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Got any pics of your M3, Bik? Don't really see many of them about around here, and on my journey to Wrexham yesterday I was buzzed by a guy in an M3 that seemed to be going impossibly fast. Almost literally a "blink and you'll miss him" moment.

I went up to Motoscope in Northallerton today to pick up my romper suit, gloves, booties, harness and fire extinguisher. I already got a Sparco Pro Jet open face helmet a couple of weeks ago, and a spare set of wheels and tires

I am booked in for a half day (three 20 minute sessions) track day at Croft circuit on the 11th (I expect the weather will be like http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rFFsHFdBnto, and I am also now booked in for a sprint event at Barkston Heath airfield on the 2nd November. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sN54Q3eWjPw

Chain, or belt, though?

When mine had its belt done, service was just shy of £700.

The only thing you need for a track day is a helmet (which they usually will rent you for £5) and covered arms and legs. The romper suit is for MSA events only, because they are Fussy About Stickers.. But you know, in for a penny, in for a pound.

Big up to VW. I asked if they would be so kind as to fix my engine undertray when they were doing the fuel pump. I mentioned as it was a 100,000 miler it probably wasn't worth ordering a new part.

They've taped it together and hung it all back up and it looks dandy. It was quite annoying going over bumps and your underneath hitting them.

So kudus to them for fixing that for free.

The hard way, I said. As in 'clatter, bang, smash smash smash, £2000 please'.

So kudus to them for fixing that for free.

chinnyhill10 wrote:

So kudus to them for fixing that for free.

Can I pay with these?

MetalAngel wrote:

Chain, or belt, though?

When mine had its belt done, service was just shy of £700.

The hard way, I said. As in 'clatter, bang, smash smash smash, £2000 please'.

So, £500 total, they reckon, for all of the above. Ouch. Oooh. Oww.

You should never have to change a timing chain. I guess it might be worth doing if, say, you have the engine out anyway.
You should, however, check your oil every week. Every week.

MetalAngel wrote:

So, £500 total, they reckon, for all of the above. Ouch. Oooh. Oww.

So after 2 years, it's 500 quid to keep it running?

Fucking hell, frankly.

Grim... wrote:

You should never have to change a timing chain. I guess it might be worth doing if, say, you have the engine out anyway.
You should, however, check your oil every week. Every week.

This goes double if you own a seventh-generation Celica, or an RX-8

The brake discs are the biggest expense, but I've decided they need doing, now. Things wear out on cars, man.

The hard way, I said. As in 'clatter, bang, smash smash smash, £2000 please'.

MetalAngel wrote:

The brake discs are the biggest expense, but I've decided they need doing, now. Things wear out on cars, man.

But they can be down down at the local independent tyre and brake place easily. Ask them for a quote and then tell the dealer you are taking it down there. The dealer may match the price.

£180 for brake discs?

richardgaywood wrote:

£180 for brake discs?

Depends what type of discs. If I want performance level braking power for my Celica, I can easily expect to pay £220+ for a set of decent discs.

My non-BMW M5-spec (340mm, or something? Pretty huge) discs are being remarkably good at stopping 1.6 tonnes of hurtling 3-series, at only £100+VAT, plus £60 of pads. Dealer prices are not worth it.

Craster wrote:

The hard way, I said. As in 'clatter, bang, smash smash smash, £2000 please'.

I had a timing belt snap on my Astra (the 2l 8v Vauxhall engine from the mid-80s; Astra was a Mk2 GTE). Fitted a new belt and it started right up, covered another 10k miles before I sold it. I was dead chuffed!

To be honest all I really heard them say was "£2000 please".

Craster wrote:

To be honest all I really heard them say was "£2000 please".

