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Awful videogame companies
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Author:  Bamba [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 22:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Cras wrote:
So for games like KF2 on Steam, where you can sell the stuff you get from opening loot boxes on Steam marketplace, that would be covered?


Sounds like. The fact that you you can't sell anything on is certainly a big protection under that description. I suppose it's like the arcades that award tickets for winning shit. You're exchanging tickets rather than money for prizes, and that level of abstraction is enough to keep it out of legislation that's never imagined this situation.
Author:  myp [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 22:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Don’t you sell things for Steam credit though? Not actual cash.
Author:  Bamba [ Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Mr Chonks wrote:
Don’t you sell things for Steam credit though? Not actual cash.


"Monetary value" though innit? The credit you get is measured in actual pounds and pence so certainly falls foul of that ruling.
Author:  Hearthly [ Wed Jul 24, 2019 13:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Bamba wrote:
Sounds like. The fact that you you can't sell anything on is certainly a big protection under that description. I suppose it's like the arcades that award tickets for winning shit. You're exchanging tickets rather than money for prizes, and that level of abstraction is enough to keep it out of legislation that's never imagined this situation.


This is the crux of it for me, they're fending off the 'it's not gambling' accusation on a technicality of outdated legislation that desperately needs to catch up to a reality that has only really come about in the last few years.

The contents of loot boxes clearly hold tremendous value for many people, even if they're not money or have monetary value.

Heck, I'm really quite proud of my Hearthstone card collection, which is literally a collection of digital cards (which can't be traded or sold) that only exist in a single game, and would disappear the second Blizzard turn the servers off.

Loot boxes are a form of predatory and psychologically manipulative gambling, the law needs to catch up, and any game that contains them should be a Certificate 18.

The mere fact that EA resort to talking about all the parental controls that exist to control spending in games like Fifa (suitable for ages 3 and up!) demonstrates that it's not suitable for children in the first fucking place.
Author:  Pundabaya [ Wed Jul 24, 2019 14:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
I had never thought it as gambling before. Quite interesting.

Legally, it isn't.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-49074003

Quote:
The UK gambling watchdog has told MPs that it does not currently oversee the purchase of in-game content like Fifa player packs and video game loot boxes.

This is because there is no official way to monetise what is inside them.

A prize has to be either money or have monetary value in order for it to fall under gambling legislation.


Currently. The whole point of the committee that Eviltronic Arts made their 'suprise mechanics' bullshit presentation to is looking at whether the law should be changed.

Which it probably should.
Author:  Grim... [ Wed Jul 24, 2019 15:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Pundabaya wrote:
Eviltronic Arts

:roll:
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Jul 24, 2019 16:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Pundabaya wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Legally, it isn't.

Currently.

Did I stutter?
Author:  zaphod79 [ Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
https://uk.ign.com/articles/2019/07/25/ ... 05931475=1

Quote:
Gambling Laws Appear to Block GTA Online Update In Over 50 Countries
Author:  Cras [ Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Cor. A casino you can't play in is a big kick in the teeth
Author:  Grim... [ Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
We were talking about this on Wednesday night!
Author:  Dimrill [ Thu Aug 01, 2019 17:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Wonderful looking Ooblets, what I have bin wortchin for a year or so now, has announced their Epic Store exclusivity. Quite upset.
Author:  Hearthly [ Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Jim covers the increasing trend of microtransactions being added to games a couple of months after launch.

For the TL:DWers

1) It avoids negative publicity in reviews, as microtransactions are basically now critical appraisal kryptonite. Reviewers can't comment on stuff that doesn't exist.

2) When the game is rated by the ESRB, they don't get the 'contains in-app purchases' label (The ESRB do eventually update their digital guidance for this, but physical copies of course escape, and the guidance printed on their boxes then becomes misleading).

3) They get players invested in the game and committed to grinding out all the stuff they want, before adding in a convenient cash shortcut to purchase all those things with real, hard cash. (Despite the fact the players bought the product as a full price complete game upfront.)

Good watch.
Author:  myp [ Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Thanks for summing it up and saving me 45 mins
Author:  markg [ Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Hearthly wrote:
Jim covers the increasing trend of microtransactions being added to games a couple of months after launch.

For the TL:DWers

1) It avoids negative publicity in reviews, as microtransactions are basically now critical appraisal kryptonite. Reviewers can't comment on stuff that doesn't exist.

2) When the game is rated by the ESRB, they don't get the 'contains in-app purchases' label (The ESRB do eventually update their digital guidance for this, but physical copies of course escape, and the guidance printed on their boxes then becomes misleading).

