Be Excellent To Each Other

The Outback failed quite significantly when I took it in for an MOT yesterday, waiting on a quote to get it fixed. (New exhaust, cv joint, anti-roll bar bushing, braking uneven) It's one of those questions of do I pay to get it fixed, or buy something else, i'm leaning towards paying as long as it isn't stupid expensive (i'm hoping for under £700), as better the devil you know! Myp's recent run of bad luck is testament to that.

I was very surprised it passed last year, as I knew it was a bit fucked back then.

Can't really afford to get a new car right this second, so fingers crossed it won't be too expensive.

Did you take your car back to the garage, Myp?

Not yet. I need to ring him today as he's waiting for some parts to fix the door and locking etc. No point taking it in twice.

Yeah, so the Subaru is dead, was going to cost way too much to fix!

The hunt is on for something else...

Oh god

Yeah, not brilliant timing, that's for sure!

Paraphrasing!

"here's your Disco Sport isn't it pretty?!"

"Why is the bonnet covered in scratches? ... Why is everything above the waist covered in scratches, now I look at it? Did someone not use a clean microfibre cloth for the final dust down?"

"Shit, sorry. We'll get that sorted on Monday. Meanwhile, here's how you lift the third row seats in the boot..."

"We ordered a 5 seat, not a 7 seat"

"Fuck"

We weren't bigger dicks about it than they were to us - at no point did they apologise, or accept that their line that a 5 seat auto petrol can't be ordered without the 1800 quid heavy-tow pack is garbage, despite that the salesperson configured it up like that right there on their internal system in front of us in march - eventually reluctantly settling for a rubber boot liner being chucked in.

And actually now I write it down, this goes some way to explaining why the dealer contribution had mysteriously gone up a grand since we last spoke and how it was so easy to get the part ex upped by 15%.

Which is all very lovely, obviously, because this car needs to last a loooong time.

Well, this is exciting, I've put the Outback up on ebay for £1 with no reserve, for spares or repair with a pic of the MOT failure sheet.
Currently it is £156, with 93 views and 19 watchers. Any guesses on where it will end up? One in good condition is worth around £1500ish, mine is very much not in good condition, even without the MOT failure. Fully working I think I could get £1k for it.

I'm going to say it will end at £428.94. The auction has 7 days left to run.

320.21

605.40

£666

£675

£324

£800,but the buyer never pays.

Now at £301.00, 170 views, 27 watchers...

In other news, here is the new Trooperide




2001 E39 BMW 520i, 1 owner from new (well, 2 but the first was the finance company), 148,000 miles, 12 months MOT, which was done a couple of days ago with no advisories. Drives really nice!
Needs a new display on radio as that is broken, and the ABS light comes on intermittently. Neither of which should be too costly to sort out, when I get round to it...
£875 from a dealer, so if it turns out to be totally fucked tomorrow, then i'm not completely on my arse.

Also, his website isn't working, so I quoted him for me to make a new one and run it for him, so that'll be nice if he comes through!

Nice. I'm considering getting rid of the 5GT and replacing it with an old E39 estate or something like that, just to avoid having a monthly car payment.

It's a lovely old beast. I've got a kit to fix the radio coming which cost £40, and should take me about and hour to do. The ABS issue looks to be the ABS ECU freaking out, which "They all do that, sir", it's around £150 to get it rebuilt, which isn't awful. I might just leave it, as all that happens is the dash light comes on every so often and the ABS doesn't work, the car is still completely usable.

It looks like it has been looked after at least, it came with 4 nearly new Continental tyres fitted, which is a good sign!

I would have preferred an estate, but it was a matter of what was the best car in the best condition in walking distance! It was either this or a £500 Vectra...

Outback status : £331.00, 559 views, 54 watchers, 3d 6h left to go.

I'm pretty sure the relevant government agency would take a dim view of them selling and insisting on not fixing a safety feature/mot failure.

About the abs? He told me about it before I bought it, which I was fine with.

Radio is fixed...ish

The radio lcd was smashed, so i've replaced it and I still have a few missing pixels. Things are 90% legible so it is good enough, but I think that whatever smashed the screen did a bit more damage than just cracking the LCD.

If the light is on the dash it fails an mot so is unroadworthy.

I'm not sure "I told the guy it was like that" is acceptable defence.

But if you're fine with it maybe failing at some point fair enough.

It's not an E39/38 BMW unless it's got dodgy pixels I remember that 730 you sold me had a couple!

That would suggest you're not allowed to sell a car without an MOT.

If you sell a car without an MOT and the person drives it away, are you an accomplice to the crime?

Let's go the source!
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/75

As it'd fail an MOT in that state, seems reasonably clear cut to me that it was unroadworthy.


