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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 22:29 
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Cras wrote:
So for games like KF2 on Steam, where you can sell the stuff you get from opening loot boxes on Steam marketplace, that would be covered?


Sounds like. The fact that you you can't sell anything on is certainly a big protection under that description. I suppose it's like the arcades that award tickets for winning shit. You're exchanging tickets rather than money for prizes, and that level of abstraction is enough to keep it out of legislation that's never imagined this situation.


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 22:45 
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Don’t you sell things for Steam credit though? Not actual cash.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:04 
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Mr Chonks wrote:
Don’t you sell things for Steam credit though? Not actual cash.


"Monetary value" though innit? The credit you get is measured in actual pounds and pence so certainly falls foul of that ruling.


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 13:19 
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Bamba wrote:
Sounds like. The fact that you you can't sell anything on is certainly a big protection under that description. I suppose it's like the arcades that award tickets for winning shit. You're exchanging tickets rather than money for prizes, and that level of abstraction is enough to keep it out of legislation that's never imagined this situation.


This is the crux of it for me, they're fending off the 'it's not gambling' accusation on a technicality of outdated legislation that desperately needs to catch up to a reality that has only really come about in the last few years.

The contents of loot boxes clearly hold tremendous value for many people, even if they're not money or have monetary value.

Heck, I'm really quite proud of my Hearthstone card collection, which is literally a collection of digital cards (which can't be traded or sold) that only exist in a single game, and would disappear the second Blizzard turn the servers off.

Loot boxes are a form of predatory and psychologically manipulative gambling, the law needs to catch up, and any game that contains them should be a Certificate 18.

The mere fact that EA resort to talking about all the parental controls that exist to control spending in games like Fifa (suitable for ages 3 and up!) demonstrates that it's not suitable for children in the first fucking place.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 14:51 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
I had never thought it as gambling before. Quite interesting.

Legally, it isn't.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-49074003

Quote:
The UK gambling watchdog has told MPs that it does not currently oversee the purchase of in-game content like Fifa player packs and video game loot boxes.

This is because there is no official way to monetise what is inside them.

A prize has to be either money or have monetary value in order for it to fall under gambling legislation.


Currently. The whole point of the committee that Eviltronic Arts made their 'suprise mechanics' bullshit presentation to is looking at whether the law should be changed.

Which it probably should.


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 15:09 
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Pundabaya wrote:
Eviltronic Arts

:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 16:21 
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Pundabaya wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Legally, it isn't.

Currently.

Did I stutter?


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:49 
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https://uk.ign.com/articles/2019/07/25/ ... 05931475=1

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Gambling Laws Appear to Block GTA Online Update In Over 50 Countries


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:34 
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Cor. A casino you can't play in is a big kick in the teeth

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:50 
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We were talking about this on Wednesday night!

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 17:36 
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Wonderful looking Ooblets, what I have bin wortchin for a year or so now, has announced their Epic Store exclusivity. Quite upset.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:54 
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Jim covers the increasing trend of microtransactions being added to games a couple of months after launch.

For the TL:DWers

1) It avoids negative publicity in reviews, as microtransactions are basically now critical appraisal kryptonite. Reviewers can't comment on stuff that doesn't exist.

2) When the game is rated by the ESRB, they don't get the 'contains in-app purchases' label (The ESRB do eventually update their digital guidance for this, but physical copies of course escape, and the guidance printed on their boxes then becomes misleading).

3) They get players invested in the game and committed to grinding out all the stuff they want, before adding in a convenient cash shortcut to purchase all those things with real, hard cash. (Despite the fact the players bought the product as a full price complete game upfront.)

Good watch.


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:57 
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Thanks for summing it up and saving me 45 mins

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:00 
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Hearthly wrote:
Jim covers the increasing trend of microtransactions being added to games a couple of months after launch.

For the TL:DWers

1) It avoids negative publicity in reviews, as microtransactions are basically now critical appraisal kryptonite. Reviewers can't comment on stuff that doesn't exist.

2) When the game is rated by the ESRB, they don't get the 'contains in-app purchases' label (The ESRB do eventually update their digital guidance for this, but physical copies of course escape, and the guidance printed on their boxes then becomes misleading).

