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Stagnation of videogames progress
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1232		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  markg [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Author:  Dudley [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Mr Bob wrote:
Dudley wrote:

And it fucking well should be, the 360 was made for TMU.

Why not the wii?controls would work just as well , and the wiimote would probably be better for editing.Plus a download Tracks channel or something.
There is the DS version thats out in a bit though.


Wii controls would be horrific in TMU imo, not to mention TMU really does look gorgeous in HD.

But apart from that, the wii has no decent online, TMU lives for being on a server with 200 other people (quite literally) and the Wii can't do that. You can't invite your friends to a game in progress, it's virtually impossible to properly construct a private one...

The Wii might be marginally nicer for building tracks though.

I have no confidence in a DS version whatsoever.

Quote:
Cannon Fodder simply could not exist in the current climate in a way able to pay for its development. Perhaps if it was tied to a movie, it might, though.


But as we point out above, Cannon Fodder wasn't exactly the start of a new genre, it's an evolution of Airbourne Ranger and its ilk (which incidentally had the promotion after successful mission for alive characters thing). If it's a new genre, so is Red Steel.

Quote:
Sports and party games on the Wii are insane amounts of fun, definitely - at least while they're new.

If you buy both, though, I would be willing to put money on the 360 being the one that you are still playing in 6 months time.


The key point is "party".

If you permanently have 4 mates round, the wii makes sense. As a single player console? Not...so...much.
Author:  CraigGrannell [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Dudley wrote:
But as we point out above, Cannon Fodder wasn't exactly the start of a new genre, it's an evolution of Airbourne Ranger and its ilk (which incidentally had the promotion after successful mission for alive characters thing).

I'd say CF = Lemmings + Commando. My point, which wasn't obvious, was that CF was original IP at the time, if not an entirely original game (if that makes sense). However, it simple couldn't exist today without a big ol' licence, despite it being a #1 title in 1993.
Author:  MaliA [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
I thought syndicate was pretty funky.
Author:  Dudley [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
I don't see why not, Viva Pinata exists, Pheonix Wright was made, so were Elite Beat Agents, Portal, Trackmania etc.
Author:  AceAceBaby [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
CraigGrannell wrote:
To be fair to Jops, he's not an idiot, nor some kind of up-their-own-arse arty type. He happily made a Casper game recently, noting that "you can do anything with Casper". His point is that truly original content and concepts are nigh-on impossible to get past publishers these days, and that homogenisation is inevitable in the current market. Cannon Fodder simply could not exist in the current climate in a way able to pay for its development. Perhaps if it was tied to a movie, it might, though.


Well my point is that he's clinging to a tired old gravy train while complaining about the state of trains, when he could be jumping on a motorbike and winning at awesome.
Author:  Plissken [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
What is stopping Jops doing a Yak and building something for XBLA? Genuine question because if Minter can get Space Giraffe published, Jops should be able to do something.
Author:  CUS [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Plissken wrote:
Genuine question because if Minter can get Space Giraffe published, anyone should be able to do anything.

Gimme an 'F', gimme a 'T' etc.
Author:  Dudley [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Space Giraffe didn't sell though.

That's either because the entire public are idiots (Minter)

Or that it was completely fucking incomprehensible without prior Minter knowledge (everyone else)
Author:  CUS [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Dudley wrote:
Or that it was completely fucking incomprehensible without prior Minter knowledge (everyone else)

Good sunglasses, them Prior Minter Knowledges.
Author:  Dudley [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Well that too of course. He lost me as soon as he said "you don't need to see a game to do it, you play by sound!", when you can't hear this "sound" over the annoying danceloop.
Author:  CUS [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Dudley wrote:
annoying dunce slop.

Yep, that sounds like Space Giraffe to me-FTFY.
Author:  Plissken [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
All that is beside the point - it got made available.

Of course Teh Hardcore didn't buy it. Despite it costing less than the copy of Edge magazine that they were bitching about the review scores on.
Author:  CUS [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Plissken wrote:
Of course Teh Hardcore didn't buy it.

Didn't they? I thought they were about the only people who DID buy it. I mean, my own purchase of it was because I approve of SG in theory, very strongly in fact, despite it being a rancid game.

I don't know if Jops has any particular original game ideas he'd love to bring to XBL, but I know I'd love to see some of the Sensi back-catalogue thoroughly probed, if that's do-able. I don't imagine Wizkid would get Microsoft's interest much, but cor, wouldn't Cannon Fodder work well?
Author:  AceAceBaby [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Like I said, he complains about the lack of originality, while treading the same old path himself. If he wants to be avant garde, he can do it, and make money from it. It doesn't take a publisher to wait there with bags full of bank notes to underwrite his project.

Shareware (hey, I paid for Armadillo Run), donationware, phone games, xbox live arcade, new media. I dunno, all kinds of avenues to explore. But he wants the late 1980s back, and things how they were. He only wants originality in design, but he's clinging to conservative funding options. Conservative funding options lead to conservative thinking. He needs to think outside the (jewel case, keep case) box himself.
Author:  Grim... [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
AceAceBaby wrote:
Lave wrote:
I mean a text adventure? in 2008? Yes please!