8v or 16v engine in that? By and large a cambelt/chain break is guaranteed to bend all or most of the valve stems, meaning you're looking at a total rebuild. When my Astra stopped, I got a passer-by to turn the engine over whilst I looked into the oil filler cap; when I didn't see the camshaft turn my heart sank. I couldn't believe it when it started back up without damage. Mike my Really Good Mechanic Mate has seen "over a hundred" cambelt failures in his time, and my Astra was "number three" that survived unharmed.

2.0 16V. Smashed the pistons and the head to shit in the 3s it took me to pull over and kill the engine.

BikNorton wrote:

Indeed. Two generations of my family (grandfather, father) were braking engineers; most common car brake discs (GazChap is correct to say you can do exotic things) are nothing more than dumb slabs of moulded steel. They are not expensive to buy or difficult to fit.

Craster wrote:

To be honest all I really heard them say was "£2000 please".

My Corsa just sailed through its 2nd MOT with only a "Do the front brake disks at some point before next time" to its name.

So I'm vaguely interested in what my localish semi-indie Vauxhall garage will charge when I get it done at the service in a few months.

One ten-minute compression test would have saved me two days of work

Here's one for you mechanically-minded people. If I was concerned that one or more of my CV joints was on the way out, what would I be looking out for symptomatically? Are there any noises commonly associated with CV joint failure and wear?

Surely it's not normal for CV joints to do that with less than 35,000 miles on the clock?

Bugger. Sounds like that's happening to mine then, although it's not clunks so much as "groans".

Surely it's not normal for CV joints to do that with less than 35,000 miles on the clock?

GazChap wrote:

Surely it's not normal for CV joints to do that with less than 35,000 miles on the clock?

No. Is the boot in one piece?

Author:	AceAceBaby [ Fri Oct 03, 2008 16:48 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
They are really not expensive cars for what you get. I have learned a bit since getting mine, though. There are five revisions of the mark 2 (SW20), and generally people feel they got "properly good" at revision 3, which is January 94 onwards or so. These had better suspension as standard, more powerful engines (178 instead of 156hp) and some cosmetic changes. The very earliest ones (rev 1) had smaller brakes, smaller wheels, and are generally seen as a bit of work. Mine is a rev 2, so it's kind of in the middle of the range. However, the better cars cost more. £1000 should certainly snag a rev1 or (better if you can) a rev2. All the turbos in the UK are imported Japanese cars, and they seem to cost twice as much. Don't get a t-bar if you want to sprint it, I think they may be counted as convertibles and then you get headaches about rollover protection. I still really like the idea of a mark 1 (AW11) but at that kind of price they are almost all total sheds.

Author:	BikNorton [ Fri Oct 03, 2008 18:24 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
GazChap wrote: Got any pics of your M3, Bik? Don't really see many of them about around here, and on my journey to Wrexham yesterday I was buzzed by a guy in an M3 that seemed to be going impossibly fast. Almost literally a "blink and you'll miss him" moment. Whoops, missed this completely. No pictures at all, no. I should take some, if only to prove to people how much of a shitbox it actually is, when they think I'm bragging about having an M3 as if it's some pretty E46/59 that isn't falling to bits, or something. I got it back tonight, which is handy because the MOT expires on Monday and so does my use of the Octy - Charl needs it mid-afternoon all next week. It really couldn't have picked a better fortnight for exploding. I've only done a few miles in it, but jesus it's a relief to be out of the Octy with its van driver vantage point, laggy turbo, FWD understeer and sloppy suspension. The replaced bushes have quieted the rear end right down too, and the tracking that came with it has fixed the pulling left. Awesome. And no more ROARing at 80+! Hooray! AceAceBaby wrote: I went up to Motoscope in Northallerton today to pick up my romper suit, gloves, booties, harness and fire extinguisher. I already got a Sparco Pro Jet open face helmet a couple of weeks ago, and a spare set of wheels and tires I am booked in for a half day (three 20 minute sessions) track day at Croft circuit on the 11th (I expect the weather will be like http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rFFsHFdBnto, and I am also now booked in for a sprint event at Barkston Heath airfield on the 2nd November. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sN54Q3eWjPw Bwahahaha, really? Are they the rules? When I took my Civic Type-R to Oulton Park all I needed was a helmet and a black-on-yellow novice cross stuck to the arse (of the car). Course, I'd've been fucked in a fire, but I was driving my 3 month old £16k car without track insurance, so that'd've been best.