There is a carve-out for the seller for this:

...which take care of the "I sold it to someone who was going to repair it" situation but doesn't cover Trooper's purchase.

Well, interestingly, it is a criminal offence to knowingly sell an unroadworthy car.

I suppose the distinction is that just because it has an MOT that doesn't mean it's roadworthy. Although selling a car with a fault that would not pass an MOT surely means you're knowingly selling it as unroadworthy.

I assume you can get around this by selling a car as "spares and repairs" or whatever, though.

Gaz not reading one statute

Your post wasn't there when I started writing mine (and weirdly, it didn't do the "there's been another post since" screen)

Have you bought many cheap cars in the past?

The car has an MOT, which is a point in time, it doesn't need another one for another 12 months. The light being on doesn't make the car unroadworthy in the slightest, as all it does is change the car from being a car with ABS into a car without ABS, of which I've driven a fair few of them in my time. It doesn't invalidate the MOT either.

At this end of the market, telling the customer about the faults and them agreeing they are ok with it is a completely acceptable defense.

The wording

suggests to me you'd need to go quite a bit further than just saying "spares or repairs" eg. refuse to hand the car over if the buyer doesn't show up with a flatbed.

That's literally the opposite of what the law says, but OK.

No. It is entirely the responsibility of the driver as to whether they drive a car with or without an MOT.

The law states "the number and nature of brakes, and for securing that brakes, silencers and steering gear are efficient and kept in proper working order,"

The brakes on the car work fine, the car efficiently stops. When the light comes on the ABS stops working, the car still efficiently stops, just without the ABS kicking in. The brakes are in proper working order, the ABS system isn't.

However, today, the light isn't on and everything is working perfectly.

But that isn't how the world works, whether it is down to the absolute letter of the law or not.
I have bought and sold a LOT of cars over the past 20 years or so. There is absolutely zero chance of anything happening to a seller who sells a car without an MOT and the buyer drives it off, all onus is on the buyer in that case.

The pixels on the speedo are still going strong on this one, which is more of a ballache to swap out.
I can't see the time on this MID unit, as the pixels have gone there, but i've got a watch instead

I might just call up the dealer and give the car back though, as it's patently unroadworthy with a non visible clock, making me look at my watch while driving is dangerous...

So you're saying it would pass an MOT with faulty ABS, then? As the brakes are working.

Are you saying no-one has ever been convicted for this? Ever? Because I haven't Googled that yet but I suspect you're incorrect.

Rarely prosecuted? Sure. A law that's often flouted and difficult to detect and often left unenforced? I can believe all of that. But "absolutely zero chance" is a high bar.

No, it will fail the MOT if the ABS light is on.
The car will pass the MOT as it currently stands.

Google away google boy And feel free to take hyperbole literally as is the want on here, technically correct being the best kind of correct of course.

I was trying to make head or tail out of this when I got bored but I *think* that if the bulb wasn't lit then it could well pass an MOT:

http://www.ukmot.com/manual/3.7/Roller-Brake-Test#MOT

Nah, if a car has an ABS system, then the ABS light comes on when the key is turned, and goes off after a few seconds. The tester should look for that and will fail it if it doesn't happen.

In my case though, when the car went for it's MOT, the ABS system was working as designed.
When I bought the car, the ABS system was working as designed. Dude said the light came on intermittently, I said no problem, I can live with that issue.
Currently, the ABS system is working as designed.

But, you know, the car is unroadworthy, it was illegal for him to sell it to me, and I should return it.

Yeah, I'm just going to leave this conversation now, thanks.

What I mean is that they don't actually seem to test the functioning of the ABS system beyond checking if the car's own diagnostics are flagging a problem and lighting the bulb. Which is something I find a bit surprising unless those systems are actually so robust that the warning light will near enough always come on if there's any kind of a problem.

The MOT doesn’t include a road test. I don’t think there’s any realistic way that’s they can do more than check the light, which is a pretty reliable indicator of a fault.

The Tomcat is road tested specifically to check the brakes

The brakes in an MOT are tested on rollers, so it should be obvious if the ABS is working or not.

I think that's what I originally said. I don't know any more

After having the disco back in to fix paint today, Helen has now booked it back in on Thursday to fix the paint.

Hilariously, what improvement they did manage to make has shown up a defect *under* the paint in one of the rear quarter panels.

They tried to argue on the phone that a black car shows the things up. My counter on Thursday will be a pearlescent black Honda costing less than half as much 15 years ago didn't. Also a shiny blue Renault 7 years ago. That added together didn't even get close to this.

A fucking RENAULT.

The rules were probably different back then

911!