3) They get players invested in the game and committed to grinding out all the stuff they want, before adding in a convenient cash shortcut to purchase all those things with real, hard cash. (Despite the fact the players bought the product as a full price complete game upfront.)

TL:DR


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:53 
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markg wrote:
TL:DR


Stop it you.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:08 
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Hearthly wrote:
Jim covers the increasing trend of microtransactions being added to games a couple of months after launch.



That does sound like a really shitty practice. Is paying for things the new cheat code? Do cheat codes even exist in games much nowadays? It's been a long time since I played a modern game.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:41 
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Tetris Effect PC is Epic exclusive. Dagnamit


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:20 
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Sir Taxalot wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
Jim covers the increasing trend of microtransactions being added to games a couple of months after launch.



That does sound like a really shitty practice. Is paying for things the new cheat code? Do cheat codes even exist in games much nowadays? It's been a long time since I played a modern game.


It's worse than that. Ubisoft introduced a 'Player Quest Designer' for the latest Assassin's Creed game (so a nice way to get people to make free content for your game....), and of course one of the first things that people did is design quests that gave loads of XP for practically zero effort, and release them onto the official download area for player generated content.

Now, this is a single player game, it doesn't affect anyone else, so what's the problem?

Well, of course, the game is notoriously grindy and level-gated, particularly in the midgame, to the extent that Ubisoft actually sell a $10 'XP Booster' for it, this is a paid add-on for a single player game that literally means you have to play less of it.

The problem with these player designed quests that give loads of XP for little effort is that it treads on Ubisoft's toes for selling their XP Boosters (in their already full price game), so all these quests were removed with Ubisoft stating that the quests 'didn't meet their high standards', and also that action may be taken against people who repeatedly upload quests that 'violate community guidelines'.

So even your single player game isn't yours any more.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:44 
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DavPaz wrote:
Tetris Effect PC is Epic exclusive. Dagnamit

I still don't get why this is an issue for people.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:58 
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Grim... wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
Tetris Effect PC is Epic exclusive. Dagnamit

I still don't get why this is an issue for people.

It's a moot point anyway, as I'm not paying £32 for Tetris. I'll wait for it to be £10


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:01 
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DavPaz wrote:
Grim... wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
Tetris Effect PC is Epic exclusive. Dagnamit

I still don't get why this is an issue for people.

It's a moot point anyway, as I'm not paying £32 for Tetris. I'll wait for it to be £10


If one has a PS4 with PS+, you can get it for about £15 at the moment as Sony are doing 25% off items bought on PSN, with a code.


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:01 
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Findus Fop wrote:
If one has a PS4 with PS+, you can get it for about £15 at the moment as Sony are doing 25% off items bought on PSN, with a code.

One does not. But thanks for looking out for me ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:08 
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DavPaz wrote:
Findus Fop wrote:
If one has a PS4 with PS+, you can get it for about £15 at the moment as Sony are doing 25% off items bought on PSN, with a code.

One does not. But thanks for looking out for me ;)


Shame

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:22 
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I'm not going to play Borderlands 3, but I am very curious about how much drama there is going to be circling Randy Pitchford between now and it's release next month.


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 13:37 
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My dutch paper has a big article on the (originally dutch) site Booking.com ... it ain;t just game companies who are nasty.. phew..

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 14:03 
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We are hoovering up new employees from Booking.com, Culture Trip and Just Eat right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 16:39 
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BECTU have released a damning study that essentially paints the games industry as the playground of a bunch of slavedriving bullies.

I would say they're right—my missus is an R&D lead at a well-known developer of AAA titles, and is patronised, bullied, belittled and uncredited constantly. I myself worked for Games Workshop* for some years, and left because the culture of bullying and dismissiveness was making me ashamed to work there (I was part of a group there who set up an LGBT forum, only to be told seniors would refuse to recognise it as it wasn't 'an important issue'.)

Grim... wrote:
We are hoovering up new employees from Booking.com, Culture Trip and Just Eat right now.


Do you need to hoover up any copywriters? I hate where I am now.


