualify for a free retest.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 22:03 
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Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Prices of nearly new interesting cars are stupidly high at the moment.
I’m sure a Boxster 981 or 718 are at least £10k more than they would have been for a similar age car before the pandemic.

You can spend £40k on a new Mini convertible which is just madness.


Delivery dates on new cars are much longer due, principally to the following two reasons. Car manufacturers shut down last year due to the pandemic. Even bog standard cars have 50+ microprocessors, the manufacturers of those have focused elsewhere (speculate crypto mining), the car manufacturers have become low priority, and they can’t get the chips to build their cars to the volumes they’d like.
Consequently used car prices have climbed, across the board as buyers don’t want to wait 5+ months for a new car.
Sports cars are something else though, I think the people who could afford them, having seen their income static, but expenditure drop, are buying “the car they promised themselves” as going for a drive is a YOLO thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 22:24 
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£50 for an MOT? They're £27 where I'm taking the Puma tomorrow.

It has best not catch the coil spring flu!

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 22:48 
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DBSnappa wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Prices of nearly new interesting cars are stupidly high at the moment.
I’m sure a Boxster 981 or 718 are at least £10k more than they would have been for a similar age car before the pandemic.

You can spend £40k on a new Mini convertible which is just madness.


Delivery dates on new cars are much longer due, principally to the following two reasons. Car manufacturers shut down last year due to the pandemic. Even bog standard cars have 50+ microprocessors, the manufacturers of those have focused elsewhere (speculate crypto mining), the car manufacturers have become low priority, and they can’t get the chips to build their cars to the volumes they’d like.
Consequently used car prices have climbed, across the board as buyers don’t want to wait 5+ months for a new car.
Sports cars are something else though, I think the people who could afford them, having seen their income static, but expenditure drop, are buying “the car they promised themselves” as going for a drive is a YOLO thing.

It's also largely due to people not turning in their lease cars at three years old. It is nuts though. We bought a Jeep from a garage maybe 18 months ago and sold it last month to WBAC and hardly lost anything (although I still don't understand the price they gave us as there were plenty similar from dealers on Autotrader for pretty similar money).


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:57 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Grim... wrote:
£50 for an MOT? They're £27 where I'm taking the Puma tomorrow.

It has best not catch the coil spring flu!


MINI was in for an MOT yesterday, everyone (including the tester) was shocked when it passed.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:58 
SupaMod
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How much did it cost?

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 16:17 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Grim... wrote:
How much did it cost?


£47 including wiper blades


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 17:41 
SupaMod
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Grim... wrote:
£50 for an MOT? They're £27 where I'm taking the Puma tomorrow.

It has best not catch the coil spring flu!

Well fuck me if the offside spring wasn't snapped.

Sadly, that was among the least of its problems.

Attachment:
20210716_170723.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 18:38 
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gooby pls

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Ouch.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 18:48 
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I think that might be dead.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 19:19 
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Finally got our van:

Attachment:
van.jpg


Absolutely made up with it. Spent the last couple of days doing the outside bits with a bit of help from Z.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 19:54 
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Hibernating Druid

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You setting off anywhere in it tonight? Perfect weekend for first adventure.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 20:27 
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Gogmagog

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Zardoz wrote:
You setting off anywhere in it tonight? Perfect weekend for first adventure.


Seconded. It looks brilliant

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 23:02 
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Yeah we're off to Bentham for a night just to try it out and work out what stuff we're going to need. Might be a bit too hot if anything! I don't think we'll be using the diesel heater anyway. If I'm being honest I could quite happily stay at home and do more van fettling.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 23:23 
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It looks absolutely super. I hope you have many happy adventurings. What does it look like inside?

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:15 
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That looks really nice. The black steel wheels look far better than giant chrome rubbish that a lot of vans get.

Any interior shots?


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:10 
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Not taken many of the inside, just when I picked it up:
Attachment:
van-inside.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:08 
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That's awesome that Mark and exactly the sort of van I'd like. Good on you!


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:13 
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markg wrote:
Finally got our van:

Attachment:
van.jpg


Absolutely made up with it. Spent the last couple of days doing the outside bits with a bit of help from Z.

It looks fabulous. I'd love to hire one for a while and travel. Can't wait to hear about your adventures. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 13:02 
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The van looks great..

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 13:03 
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Grim... wrote:
Grim... wrote:
£50 for an MOT? They're £27 where I'm taking the Puma tomorrow.

It has best not catch the coil spring flu!

Well fuck me if the offside spring wasn't snapped.

Sadly, that was among the least of its problems.

Attachment:
20210716_170723.jpg


fixing or writing off?

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 15:36 
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@KovacsC found your next car!


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 16:26 
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Where would I put the bike rack.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 16:44 
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I may have ordered a car. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 17:20 
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Hearthly wrote:
I looked into leasing when I bought the i30-N and quickly realised it made no sense (in fact, I believe some BEEX-ers told me it was a stupid idea when I mentioned it here).

Leasing appears to be for people who can't afford to buy a car (but can manage a deposit), you pay out a shitload of money in what are effectively rental charges, and at the end of it you don't have a car - plus it's never even your car as you have to give it back at the end of the lease agreement.

I crunched the numbers on the i30-N and the overall costs over three years (factoring in depreciation) worked out the same, except that with buying it I had a car at the end of three years.

Sometimes there are super-cheap deals to be had on leasing, but they tend to be on less desirable cars or where manufacturers have end of line models or stock surpluses they want to get rid of, which seems unlikely in the current market.

Here were my sums from the time (EDIT - my figures on depreciation through owning were pessimistic too):

To buy the car costs £28K, and at the end of four years I have a car that's worth, let's say £10K. I can put £12K cash in, plus £10K trade in, so I only need to finance £6K and I can borrow money off the bank at 3.3% APR. (And TBH, with a bit of a stretch I could put the full £18K cash in so no finance at all.)

To lease the car costs £21K in total over four years, and at the end of it I have no car.

Am I not £3K worse off by leasing? Sorry if I'm being dense here but I thought leasing was supposed to offset the cost of depreciation, which doesn't seem to be happening here, and either way I get a new car at the start of it.


I think leasing has moved on. I did not need to provide a deposit. Just 36 monthly payments.

So for me I am getting a 40k car for quite cheap rental.

I don’t have a 10k part ex so your figures don’t wok for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 17:26 
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Unpossible!

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Hope it pans out for you


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 17:28 
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DavPaz wrote:
Hope it pans out for you


Oh FFs. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 17:52 
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DavPaz wrote:
Hope it pans out for you

:D

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 19:24 
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markg wrote:
Not taken many of the inside, just when I picked it up:
Attachment:
van-inside.jpg

That’s absolutely brilliant. I bet you’ll have an amazing time out and about in it.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 0:04 
SupaMod
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Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 68534
Location: Your Mum
I'm a Merc wanker now!

And I've doubled down, because I'm a convertible wanker too!

Nothing gets the ladies wetter than a middle-aged fat man in a drop-top!

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Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:45 
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Decapodian

Joined: 15th Oct, 2010
Posts: 4432
Grim... wrote:
I'm a Merc wanker now!

And I've doubled down, because I'm a convertible wanker too!

Nothing gets the ladies wetter than a middle-aged fat man in a drop-top!


SL, CLK?


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