Author:	AceAceBaby [ Fri Oct 03, 2008 18:29 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
The only thing you need for a track day is a helmet (which they usually will rent you for £5) and covered arms and legs. The romper suit is for MSA events only, because they are Fussy About Stickers.. But you know, in for a penny, in for a pound.

Author:	metalangel [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 18:29 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Car went in for its two yearly/80,000k service. Faults I reported at the same time: -possible creaking, offside front suspension -water ingress, driver's door -faulty central locking, driver's door -worn gear shift base (the plastic base has had a groove worn in it by the metal spring intended to return it to the centre when you pop it out of gear) -boot lid light switch still broken from where it wasn't fixed in the last service -where's my fucking paint touch-up stick from the last service (two years ago) They have called to advise: -no problems found with the front suspension -yes, water ingress in the driver's door, causing the central locking fault -yes, the gear shift thing is worn -something wrong with the light switch, possibly wiring fault BUT ALSO! Rear brake discs fucked. I told them I was aware, as it had come up as an advisory in the last MOT. They said the brakes are only working at 50% of what they should. MOT guy said I knew how my car handled, and not to worry to much about it if it was driving fine until the brakes came due for replacement. Well, I've decided now is time for them to be replaced. So, £500 total, they reckon, for all of the above. Ouch. Oooh. Oww.

Author:	chinnyhill10 [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 18:50 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Big up to VW. I asked if they would be so kind as to fix my engine undertray when they were doing the fuel pump. I mentioned as it was a 100,000 miler it probably wasn't worth ordering a new part. They've taped it together and hung it all back up and it looks dandy. It was quite annoying going over bumps and your underneath hitting them. So kudus to them for fixing that for free.

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Gas Guzzling Money Pits https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1635	Page 7 of 613

Author:	BikNorton [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 18:53 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
That's nothing! Mine was going in for its MOT the other week, when the radiator went POP! £644 for the radiator, MOT, an indicator bulb and two wipers. With the big service coming round in way under 2k miles (the indicator has been on the last 2k mark for ages). And the Octy's MOT is due at the start of November, as is the cambelt and waterpump renewal. Still, petrol's down another 2p, with what should be more coming soon.

Author:	Cras [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 18:54 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Pfah. Car repair bills are nothing until the first time you learn the hard way that a timing chain is something that needs replacing.

Author:	metalangel [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 18:55 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Chain, or belt, though? When mine had its belt done, service was just shy of £700.

Author:	Cras [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 18:56 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
MetalAngel wrote: Chain, or belt, though? When mine had its belt done, service was just shy of £700. The hard way, I said. As in 'clatter, bang, smash smash smash, £2000 please'.

Author:	BikNorton [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 18:57 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
chinnyhill10 wrote: Big up to VW. I asked if they would be so kind as to fix my engine undertray when they were doing the fuel pump. I mentioned as it was a 100,000 miler it probably wasn't worth ordering a new part. They've taped it together and hung it all back up and it looks dandy. It was quite annoying going over bumps and your underneath hitting them. So kudus to them for fixing that for free. Cable ties are better for that. Non-OE parts (belt, tensioner and waterpump) were £75 last time I looked. Labour won't be cheap. A timing chain should not normally need replacing within the design lifetime of the engine, although one of mates needed it doing on his Nissan Almera - "only" £500. Craster wrote: The hard way, I said. As in 'clatter, bang, smash smash smash, £2000 please'. Argh. The chain tensioner obviously needed some love before then that hadn't been noticed (that's something else that'll need doing on mine before long, along with another grand or two's "maintainance").