*sort of counts. It's games, and it's run by twats.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:52 
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https://twitter.com/slasher/status/1181065339230130181





https://twitter.com/slasher/status/1181442535962632193




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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:04 
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Well considering Blizzard are super invested in the Chinese market I guess it's not really that surprising.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 16:44 
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I'm getting pissed off at Forza Horizon 3. Twice now it's sent me on a 13km wild goose chase, then wanted cash money out of my pocket.

The first one was Blizzard Mountain or whatever it's called. "Hey new races here !" drive all the way there and £16. Then last night it sent me to a new race, same distance, and when I got there it wanted £13 for a racing truck to enter the event.

And it's pissing me off. I could use my credits fast travelling there, but then I'd have to waste more in game money fast travelling back so I am stuck with a 5-10 min drive each time. I'm starting to spend more fucking time going to things it wants £ for than actually playing the cunting game.

And I wouldn't mind so much but it's all just so plotted and fucking blatant. It literally pesters you and wastes your time. Time that should be fun, not a ground out slog that is nothing but a waste of time unless you're prepared to get out your debit card.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 17:37 
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There's plenty of game without the DLC, dude. You don't have to buy it


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 18:13 
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If JC is correct and he’s being led to races and only then to find out that they require paid items or an exchange of money, it’s fucking disgusting. It’s also completely irrelevant how much of the game can be accessed outside of the paid content if the game is going out of its way to waste your time just to nickel and dime the player.


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 18:22 
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"Fucking disgusting?" Slight over reaction. I don't remember the DLC being pushed on me at all. It's only mentioned if you select it as a waypoint on the map and actually drive there on purpose.


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 18:23 
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Also, you can click cancel.


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 18:27 
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DavPaz wrote:
"Fucking disgusting?" Slight over reaction.


Also, I should mention I’ve never played it. BUT IM MAD ABOUT A THING I READ.


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 18:28 
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Satsuma wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
"Fucking disgusting?" Slight over reaction.


Also, I should mention I’ve never played it. BUT IM MAD ABOUT A THING I READ.

Would it help if I told you to CALM DOWN?


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 18:33 
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To be fair, what JC describes isn’t what you describe. Perhaps JC can do an explanatory video which I can get mad about or makes him look like a dick?


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 18:53 
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I'll boot it up later and see if it's pushier than I recall


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 20:57 
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DavPaz wrote:
There's plenty of game without the DLC, dude. You don't have to buy it


There is, but I feel my enjoyment is being encroached by the game's persistence in trying to get more than the £20? I paid for it. I bought a big bundle of games this time last year for winter, but sadly my flat was uninhabitable and then come January the move began so they got packed in a box still shrink wrapped. It's only a week or so ago that I finally started it.

I see that you can spend over £100 on a new "full version" of the game. Which is probably all of it, not the small portion I ended up with. I don't mind that, but it constantly sending me to places takes away from the fun.

It's a shame, because we're talking about a seriously good game here. It's like a cross between NFSU 2 and Dirt 2, two of my fave drivey games ever, but constantly being sent to get told "oops, can't have this bit unless you get your card out!" Is fucking irritating.

It definitely takes away from the game, rather than adding to it. Being given 70% of something is lame. I kinda feel like when I went to see the second Matrix movie. "Hang on, so that's half of it and I now have to wait for the second half and then pay again?" Comes to mind.

Know what? I never saw the conclusion because I don't like being ripped off. It's a swizz.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 22:11 
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OK a follow up. So this is how this happened.. I had been playing a couple of hours and finished an area. It then opened a new one. I went there, did a couple of races and then it mentions this Blizzard Mountain. Which from where I was earlier is this far away.

Image

Now bear in mind I started the game in a shitty slow car. It was 12km+ away. The only reason I drove there was because it had snow. I like snow. Any way, this is what it looks like actually highlighted on the map.

Image

There is no mention whatsoever (I checked) that is it a paid for part of the map. You have to drive all of the way there to find that out. Then, you have to drive all of the way back from whence you came. So that is 24km which takes quite a while.