3) They get players invested in the game and committed to grinding out all the stuff they want, before adding in a convenient cash shortcut to purchase all those things with real, hard cash. (Despite the fact the players bought the product as a full price complete game upfront.)

TL:DR
Author:  Hearthly [ Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
markg wrote:
TL:DR


Stop it you.
Author:  Sir Taxalot [ Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Hearthly wrote:
Jim covers the increasing trend of microtransactions being added to games a couple of months after launch.



That does sound like a really shitty practice. Is paying for things the new cheat code? Do cheat codes even exist in games much nowadays? It's been a long time since I played a modern game.
Author:  DavPaz [ Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Tetris Effect PC is Epic exclusive. Dagnamit
Author:  Hearthly [ Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Sir Taxalot wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
Jim covers the increasing trend of microtransactions being added to games a couple of months after launch.



That does sound like a really shitty practice. Is paying for things the new cheat code? Do cheat codes even exist in games much nowadays? It's been a long time since I played a modern game.


It's worse than that. Ubisoft introduced a 'Player Quest Designer' for the latest Assassin's Creed game (so a nice way to get people to make free content for your game....), and of course one of the first things that people did is design quests that gave loads of XP for practically zero effort, and release them onto the official download area for player generated content.

Now, this is a single player game, it doesn't affect anyone else, so what's the problem?

Well, of course, the game is notoriously grindy and level-gated, particularly in the midgame, to the extent that Ubisoft actually sell a $10 'XP Booster' for it, this is a paid add-on for a single player game that literally means you have to play less of it.

The problem with these player designed quests that give loads of XP for little effort is that it treads on Ubisoft's toes for selling their XP Boosters (in their already full price game), so all these quests were removed with Ubisoft stating that the quests 'didn't meet their high standards', and also that action may be taken against people who repeatedly upload quests that 'violate community guidelines'.

So even your single player game isn't yours any more.
Author:  Grim... [ Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
DavPaz wrote:
Tetris Effect PC is Epic exclusive. Dagnamit

I still don't get why this is an issue for people.
Author:  DavPaz [ Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Grim... wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
Tetris Effect PC is Epic exclusive. Dagnamit

I still don't get why this is an issue for people.

It's a moot point anyway, as I'm not paying £32 for Tetris. I'll wait for it to be £10
Author:  Findus Fop [ Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
DavPaz wrote:
Grim... wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
Tetris Effect PC is Epic exclusive. Dagnamit

I still don't get why this is an issue for people.

It's a moot point anyway, as I'm not paying £32 for Tetris. I'll wait for it to be £10


If one has a PS4 with PS+, you can get it for about £15 at the moment as Sony are doing 25% off items bought on PSN, with a code.
Author:  DavPaz [ Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Findus Fop wrote:
If one has a PS4 with PS+, you can get it for about £15 at the moment as Sony are doing 25% off items bought on PSN, with a code.

One does not. But thanks for looking out for me ;)
Author:  Findus Fop [ Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
DavPaz wrote:
Findus Fop wrote:
If one has a PS4 with PS+, you can get it for about £15 at the moment as Sony are doing 25% off items bought on PSN, with a code.

One does not. But thanks for looking out for me ;)


Shame

*sips tea out of tiny cup*
Author:  LewieP [ Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
I'm not going to play Borderlands 3, but I am very curious about how much drama there is going to be circling Randy Pitchford between now and it's release next month.
Author:  romanista [ Sat Aug 10, 2019 13:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
My dutch paper has a big article on the (originally dutch) site Booking.com ... it ain;t just game companies who are nasty.. phew..
Author:  Grim... [ Sat Aug 10, 2019 14:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
We are hoovering up new employees from Booking.com, Culture Trip and Just Eat right now.
Author:  Da5e [ Tue Aug 13, 2019 16:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
BECTU have released a damning study that essentially paints the games industry as the playground of a bunch of slavedriving bullies.

I would say they're right—my missus is an R&D lead at a well-known developer of AAA titles, and is patronised, bullied, belittled and uncredited constantly. I myself worked for Games Workshop* for some years, and left because the culture of bullying and dismissiveness was making me ashamed to work there (I was part of a group there who set up an LGBT forum, only to be told seniors would refuse to recognise it as it wasn't 'an important issue'.)

Grim... wrote:
We are hoovering up new employees from Booking.com, Culture Trip and Just Eat right now.


Do you need to hoover up any copywriters? I hate where I am now.