Author:	Cras [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 18:58 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
chinnyhill10 wrote: So kudus to them for fixing that for free. Can I pay with these?

Author:	chinnyhill10 [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 19:01 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Craster wrote: chinnyhill10 wrote: So kudus to them for fixing that for free. Can I pay with these? You do know that's not a badger right?

Author:	Joans [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 19:07 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Craster wrote: MetalAngel wrote: Chain, or belt, though? When mine had its belt done, service was just shy of £700. The hard way, I said. As in 'clatter, bang, smash smash smash, £2000 please'. My first car was written off by this. I'd like to think I know better now.

Author:	GazChap [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 19:12 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
I thought that timing chains were basically fine for the life of the car, and that it was only timing belts that needed regular changes? Either way, chains last a lot longer than belts, I know that much.

Author:	metalangel [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 19:26 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Yup, hence why I asked. Mine was a belt. And I know a few people on the Parker's forum who only buy chain-driven cars just so they have one less thing to worry about breaking.

Author:	GazChap [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 19:33 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Even belts aren't a worry if you get a non-interference engine.

Author:	MaliA [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 19:37 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
MetalAngel wrote: So, £500 total, they reckon, for all of the above. Ouch. Oooh. Oww. So after 2 years, it's 500 quid to keep it running? Fucking hell, frankly.

Author:	Grim... [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 19:39 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
You should never have to change a timing chain. I guess it might be worth doing if, say, you have the engine out anyway. You should, however, check your oil every week. Every week.

Author:	GazChap [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 19:43 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Grim... wrote: You should never have to change a timing chain. I guess it might be worth doing if, say, you have the engine out anyway. You should, however, check your oil every week. Every week. This goes double if you own a seventh-generation Celica, or an RX-8

Author:	metalangel [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 19:55 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
MaliA wrote: MetalAngel wrote: So, £500 total, they reckon, for all of the above. Ouch. Oooh. Oww. So after 2 years, it's 500 quid to keep it running? Fucking hell, frankly. Well, the service is £250-odd. The brake discs are £187. And the other sundry things that need fixing will push it up to £500. The brake discs are the biggest expense, but I've decided they need doing, now. Things wear out on cars, man.

Author:	Grim... [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 19:59 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
GazChap wrote: Grim... wrote: You should never have to change a timing chain. I guess it might be worth doing if, say, you have the engine out anyway. You should, however, check your oil every week. Every week. This goes double if you own a seventh-generation Celica, or an RX-8 Or, of course, a Mazda 6 MPS. Cunting girly things.

Author:	metalangel [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 20:03 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
The other chap in the dealer-provided minibus that took me back home was telling the driver everything that was wrong with his 206 that he'd just dropped off, combined with a 'and it's only three years old!' Much as I would have enjoyed telling him that's what he gets for buying a 206, I didn't want my face punched in.

Author:	chinnyhill10 [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 20:39 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
MetalAngel wrote: The brake discs are the biggest expense, but I've decided they need doing, now. Things wear out on cars, man. But they can be down down at the local independent tyre and brake place easily. Ask them for a quote and then tell the dealer you are taking it down there. The dealer may match the price.

Author:	Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 20:40 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Craster wrote: The hard way, I said. As in 'clatter, bang, smash smash smash, £2000 please'. I had a timing belt snap on my Astra (the 2l 8v Vauxhall engine from the mid-80s; Astra was a Mk2 GTE). Fitted a new belt and it started right up, covered another 10k miles before I sold it. I was dead chuffed!

Author:	MaliA [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 20:48 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
chinnyhill10 wrote: MetalAngel wrote: The brake discs are the biggest expense, but I've decided they need doing, now. Things wear out on cars, man. But they can be down down at the local independent tyre and brake place easily. Ask them for a quote and then tell the dealer you are taking it down there. The dealer may match the price. This, brake discs for the 205 are fuck off cheap, and not 180 each, to begin with. I can't imagine that brake disc technology has progressed that much from a car that's almost as old as Shin, and uses discs of metal to stop it.