Here you go :) http://www.ifarchive.org


http://www.hsmx.com/cyoa/playad.php?id=97&new=1 :)

I'm officially going to write a new version of that with Fighting Fantasy rules soon.
Author:  Dimrill [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Hmmm, I think there's a bit too much reading into what Jops said, without actually reading what Jops actually said. Like.
Author:  CUS [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
What is it that Jops said?
Author:  AceAceBaby [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
No idea. Just frothing around thoughts from the original post's "any thoughts?"
Author:  CUS [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Yus. I mean, I just entirely disagree with Mr. Jops on this, unless the point were changed to 'The destruction of most of the British games industry in the late 90s really fucked sucked, and still sucks'. Also, I'm weak and pitifully unable to resist making jokes about Space Giraffe.
Author:  YOG [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 14:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Quote:
All that is beside the point - it got made available.


Aye, but even then, it's not the most innovative game in the sense you were talking about earlier. For me, the problem isn't so much that fresh ideas are lacking (hell, even shmups, which may seem incredibly conservative on the surface, are constantly evolving in all sorts of directions), it's that there's a severe deficit of 'soul'. On the one hand, I'm disgusted by the thousands of charmless and boring FPS games that are released every quarter of an hour, and on the other I'm soiling my pants over Mega Man 9, Otomedius, Wario Land: Shake, Raiden IV, etc. Games that might not have one brand new idea between them, but which I'm excited about because I know they're labours of love that espouse the kind of design philosophies I've always admired.
Author:  Mr Dave [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 14:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Dudley wrote:
Well that too of course. He lost me as soon as he said "you don't need to see a game to do it, you play by sound!", when you can't hear this "sound" over the annoying danceloop.


And this is why I played a custom soundtrack during the game. Of silence.

And that is how I managed to get a top 80 score.
Author:  AceAceBaby [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 14:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
I wonder how much homogeneity is due to the common language shared by games. I'm half remembering a professor in music studies explaining how the language of music (in Western culture at least, I dunno exactly) has been basically set for hundreds of years now, which more or less puts music in one great big rut.
Author:  Dudley [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 14:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Mr Dave wrote:
Dudley wrote:
Well that too of course. He lost me as soon as he said "you don't need to see a game to do it, you play by sound!", when you can't hear this "sound" over the annoying danceloop.


And this is why I played a custom soundtrack during the game. Of silence.

And that is how I managed to get a top 80 score.


I can't help but think I'm cheating when I do that.
Author:  Mr Dave [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 15:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Dudley wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
Dudley wrote:
Well that too of course. He lost me as soon as he said "you don't need to see a game to do it, you play by sound!", when you can't hear this "sound" over the annoying danceloop.


And this is why I played a custom soundtrack during the game. Of silence.

And that is how I managed to get a top 80 score.


I can't help but think I'm cheating when I do that.


Wheras I can't help but feel that I'm actually having some degree of fun rather than cluelessly going "whuh" because I got killed by something hidden in Minters horrific pile of mess.
Author:  CUS [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 15:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Mr Dave wrote:
Wheras I can't help but feel that I'm actually having some degree of fun rather than cluelessly going "whuh" because I got killed by something hidden in Minters horrific pile of mess.

Indeed, if you turn off the sound, and fiddle with your telly a bit, a semi-alright version of Tempest is revealed.
Author:  romanista [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 15:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
space giraffe is a lot of fun thoughm bullying is quite satisfying (although the game is incredibly frusty as well at times)
but as said before, i don't think there will be many space giraffes on xbla anymore
Author:  Dudley [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 16:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Mr Dave wrote:

Wheras I can't help but feel that I'm actually having some degree of fun rather than cluelessly going "whuh" because I got killed by something hidden in Minters horrific pile of mess.


Well indeed, so instead I go and play something fun.
Author:  Mr Dave [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 16:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
The thing is, it actually was fun. Until he entirely borked it with the update.
Author:  CUS [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 16:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Mr Dave wrote:
The thing is, it actually was fun. Until he entirely borked it with the update.

I know what you meant, but I'm choosing to believe that you agree that Minter's 'update' of Tempest, for XBL, is a non-fun thing, borked by his wacky stylization. I know that's not what you said but y'know - heeee! ;)
Author:  metalangel [ Wed Jul 09, 2008 18:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stagnation of videogames progress
Mr Chris wrote:
Anyone remember Stunt Island though? A whole game based around spending ages desiging your own "levels" and then flying your plane through it and recording your stunt. Absolute awesomery.


Fuck yeah. It was my number one all time favourite game until GTA: San Andreas came out and gave me the same kind of vehicular sandbox mayhem... but with modern graphics, controls and a world that reacted without spending hours setting up those collision windows and writing triggers and flags and stuff.

I'm still on the SIFA (Stunt Island Filmmaker's Association) Yahoo group... if I had some webspace I could shock them by finally releasing my Blade Runner parody that I made back in 1999.
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