*sort of counts. It's games, and it's run by twats.
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
https://twitter.com/slasher/status/1181065339230130181





https://twitter.com/slasher/status/1181442535962632193
Author:  Hearthly [ Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Well considering Blizzard are super invested in the Chinese market I guess it's not really that surprising.
Author:  JohnCoffey [ Tue Oct 08, 2019 16:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
I'm getting pissed off at Forza Horizon 3. Twice now it's sent me on a 13km wild goose chase, then wanted cash money out of my pocket.

The first one was Blizzard Mountain or whatever it's called. "Hey new races here !" drive all the way there and £16. Then last night it sent me to a new race, same distance, and when I got there it wanted £13 for a racing truck to enter the event.

And it's pissing me off. I could use my credits fast travelling there, but then I'd have to waste more in game money fast travelling back so I am stuck with a 5-10 min drive each time. I'm starting to spend more fucking time going to things it wants £ for than actually playing the cunting game.

And I wouldn't mind so much but it's all just so plotted and fucking blatant. It literally pesters you and wastes your time. Time that should be fun, not a ground out slog that is nothing but a waste of time unless you're prepared to get out your debit card.
Author:  DavPaz [ Tue Oct 08, 2019 17:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
There's plenty of game without the DLC, dude. You don't have to buy it
Author:  Satsuma [ Tue Oct 08, 2019 18:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
If JC is correct and he’s being led to races and only then to find out that they require paid items or an exchange of money, it’s fucking disgusting. It’s also completely irrelevant how much of the game can be accessed outside of the paid content if the game is going out of its way to waste your time just to nickel and dime the player.
Author:  DavPaz [ Tue Oct 08, 2019 18:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
"Fucking disgusting?" Slight over reaction. I don't remember the DLC being pushed on me at all. It's only mentioned if you select it as a waypoint on the map and actually drive there on purpose.
Author:  DavPaz [ Tue Oct 08, 2019 18:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Also, you can click cancel.
Author:  Satsuma [ Tue Oct 08, 2019 18:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
DavPaz wrote:
"Fucking disgusting?" Slight over reaction.


Also, I should mention I’ve never played it. BUT IM MAD ABOUT A THING I READ.
Author:  DavPaz [ Tue Oct 08, 2019 18:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Satsuma wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
"Fucking disgusting?" Slight over reaction.


Also, I should mention I’ve never played it. BUT IM MAD ABOUT A THING I READ.

Would it help if I told you to CALM DOWN?
Author:  Satsuma [ Tue Oct 08, 2019 18:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
To be fair, what JC describes isn’t what you describe. Perhaps JC can do an explanatory video which I can get mad about or makes him look like a dick?
Author:  DavPaz [ Tue Oct 08, 2019 18:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
I'll boot it up later and see if it's pushier than I recall
Author:  JohnCoffey [ Tue Oct 08, 2019 20:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
DavPaz wrote:
There's plenty of game without the DLC, dude. You don't have to buy it


There is, but I feel my enjoyment is being encroached by the game's persistence in trying to get more than the £20? I paid for it. I bought a big bundle of games this time last year for winter, but sadly my flat was uninhabitable and then come January the move began so they got packed in a box still shrink wrapped. It's only a week or so ago that I finally started it.

I see that you can spend over £100 on a new "full version" of the game. Which is probably all of it, not the small portion I ended up with. I don't mind that, but it constantly sending me to places takes away from the fun.

It's a shame, because we're talking about a seriously good game here. It's like a cross between NFSU 2 and Dirt 2, two of my fave drivey games ever, but constantly being sent to get told "oops, can't have this bit unless you get your card out!" Is fucking irritating.

It definitely takes away from the game, rather than adding to it. Being given 70% of something is lame. I kinda feel like when I went to see the second Matrix movie. "Hang on, so that's half of it and I now have to wait for the second half and then pay again?" Comes to mind.

Know what? I never saw the conclusion because I don't like being ripped off. It's a swizz.
Author:  JohnCoffey [ Tue Oct 08, 2019 22:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
OK a follow up. So this is how this happened.. I had been playing a couple of hours and finished an area. It then opened a new one. I went there, did a couple of races and then it mentions this Blizzard Mountain. Which from where I was earlier is this far away.

Image

Now bear in mind I started the game in a shitty slow car. It was 12km+ away. The only reason I drove there was because it had snow. I like snow. Any way, this is what it looks like actually highlighted on the map.

Image

There is no mention whatsoever (I checked) that is it a paid for part of the map. You have to drive all of the way there to find that out. Then, you have to drive all of the way back from whence you came. So that is 24km which takes quite a while.