Author:	GazChap [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 20:52 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
richardgaywood wrote: £180 for brake discs? Depends what type of discs. If I want performance level braking power for my Celica, I can easily expect to pay £220+ for a set of decent discs.

Author:	BikNorton [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 21:01 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
My non-BMW M5-spec (340mm, or something? Pretty huge) discs are being remarkably good at stopping 1.6 tonnes of hurtling 3-series, at only £100+VAT, plus £60 of pads. Dealer prices are not worth it.

Author:	Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 21:05 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
BikNorton wrote: My non-BMW M5-spec (340mm, or something? Pretty huge) discs are being remarkably good at stopping 1.6 tonnes of hurtling 3-series, at only £100+VAT, plus £60 of pads. Dealer prices are not worth it. Indeed. Two generations of my family (grandfather, father) were braking engineers; most common car brake discs (GazChap is correct to say you can do exotic things) are nothing more than dumb slabs of moulded steel. They are not expensive to buy or difficult to fit.

Author:	Cras [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 21:08 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
richardgaywood wrote: Craster wrote: The hard way, I said. As in 'clatter, bang, smash smash smash, £2000 please'. I had a timing belt snap on my Astra (the 2l 8v Vauxhall engine from the mid-80s; Astra was a Mk2 GTE). Fitted a new belt and it started right up, covered another 10k miles before I sold it. I was dead chuffed! It probably was the belt then. To be honest all I really heard them say was "£2000 please".

Author:	Cras [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 22:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
richardgaywood wrote: Craster wrote: To be honest all I really heard them say was "£2000 please". 8v or 16v engine in that? By and large a cambelt/chain break is guaranteed to bend all or most of the valve stems, meaning you're looking at a total rebuild. When my Astra stopped, I got a passer-by to turn the engine over whilst I looked into the oil filler cap; when I didn't see the camshaft turn my heart sank. I couldn't believe it when it started back up without damage. Mike my Really Good Mechanic Mate has seen "over a hundred" cambelt failures in his time, and my Astra was "number three" that survived unharmed. 2.0 16V. Smashed the pistons and the head to shit in the 3s it took me to pull over and kill the engine.

Author:	kalmar [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 22:30 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
I spent Sunday taking the gearbox out of my Corsa and putting it back in again to change the clutch. Except I didn't bother changing it in the end because it's only done 120,000 miles and it was only the release bearing that was knackered.

Author:	Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 22:35 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Craster wrote: 2.0 16V. Smashed the pistons and the head to shit in the 3s it took me to pull over and kill the engine. Ouchie. I think the secret to my lucky escape with the Astra was that it failed on turnover, so there were very few RPMs driving the shaft at the time.

Author:	Dudley [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 23:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
My Corsa just sailed through its 2nd MOT with only a "Do the front brake disks at some point before next time" to its name. So I'm vaguely interested in what my localish semi-indie Vauxhall garage will charge when I get it done at the service in a few months.

Author:	BikNorton [ Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:59 ]
Post subject:	Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
richardgaywood wrote: BikNorton wrote: My non-BMW M5-spec (340mm, or something? Pretty huge) discs are being remarkably good at stopping 1.6 tonnes of hurtling 3-series, at only £100+VAT, plus £60 of pads. Dealer prices are not worth it. Indeed. Two generations of my family (grandfather, father) were braking engineers; most common car brake discs (GazChap is correct to say you can do exotic things) are nothing more than dumb slabs of moulded steel. They are not expensive to buy or difficult to fit. Oh, I paid for fitting on top - while I'll fiddle with some bits, the braking system I'll be leaving well alone thankyouverymuch (although I did the pads on my Civic with my dad's help).