Be Excellent To Each Other

Or children.

That.

The state will pay for your children, though

Yeah, depressingly. For some reason excluding people too poor to raise children with their own money isn't morally acceptable. But people will have children regardless, and it's even worse to let them suffer just because their parents are stupid. Oh well.

FTFY with examples.

When I started going to college in Kilmarnock I was very depressed to discover that a lot of my classmates friends had planned pregnancies at 15 and 16 to get a 'free' house off the council with their partner. Some of my classmates seemed to be considering doing it as well and just giving up on getting a trade.

What's the solution, though? I mean, how would you stop people who didn't have much money from having kids? And what happens if you are rich and get pregnant, but then loose all your money?

Of course, some people don't have much money and are still excellent parents and raise their kids well.

Reversibly sterilise everyone at birth, and then only undo it when they pass a test and get a parenting licence. Money is not an issue, but parenting ability and willingness to actually, you know, be a good parent will be.

That's a Brave New World you are describing there, Chris.

I've come up with a natty flag for my Brave New World based on some old Hindu symbology, but reversed. It would symbolise rebirth or something.

Yeah. It would fuck Jeremy Kyle.

Or you could just wear some dark sunglasses and Tip-Ex "ATTITUDE" onto them.

Indeed. I'm not sure there's anything you can do, or anything you should do. I'm not sure.

But people shouldn't be able to choose ‘Leave school and have kids’ as a career choice, all the same.

Plenty of good kids come from bad parents.

Not brave enough.

Nah it's in the genes innit.

Goodness isn't genetic, then, but badness is?

Well, maybe, but if we *can* do something, why take that risk? Only allow good parents to have kids, and we'll increase the percentage of good kids. Plus, we're overpopulated anyway, so anything that also reduces the population is a good thing.

The population is certainly too high. But what would be on the good parent test? Lend them a baby for a week?

Also, I wasn't talking about genetics, Craster was.

Why do people think that the population is too high?

]"Do you read the Daily Mail?" yes = fail.

I'm not sure whaty it would be - but I'm sure some clever people who do social sciences and psychology and that could work one up that had a fair degree of accuracy in predicting the good ones.



I know, chap.



The queues at the post office.

It's not people getting pregnant that is the problem, more the kind of people getting pregnant. Middle class degree educated people are the worst offenders with a lot of them either never having children or leaving it very late to do so. The population of this country is already getting old and I think the stats are quite alarming that nearly 50% of the population is over 50 or soon will be. Ask yourself this? Who's going to fund the state in your dotage? Or will you ever be able to afford to retire?

Quick vox pop, how many 25-40 something degree educated well paid members in here aren't parents yet?

I'm 29, married, degree educated and childless, FYI

I haven't got a degree but other than that, I fit into that catagory.

I for one would welcome a eugenics thread.

Wait, what?



Call me crazy, but which bit of the state? I'll still be paying tax on my earnings, even after I've retired. I'll still be paying car tax, VAT, and I'll still have private medical cover. All the businesses I'll still be patronising will still be paying corporation tax on their earnings. A declining population may have declining GDP, but it has declining costs, too.

I've got a degree, I'm not rich and I have a kid, I'm married* and I'm 35.

*sorry ladies.

Yeah, me too (and Lady T, well, she's a little bit younger than I am).

The lady's not for turning.


So, kid insurance eh?

The bit of the state that funds morons breeding, obviously

Yeah, have you seen how much elderly care costs?

Heh. I'll not make it to elderly care. And if I did, my lack of kids would mean I have a house and all my wordly possessions to rinse through to pay for it.

I'm still confused as to what you think I'm the worst offender of.

Can I have your Camera?

Can I have The Saboteur?

Nah, I'll give it to someone who can handle the tank-driving bits.

Um... so? Fewer people having kids = a good thing. And even assuming that's accurate (which I doubt - most of the nobbier type of middle class people I know are just gagging to spawn a little Tarquin and Henrietta to live through vicariously), why is that a bad thing, exactly? Being middle class and having a degree doesn't mean you're genetically superior or a better parent than anyone else. Hell, look at the proportion of middle class teenagers who commit suicide, get fucked off their face on drugs and crash four cars, or hooked on fruit machines or whatever.



Oi. My mum reads the daily mail, and she's ... oh, right. Good point.

Not in the short term.

It strikes me that it is the victory of short-term thinking over long-term thinking that is actually at the crux of these problems. I'd elaborate, but it will be long and I'm sleepy. Pretend I said something profound please.

I was making a spreadsheet of this, but I ran out of rows...

Good point. Discussion over