As for the race I had to pay for? I nearly had that spot on. I went back earlier (well, I spawned there) and every other car apart from the very first one wants you to spend £13 on the car pack. The only reason this happened was because I didn't quite like the look of the one I could buy in game (as, would I imagine, many others). When I looked earlier though this tank cost 600,000 CR. I had about 70,000. It probably knows this too, which is probably why they put it so far away and make you think "hey ! I wonder what that is !" only to get there and find that you're going to have to pay.

So that one was somewhat user error, but at no point in the game have I yet been close to 600k CR. That's insane.

Any way, I just played for about 1.5 hours. I noticed that every time I finished a race it showed me this.

Image

You know? kinda like as an advert between loading. I ignored it and carried on playing. I then entered a 3 race championship, won it and then it showed me yet another advert for Blizzard Mountain. As if this wasn't bad enough it then started showing me an advert for Hot Wheels ! which pissed me off so much I went off to the toilet for a wee.

When I got back? this is what was waiting for me.

Image

I didn't touch anything apart from what I pee from.

Am I being sensitive? yes, maybe a little. Am I being over sensitive and freaking out? no. It's taking the piss, even when I am in chilled out "Let's just try and ignore it" mode. It's really ruining the game.

This is why that video with the guy talking about hats and shit is just so spot on. Yes, having hats and stupid shit makes little real difference, but, at the same time it's not constantly trying to make you buy the hat as you've obviously paid for it. I don't expect all of this "extra"? content. I'm not fussed. However, what is pissing me off is its constant need to keep going on and on and fucking on about it. Seriously, they must have thought "Shit, some people won't buy it because they won't be that bothered, so let's drive them fucking crazy with it until they do !". That's how it feels. I'm trying to ignore it and pretend its not there but it's constantly mashing it in my face.
Author:  Satsuma [ Tue Oct 08, 2019 23:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Now it just sounds like you didn’t realise that Blizzard Mountain was DLC content that had been released. Ah well.

It’s a boring driving game anyway so I wouldn’t worry. Go play Split Second instead.
Author:  DavPaz [ Wed Oct 09, 2019 0:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
I'm sorry you've had a bad experience, JC. I don't know if I'm just less sensitive to the mind games that games play with you to spend more money but whenever I get prompted to buy anything extra I just cancel it without thinking about it. It doesn't even really register as an annoyance. I do remember the car pack thing being mildly irritating but after you've played for a few hours the trickle of in-game credits becomes a veritable flood, so you'll be unlocking better cars left, right and centre.

(Too late to make a difference: Forza Horizon 4 is a much better game. Buy that instead)
Author:  JohnCoffey [ Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Yeah I'm going to get 4 after I'm done with this :)
Author:  Hearthly [ Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Buy the Ultimate Edition though, or I fear you'll be getting a lot more of the same cobblers.
Author:  myp [ Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Yes, you must spend £100 to ensure you don’t get a stripped down version.
Author:  Hearthly [ Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
I found the Ultimate Edition of FH4 to be pretty generous in terms of the content it offered for the cost. I hate the sort of shit JC is talking about above as well, so I figured I'd avoid it by just buying the most expensive version of the game to start with.

TBH I think I got good value for money out of the game overall, despite spending £90 or whatever it was on the Ultimate Edition.
Author:  GazChap [ Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
I'm with JC on this one - if that area of the map is locked off unless you buy something, it should at least have a symbol or something on the map so that you know that it's not accessible and that you'll be asked to pony up cash for it when you drive over there.

I know *why* they don't do that, but it's still a shitty practice.
Author:  JohnCoffey [ Wed Oct 09, 2019 13:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Hearthly wrote:
Buy the Ultimate Edition though, or I fear you'll be getting a lot more of the same cobblers.


Aye. I'll wait until it's a wee bit cheaper than £100 though.
Author:  myp [ Wed Oct 09, 2019 14:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Hearthly wrote:
I found the Ultimate Edition of FH4 to be pretty generous in terms of the content it offered for the cost. I hate the sort of shit JC is talking about above as well, so I figured I'd avoid it by just buying the most expensive version of the game to start with.

TBH I think I got good value for money out of the game overall, despite spending £90 or whatever it was on the Ultimate Edition.

You’re the sort of person who is enabling the shitty practices you mostly complain about tbh
Author:  Hearthly [ Wed Oct 09, 2019 14:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Awful videogame companies
Thanks!
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