As for the race I had to pay for? I nearly had that spot on. I went back earlier (well, I spawned there) and every other car apart from the very first one wants you to spend £13 on the car pack. The only reason this happened was because I didn't quite like the look of the one I could buy in game (as, would I imagine, many others). When I looked earlier though this tank cost 600,000 CR. I had about 70,000. It probably knows this too, which is probably why they put it so far away and make you think "hey ! I wonder what that is !" only to get there and find that you're going to have to pay.

So that one was somewhat user error, but at no point in the game have I yet been close to 600k CR. That's insane.

Any way, I just played for about 1.5 hours. I noticed that every time I finished a race it showed me this.

Image

You know? kinda like as an advert between loading. I ignored it and carried on playing. I then entered a 3 race championship, won it and then it showed me yet another advert for Blizzard Mountain. As if this wasn't bad enough it then started showing me an advert for Hot Wheels ! which pissed me off so much I went off to the toilet for a wee.

When I got back? this is what was waiting for me.

Image

I didn't touch anything apart from what I pee from.

Am I being sensitive? yes, maybe a little. Am I being over sensitive and freaking out? no. It's taking the piss, even when I am in chilled out "Let's just try and ignore it" mode. It's really ruining the game.

This is why that video with the guy talking about hats and shit is just so spot on. Yes, having hats and stupid shit makes little real difference, but, at the same time it's not constantly trying to make you buy the hat as you've obviously paid for it. I don't expect all of this "extra"? content. I'm not fussed. However, what is pissing me off is its constant need to keep going on and on and fucking on about it. Seriously, they must have thought "Shit, some people won't buy it because they won't be that bothered, so let's drive them fucking crazy with it until they do !". That's how it feels. I'm trying to ignore it and pretend its not there but it's constantly mashing it in my face.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 23:47 
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Now it just sounds like you didn’t realise that Blizzard Mountain was DLC content that had been released. Ah well.

It’s a boring driving game anyway so I wouldn’t worry. Go play Split Second instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 0:13 
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I'm sorry you've had a bad experience, JC. I don't know if I'm just less sensitive to the mind games that games play with you to spend more money but whenever I get prompted to buy anything extra I just cancel it without thinking about it. It doesn't even really register as an annoyance. I do remember the car pack thing being mildly irritating but after you've played for a few hours the trickle of in-game credits becomes a veritable flood, so you'll be unlocking better cars left, right and centre.

(Too late to make a difference: Forza Horizon 4 is a much better game. Buy that instead)


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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:48 
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Yeah I'm going to get 4 after I'm done with this :)

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:20 
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Buy the Ultimate Edition though, or I fear you'll be getting a lot more of the same cobblers.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:26 
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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:09 
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I found the Ultimate Edition of FH4 to be pretty generous in terms of the content it offered for the cost. I hate the sort of shit JC is talking about above as well, so I figured I'd avoid it by just buying the most expensive version of the game to start with.

TBH I think I got good value for money out of the game overall, despite spending £90 or whatever it was on the Ultimate Edition.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:20 
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gooby pls

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 12486
Location: Shrewsbury, UK
I'm with JC on this one - if that area of the map is locked off unless you buy something, it should at least have a symbol or something on the map so that you know that it's not accessible and that you'll be asked to pony up cash for it when you drive over there.

I know *why* they don't do that, but it's still a shitty practice.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 13:26 
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Esoteric

Joined: 12th Dec, 2008
Posts: 11385
Location: On Mars as an anthropologist...
Hearthly wrote:
Buy the Ultimate Edition though, or I fear you'll be getting a lot more of the same cobblers.


Aye. I'll wait until it's a wee bit cheaper than £100 though.

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 14:15 
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Can't re-member

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 53519
Location: Liberty City
Hearthly wrote:
I found the Ultimate Edition of FH4 to be pretty generous in terms of the content it offered for the cost. I hate the sort of shit JC is talking about above as well, so I figured I'd avoid it by just buying the most expensive version of the game to start with.

TBH I think I got good value for money out of the game overall, despite spending £90 or whatever it was on the Ultimate Edition.

You’re the sort of person who is enabling the shitty practices you mostly complain about tbh

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 Post subject: Re: Awful videogame companies
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 14:28 
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Thanks

Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 12538
Thanks!

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